How could I Improve pt 2

The advice I wanna gave you Ben is to aim for quality rather than quantity. Unless you love to design as much robots you can in as little time possible I dont see the point of a VERY new vapourboteer like you owning 17 robots while you havent even had the chance to use a single one of them yet. Throw in the fact that even the biggest majors only ask you to enter 8 robots and I see some serious overkill.

While your robots are seriously improving (though theres still 1 or 2 out there that have some majors flaws :proud:), they are mediocer at best and I feel they could be a whole lot better if youd just concentrate on about 8 of them. If you had spent the same amount of time it took you to come up with 17 robots in perfecting just 8 of them, you would be a way more serious contender in the game of vapourbots :proud:

I can see you have the passion and youre certainly learning, you just need a bit more direction :proud:

for informations sake, those nice blades your quoting are hardern steel which was banned in series 3 of robot wars and their still banned (as far as im aware)

LMAO

Martjin, do i detect you are a tad jealous

Ben, DONT start. :P

Ben, I dont think Martijn is jealous, just a lot more experienced than you, or me, or quite a few other people.

whos this Martjin you speak of?

Im giving you genuine advice here Ben, itd be a real pity if say a year from now, youd own 50+ vapourbots of which only perhaps 8 ever saw the arena, al of them with mediocer succes here and there.

My aim is to concentrate on a small group of robots and make them as good as possible with all my efforts. Using that tactic I can now proudly say that 100% of my robots have made it to a heat final at least once. All my robots save for 1 have either won at least 1 heat or at least 1 minor. I can say Ive won 4+ minors and even 1 major. There is no award for most robots on 1 team sadly. Jealous? I think not :wink:


What Im saying is that youre spreading your vapourbot making skills (which are still that of a newbie, growing or not) too thinly over too much robots, of which most will never see the arena anyway. You have 17 robots now! If you would for example spend the time you WOULD have spend on designing your 18th robot on improving your 1st one, youll be left with an improved robot that might actually do well rather than yet another robot that would never see the arena.

I agree with Martijn here, very well put Mr. Flying Dutchman. :proud: As a matter of fact, your post has made me decide to add my own two cents to this issue, something you havent covered.

Ben, you dont HAVE to have a maximum of 8 vapourbots, you are quite welcome to have as many as you want, but the main thing here is, like Martijn said, to put QUALITY into your design. While some other people such as Alex Holt and myself currently have a few more than 8 vapourbots, weve taken much care into designing each and every one of them, and theyve had their share of success on the circuit.

With you it seems that youre mostly just putting together some stats and hoping that it will work. While some creativeness does leak out from your quite capable mind (the spikes on the top of Robo-Hedgehog for example), you need to better exert that creativeness. Think of what will work and what wont, and come up with something.

Do some research, ask questions, and put that awesome mind of yours to work, Ben. :proud:

quote:

While some other people such as Alex Holt and myself currently have a few more than 8 vapourbots, weve taken much care into designing each and every one of them, and theyve had their share of success on the circuit.

Well yeah, but youve been here quite a while, my point is that making over 1 vapour a day is a bad idea in terms of quality.

What I forgot to mention is what this means for youre improvement. What I see here is you give is Robo-Animal 1, 2 and 3 on one day, get a few words of advice, and rather than actually dig into that advice you give us Robo-Animal 4, 5 and 6 the next day.

If I had no faith in you I wouldnt bother giving this advice, but the fact is youre designing quite alot of robots and probably dont realize (being new to this and all) most of them will never really shine.

Like I said, if you just enjoy making lotsa new robots, Im not stopping you.

I just need to release my creativity
I just want to say That was my idea
Or thats my robot, the one that has just won E.O.T.R or Mechanical Noise or C&B3

quote:

I just need to release my creativity
Ok, if you have 1001 ideas in your head and want to realize all of them, I wont stop you. If the most important part of this game is to do just that, than be my guest and go ahead. I must add this is really comon for people your age :)

quote:

I just want to say That was my idea
You can still say that even if youd take my advice. Only with my advice they will be realized in a better, more thought out way. Like I said, if you wish to realize ALL your ideas, please continue the way youre going now. Just remember most of this ideas will never shine outside the stats database.

quote:

Or thats my robot, the one that has just won E.O.T.R or Mechanical Noise or C&B3
Ah, heres the one thing where you totally miss the point. You see, if youd concentrate on making GOOD robots rather than LOTSA robots, odds youll ever win a tournament like that will rise drastically. That was what my advice was all about.

My robots are good!:angry:

Yes, of course you say theyre good. Thing is, Ben, you enter these bots into tournaments where other people decide which bot is better and in which situation. They have very different opinions than yours, and are very experienced in their decisions. To put it straight, I doubt most tournament writers would think that much of the bots you claim to be good.

Please, Ben, youre not going in a good direction. Do us a favour, and listen to more advice.

easy boy, I never said they were bad, geez

what I have been trying to say in a completely polite way all night is the following, read along

1) Out of the 20+ robots youll soon have, over 50% may never see the arena.

2) Perhaps you have now spend 16 hours to make 17 robots (that time-frame is completely random) IF you would have spend that same amount of time to make 8 robots, you could:
a) Actually USE all of your robots
b) Spend more time on each robot, perfecting them along the way.

What I see now in your squad is that you kinda know what youre doing but still need some direction, things like paintball guns, 3 mm titanium armour, claiming a spike, 2 saws and a paintball gun offer good weaponsynergy (all 3 weapons are nearly useless), using hardened steel blades or I forget, will post later, forgetting a spinners rpm are just some things that show you have some things to learn, which is perfectly normal for someone as new as you are.

For one thing you are BETTER than most people who are as new as you. Now dont go all defensive and just think of the advantages of what I just said.

Ben, read our entire posts. Were trying to HELP you not put you down, as Martijn explained.

Right. Throwing this out here now, some very rough stats here:

----

Troubloon 6 (previously Aftershock)

Shape: Box wedge with inverted wedge at rear.

Weight: 100kg

Armour: 7.5mm Titanium Vanadium alloy with a 4mm polycarbonate laminate. The side skirts are made of 5mm Grade 5 titanium.

Drive: 2 D-Pack motors @ 24v

Power: 8 A123 Li-Ion packs, should get in the realm of 24v

Motivation: 2WD, the usual urethane rubber-pressed titanium wheels.

Ground Clearance: 0mm at front wedge under the front disc, the discs clearance is 10mm. The sides have 15mm ground clearance without skirts but 0 mm when skirted. The rear is 25mm.

Rough dimensions in CM = 85 x 65 x 15

Weaponry: Two horizontal 15kg titanium spinning discs run by a separate D-Pack motor each @ 24v. They spin at 2000rpm and dish out around 55kJ each. Will calculate properly later. The thing is that the front disc is as close to the ground as possible while the rear one is as high up as can be so when Troubloon is flipped, the rear one gets close to the ground.

Srimech: Invertible.

----

ROUGH WEIGHT CHECK
Armour/Chassis = ~25kg
Motors = 7.8kg (I think, I seem to recall the motor weigh 3.9kg each)
Batteries = 5.6kg
Wheels, gears, and other drivetrain stuff = ~6.6kg
Weaponry and power = ~45kg
Rest = ~10kg
----

Pointers and constructive criticism are appreciated. Destructive criticism will earn you a Hardox mace to the head. :P

(Message edited by kodster on August 06, 2008)

Dear Kody,

Given the data supplied I do not believe that the armour and chassis together weigh 25kg. could you please check your numbers again?

Is that better Martyn?


(Message edited by leorcc on August 07, 2008)

Leo, i hate to sound bitchy but, you are someone who has built an actual robot, and you are, our moderator, how about saying something a little more helpful than quote:

no way that that armour and chassis weigh 25kg.

Eh, I didnt take that as too rude. Mkay, Leo, lets see, I can lessen the armour but that will still be more than 25kg...how about I downgrade the weaponry...

MODIFICATIONS

Armour: 6mm Ti/V alloy with a 3mm polycarbonate laminate

Chassis: 3mm steel ladder

Weaponry: Two horizontal 12.5kg titanium spinning discs run by a separate D-Pack motor each @ 24v. They spin at 2000rpm and dish out around 50kJ each. Will calculate properly later. The thing is that the front disc is as close to the ground as possible while the rear one is as high up as can be so when Troubloon is flipped, the rear one gets close to the ground.

WEIGHT CHECK MODIFICATION

Armour/Chassis = ~30kg?

Weaponry and power = ~40kg

All right?

quote:

Chassis: 3mm steel ladder
Able to explain this further?

Also, 4 D-Pack motors are going to fry those batteries, they can easily pull 500amps each... A123s are only good for a peak of around 120amps and constant 60amps. To satisfy your hungry motors, youll want at least 20 packs (maybe more) in parallel. Advice, run a single D-pack for the weapons, and replace the drives with S28-400 magmotors.

Yes, steel ladder chassis is a type of body-on-frame, on which the body is mounted to a rigid frame which supports the drivetrain. Its used in automobiles and is quite successful.

As for the rest, I will take your advice except...quote:

run a single D-pack for the weaponsThis tells me you think Im running the discs as one. Theyre separate.

Once you clear that up for me, Ill sort the stats out, all righty?

I am now going to concentrate on improving my vapours, so if my robots have any flaws please tell me

You kinda using the steel ladder chassis in a fashion that its something new or special. In the end, its a chassis, regardless of construction technique. Ladder & Space frames are used in bots quiet a lot, but in the end, they are all coined under the same name, chassis. Storm 2 uses a ladder chassis, Warhead uses space frame, Firestorm uses monocoque.

If you have a sectional frame with armor bolted on, its a chassis, if your armor is all welded together to form the body, its a monocoque :P

Link for ya http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...hassis.htmhere

Martyn, sorry but I dont agree. Specially Kody should know better than come up with 25kg for armour and chassis with a robot that size and armour that thick. I for one think that Kody doesnt need more help than that, he will do fine by number crunching and changing stats on his own. Its not like he started building vapours 2 weeks ago.

@kody, can you make me a drawing of the shape of Troubloon 6? It would give me a better insight in the shape and therefore the weight that goes along with it.

quote:

I am now going to concentrate on improving my vapours, so if my robots have any flaws please tell me

Itd be alot more effective if youd pick your best/most precious/most creative/favourite etc vapourbots among your squad. A diverse team of axes/spinners/flippers/rammers/crushers etc would be nice, but dont forget its YOUR team :wink:
once you decided the core members of your team, itd be easier for people to help you

Leo - http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk11/ZlayerzInc/TroubloonConcept.pnghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...oonConcept.png
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk11/ZlayerzInc/TroubloonConcept2.pnghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...onConcept2.png

you realise those skirts wont look as good once inverted right? :wink:

besides that, LOVELY concept

Right: Core members

Robo-Hedgehog
Robo-Goat
Robo-Bee
Robo-Owl
Robo-Tiger
Robo-Whale
Robo-Mosquito
Robo-Platypus

Hope this pleases you

i hope this pleases you? is that like an offering to the vapourbot god Leosus whom moderates this land

No, it is an offering to the 2 vapurbot gods, Leosus and Kodus

quote:

Dear Kody,

Given the data supplied I do not believe that the armour and chassis together weigh 25kg. could you please check your numbers again?

Is that better Martyn?

Leo please do not patronize me, i am not an idiot.

Ben, have you thought of making your debut in a grunge match, say against one of Kodys machines :wink:

Martyn, your right that was not called for. I apologize.

quote:

No, it is an offering to the 2 vapurbot gods, Leosus and Kodus

There is no god, just men of madness.

quote:

Leo - http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk11/ZlayerzInc/TroubloonConcept.pnghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...oonConcept.png
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk11/ZlayerzInc/TroubloonConcept2.pnghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk11/ZlayerzInc/TroubloonConcept2.png

It looks like youve just drawn that as adjoining surfaces with the old solid here an there to make a conceptual render. Wanna give a shot at doing individual solid panels, chassis and doing a weight calculation via Rhinos Volume Calculator? Will give you a reasonably accurate weight on your robot then :)

Basically you just select each panel then, run the volume tool on it, which should give you the volume. Now if you follow good practises, and draw 1:1 in mm (Not CM or M :proud:) you just times the material density against the volume you should get your weight.

EG:
Volume * Density (kg/m^3) / 1000000 = Weight
1283.000 mm^3 x 2768 (Aluminium) / 1000000 = 3.551344kg

Now the / 1000000 part comes into it because I use densities in kg/m^3 since I found them http://robots.freehostia.com/Materials/Materials.html here And Im just too lazy to work it out at g/mm^3 :proud:

quote:


There is no god, just men of madness. Very good answer.

I usually do kg/dm3 since i then already have the kg weight immediately.

Nice idea David, wonder if Kody agrees

When I get time to rebuild my vaporbot website, will be looking at knocking up a simple volume - weight calculators, drive train calculator and a battery calculator.

what did Kody do this time?:P

Nothing just thought it would be interesting if me and kody had a battle, or maybe we could have a 4-person Axe-Attack, Id enter Robo-Hedgehog

Kodys got Intriguer, an axe robot which is REALLY good, so best advice Ben, coming from the writer of E.O.T.R.4, the competition the first, weaker Intrigue won...dont challenge him :proud:

(Message edited by paulc on August 08, 2008)