Proposals from the RFL

Good point. Its not just a matter of agreeing the weight change or not, its also debatable whether its to be agreed as an actual change to the building rules, or agreed in principle but not acted on until all rules are harmonised.
Given the lead-in time for actual rule changes to come into force, perhaps its worth broadening the discussion now to thrash out everything that needs to be changed. Not necessarily to reach a final concensus- although that would be good- but at least to get a feel for the scope of the problem and likely sticking points. There doesnt seem to be too much problem with 13.6kg as a feather limit from a UK point of view, but how will US builders respond to the prospect of conforming to our lower limits on gas pressure for example?
So, at the moment we have a couple of issues to consider, do we want the higher weight limit for feathers and if we do, do we want it implemented now or agreed in principle as part of an ongoing process to create an international rule set? And to really get the harmonisation ball rolling perhaps David Calkin can summarise all the current differences in the various rule sets, so that we can see the real shape of the problem?

My personal opinion is that its going to take a VERY long time to be able to get all the rules agreed and set to go, and until thats done there wont be many people traveling to world to fight.
In that case, there is no need to up the weight limit until people are fighting abroad more often I.E when all the rules are set.

We also have atleast 2/3 new robots that are/about to be built but are not sure whether to build to 13.6kg or 12kg as it will take a while to get them finished.

Hm... Well, being of the few US builders who reads and actually posts in here I think I will pipe in and say my 2 cents on this from a view point that is over the pond...

I personally think the change is a good idea. All of our bots will stay the same while you get to add a little weight. We will be able to come over to fight with you and you can come over here to fight with us. I dont understand how this is a bad thing.

- I saw a post about money... I am a 21year old guy that has 2 jobs, I just got my own place, I have payments up the wazoo and very little free time. But I build cuz it is something that I love to do. As I think is the one big reason we all do it! We are not in it for the money because lord knows we spend WAY more than we put into it, so at the end of the day we all do it because we like it and it is fun! I cant think of anything more fun (well I can, but not bot related) than going to a different country and fighting with different bots and meeting new people. That to me would be amazing! I would like very much to make a out of country botn trip this next year. Sure I will save all year and make it a vacation/bot trip, but I would love to do it!!

- is 1.6kg really THAT much? Like I posted in my forum when they were talking about the 33lb change. Whats the big deal (3lb to us is not much)? Keep the same robot but change it a little. Add another batt, a 2nd air tank, make some attachments for whatever robot you fight, or hell... Keep the robot the same. 1.6kg to me, doesnt seem very much. And heck, when your current robot gets killed then just build to the full weight limit.

- I support this idea for the simple fact that I would like to see you all come over here and I would like to come to some of your events. I wana see the cool flippers and the neat things you all build. And im sure you all would like to take a peek at some of our famous bots. With a set of rules, at least weight rules it makes it that much more easy. . .

I dont mean to offend or anything. A few of you know me and talk to me, so they can vouch that I am a chill guy. I am just really believe that this is a good thing. 15kb might have been alot to change, but the 13.6 is totally do-able. Hope you all agree! And I hope to see you all in 2008!!!!!!!

~Chad

- is 1.6kg really THAT much?

Yes it is. it is more than a 13% increase in weight, which is not something to sneeze at.

The weight is not really the issue though (at least not anymore for the most of us), it is the time-frame and all the other regulations that need to be synchronised.

just wanted to point out.... this has happened before.
robots were built to 80kg, then the limit raised to 100kg for various reasons. Razer and Chaos2 never took the full weight allowance but did exceed 80kg with some tweeks.

I attened the last event against 12kg bots with 6 robots, 2 of them 12kg, 1 of them 10.8kg, 1 other was 9kg, another 6.6kg and my last one 5kg. sure, its a disadvantage to have less weight, as proven by the multiple beatings taken by the lighter robots, but if we went to 13.6kg, there is no reason not to enter 12kg machines, or 5kg even! (no hobbyweight class at that event)

all im saying is, look back at when robot wars went up to 100kg. was it a good move? i think so.

I support this change, even though I know it will mean even higher cost to me as ill be even sillier now. The increase cannot happen soon enough, and to be honest, if event organizers agreed to run 13.6kg now on an individual event basis, the rules could catch up later. plus, can we clarify, 13.6kg empty of gas? limit on gas amount stays 600g? or goes up too?

Plus it would mean some robots out there would actually be legal for the first time ever, and chubby machines incapable of getting under 12kg for the last few years could fight for real, if they had the bottle for it.

As james said if the weight is to change it needs to change asap. i am one of many builders that are currently working on a robot. the extra 1.6kg makes a massive differece to how the robot will be made.

Being honest i dont think that uping the limit is a good thing. it just makes a more extreme version of what we all ready have which isnt good for builders costs or attracting newbies to start up in the sport. Ive spoken to a couple of people and they have all more or less said that robot combat is dying. simply because of the super spinners and super boxes being boring and haveing nothing new. it makes it very difficult to build a competertive machine thats different. all have said Something needs to change but the weight isnt one of them. on the other hand it does allow for international compertition yay.

I think its an excellent idea to raise to 13.6kg.

Even if we Europeans go unified weight, non of our pneumatic using machine can compete in any US event. To put it simple, its a bunch of other rules that make the conversion rather impossible in an excisting machine.

Mike knows what the troubles are.

That I will agree on with Mario. It would be awesome if you all could make a push on the RFL to change the Pneu rules!!!

~Chad

And now that I think about it I would like to make a call out to the UK builders.

If the RFL is making a push to change the weight I think you all, the FRA... Should make a push to change our (the RFL) rules regarding pneumatics. Mario is correct, even if the weight was the same the difference in the Pneu rules would be a big stretch to allow you to compete here. For example, we weigh in with a full tank, not dry like you all do. That weight alone could put you all over weight.

So I ask this. Make a petition for the RFL to change its pneu rules to clone yours. Do it for the same reason they want to change the weight so we all can play under one same-ish rule set. Ok, I will get off the soap box now and get back to work :-).

~Chad :-)