Pneumatic

Mister Woody/Mario and anybody else who knows about pneu stuff. Now that Rocket (60lb Light weight) is getting built I am looking forward to the next bot. I REALLY want to get a feather weight FP flipper going. Something that can flip another feather a minimum of 6 feet in the air and be really compact; the hardest thing that I have had to deal with is the size issue! I can get all the parts and everything into an acceptable weight range, but then when I go to build a robot around it, the bot ends up being MASSIVE due to the size of the tank, buffer and valve and fittings. I think I can probably get Mister Mario to build me a system which has a manifold/buffer tank which will allow for some space and weight savings. And then I can mount the tank and use a flex hose to save space, but then there is the valve problem. The Burket (or whatever the standard valves name is) is big and heavy! Anybody know of another valve that is able to take FP but yet is smaller than the burket?
Thanks for the help guys. I will post pictures as parts get made for Rocket.

ram/buffer/valve in one. Ill talk to you on msn or send you an e-mail. Will be awsome if you can get it to work.

Wow... That is some cool stuff Dave! Gotta see what Mario could do about that one. Thanks

That was what I tried to tell you about, Chad

Well heck... That kind o thing you really need a picture to understand. LoL... But that could be cool. Can ya make it happen?

Dave ...Any pics that Ive sent you remain my intellectual property.:)

Has anybody built anything like that yet? Or is it still just a drawing? If it were put into a CAD then I could have it made local.

lol twas my picture, i drew it :P

Alan showed me the idea a few months ago, i started one, but thought it was abit to powerful for current arenas.

I think an Aussie did the idea a year or two ago for a featherweight. It broke its 20mm ali ram endcap. aparently.

pretty sure i asked mike lambert about the legallity of exactly this in a featherweight last year.
can be done, low pressure tester has been done, but was in that green nylon stuff so couldnt do too much with it...
Id actually not planned to have the valve integral, but mike suggested it when I described the all in one concept.
The test worked the same as any other system, but was real small.

Design pics of what youve done would be nice.

I think an Aussie did the idea a year or two ago for a featherweight. It broke its 20mm ali ram endcap. aparently.

it just snapped the weld off the front cap and blew it out the front fence lol. they havent touched it since. but the idea works. and works damn well

If anybody has pictures or a detailed description can you please put them up? I am trying to get a CAD of this thing going so I can have Mario or myself build it. I would prefer to have Mario build it, but with his house situation I might have to have a shop build it here. He€™s got to spend time on his house which I don€™t want to take him away from. I would like to have it going by RoboGames, but it all depends on the Ram€¦

Ok, did a little CAD work today. 2.5b x 3s... 3/16 and 1/4 walls... Thicker on the top and bottom... All that is left is the bottom area where the valve thing a magie goes... Pictures are here.

-http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4662227http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4662227
-http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4662162http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4662162
-http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4662161http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4662161

Talk to me... Help is needed! :)

That is a very interesting concept. I cant wait to see how the valve will work.

Your doing fine Chad :)

Oh! ....Dont forget the ram vent holes in the top plate.

(Message edited by woody on February 02, 2007)

There will be loads of flow thru the buffer transfer ports and into the rams 60mm base port .... assuming that the simple valve works as envisaged.
Hopefully Ill get time to chat with you this afternoon / evening ( UK time )about the valve concept.

Woops.. that would help. Here is a cut away with the vent holes addd.
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4665231http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4665231

All but for the Valve part I think it is done... Weight is about 8 pounds. . . Tiz 3/16, 1/4, and 3/8 walls... I am sure I can loose some weight but done wana take stuff away till I hear from the brains in here :)

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4671060http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4671060

Im ahead guys, the buffer/ram/top are only 2 parts, all ali.

The raw material is aquired.

This ram will look like a ali billet with a few holes in it....

Hey Mario... Shoot me a mail, I am at the airport now going to see my little woman for the weekend in CA and will not be on the computer much if at all. Plus Sunday is the SuperBowl!!!
I wana get to work on the list for ya so I can start to get the parts. Chad-at-teamwazio-dot-com. Have a good weekend all!

Chad im impressed. Keep up the good work. Out of interest what travel have you put onto the base piston? (I.E. How far does it have to travel from closed to fully open to fire the ram?)

An approx optimal clearance would be Radius x Radius of the base port divided by the Diameter of the base port.
This would give the same cross sectional area for flow... between the base piston and the port ... as the port orifice itself has.

what woody said :)

Idealy it would be 15 mm in Chads ram.
But the flow is rather huge, so Ill limit it to 8mm. Still gives the surface let trough of 12+ Burkert valves

You also get a fair bit of wasted co2 with a big clearance ....as all the gas under the valve is vented.
So as Mario pointed out there needs to be a sensible compromise between ultimate flow , required performance and gas consumption.

(Message edited by woody on February 05, 2007)

Looking for a small 2/2 valve for this thing... Anybody has something that would be up to the task?

http://www.fas.ch/eCatFASBin/eCatFAS.dll/PrintENTCATALOGUE?ID_ENT_CAT=1105&ID_ENT_CAT_PUIS_ BOB=1063http://www.fas.ch/eCatFASBin/eCatFAS...CAT=1105&ID_EN T_CAT_PUIS_BOB=1063

http://www.fas.ch/eCatFASBin/eCatFAS.dll/PrintENTCATALOGUE?ID_ENT_CAT=1105&ID_ENT_CAT_PUIS_ BOB=1063http://www.fas.ch/eCatFASBin/eCatFAS...CAT=1105&ID_EN T_CAT_PUIS_BOB=1063

The valve is rated for 60 bar .. with an A.C. Coil ...youll need to overvolted a D.C. coil to operate it ..... perhaps the 6v option would be best.

Got some work done on the ant today... Self rights and flips alot better with the new tube that I got. Still only at 90PSI when the max is 145PSI. New videos and pictures.
- http://www.teamwazio.com/bots/getflippen.phphttp://www.teamwazio.com/bots/getflippen.php

How would a Burkert 2200 or 2400 valve go for releasing the pressure from a 70 * 100 mm ram? Do you know the mass of these? I am having trouble finding a spec sheet in English.

I did find the mass of the type 2400 . 1.2 kg for the 1/4 bsp.
the 2200 is 1.22 kg in its 2 versions.

The 5404 still beats that by a long way with its 700 grams

Other possibility is the type 0255, still 600 grams.

Philip, just use the 2 1/2 bsp holes as inlets with the known 5404s and vent trough a 1mm hole, like most feathers do. ;)

You might want to consider a NOS solenoid......this isnt a recommendation ......just a suggestion.:)
http://www.mpsracing.com/products/NOS/no01w.asphttp://www.mpsracing.com/products/NOS/no01w.asp

Thanks for the information, gentlemen.

This link contains both 2/2 and 3/2 valves rated for high pressure @ 0.3kg.
http://www.ventiltechnik.de/pages/en/ourproducts/standardvalvetypes/directacting.htmlhttp://www.ventiltechnik.de/pages/en...s/directacting .html

Took my ant up to 100PSI today. Still have 45 more PSI to go till I get to its max :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSo606WXYqAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSo606WXYqA

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/docs/docDownload.aspx?guid=C17DAF0F-8D8C-45BF-B01E-3CB7FC25D3D7&webtag=CJRChttp://forums.delphiforums.com/n/doc...0F-8D8C-45BF-B 01E-3CB7FC25D3D7&webtag=CJRC

here is a rather cool custom ball valve :)

I make my on burkert style Valve. This thing works fine. I think, that the buffer-ram-valve combo would be the next big step in pneumatic

http://album.roboteers.org/thumbnails.php?album=28http://album.roboteers.org/thumbnails.php?album=28

http://forum.roboteers.org/thread.php?threadid=3595&sid=ec16acf2502d2041e1e3b 674ea26ab1bhttp://forum.roboteers.org/thread.ph...2d2041e1e3b674 ea26ab1b

Very nice Dirk ...... Ive followed the valves progress in your build thread.:)

Oh! and a BIG thank you for your help with translating on the German Forum ..... The Google translation leaves a lot to be desired!.

Woody

http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/pneu.htmhttp://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/pneu.htm

(Message edited by woody on February 11, 2007)

very cool!!!

@woody: Try http://dict.leo.orghttp://dict.leo.org .For translations german english I find it a lot better than google and bablefish.

@Dirk: That is so sweet. Too bad the solenoid is still so big. :)