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There are two problems with the basic ideas of robot building talks so far for me.
I dont drink, and I have special diet needs due to allergies.
This makes the dinner/discussion or a pub talk not realy feasible for me.
Just my input before it gets too developed.
I think I see what fluppet is saying here actually, not so much what motor, what battery as most roboteers-to-be know the basics. Its more a case of I have wheels this big, how do I best join them to the motor.
Am I right here fluppet?
This is something I at first didnt know either, and I learnt by attending events, and working in a machine shop. The best way to learn to to have something not work, as you say, its better it didnt work for someone else, and you learn about it from them.
Roger: if it helps, I dont drink either - although that I spend so much of my time in pubs is probably an indication that Im weird rather than that you should necessarily feel obliged (fizzy drinks in pubs are expensive, after all). I appreciate that dining constraints are awkward - although I suspect you can get away with bringing something with you to a pub (especially outdoors) more easily than an official restaurant, especially if there are a crowd of us making them money.
Not that I want to put you off lecturing instead!
James - pretty much, yes. Im expecting to get royally slaughtered with my first few robots, but reinventing the wheel while trying to iron out problems seems pointless (and expensive). Overengineer everything is all very well, but there are trade-offs, and people can tell me whats *really* strong enough, whats too heavy, whats impossible to repair once it breaks, and what just doesnt work. If Ive got an engineering problem, I can come up with *a* solution on my own, but if someone else has already field tested the possible solutions to see what works that knowledge is going to be more useful than any mental experiment I can do.
Plus of course the books I have which try to go into details are out of date; whats solid enough in a season 2 robot would be scrap metal today. Watching the Hypno DVD, its scary just how slowly the disk ran when it first appeared. Current knowledge of the state of the art matters a lot. If I have a robot which goes in against Typhoon2/Razer/WBC/Gravity/TaN/Storm2 I expect it to lose, but if I cant at least re-use most of the bits after Ive swept them out of the arena then Ive built it badly.
It used to be said drive it into a brick wall then fix what breaks; these days I suspect if you cant give your robot a fair whack from a sledgehammer you should plan to be taking most of it home in a Dyson.
Im not necessarily at the how do I fit this size wheel to this shaft stage (which might be a bit specific to an individual bot), but there are plenty of things which people have learnt which can be generally applied to lots of designs.
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Fluppet
If I have a robot which goes in against Typhoon2/Razer/WBC/Gravity/TaN/Storm2 I expect it to lose
A quick guide on how to beat....
typhoon 2, build storm 2
Razer, build Razer
WBC, build dead metal
Gravity, build a parachute
TAN, build sunblock
storm 2, build typhoon 2.
simple eh?
there is one unbeatable robot however, Napalm, it beats itself before you get chance to.
if you want to beat storm 2 build typhoon 2, and if you want to beat typhoon 2 build storm 2. How does that work then? :)
Joe Townsend
Harsh, but fair. :-) Is team Napalm still going? (Theyre local to me, so I should be supportive.)
Youve lost me on the sunscreen. (Other than that we should wear it, according to a popular beat combo.)
Ive got my pet theories on beating things (mostly posted elsewhere on this forum, in Typhoon2s case), but given that my first robot is unlikely to be the design Id build if I felt I knew what I was doing, losing is kind of a designed-in feature, and Ill settle for not trashed.
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Fluppet
Youre saying that to beat Typhoon 2 you build Storm 2, and to beat Storm 2 you build Typhoon 2.
Is it just me or is that a bit of a circular argument?
exactly.... its the immovable object meets unstopable force arguement.
in otherword a witty addaption of the chicken and egg quandry.
to make sure you do not get damaged by a TAN, use sunscreen.... ah, nevermind.
(mental note, do not become a comedian)
Eugh. I got the Storm/Typhoon2 circular reference (having decided it wasnt a spoiler :-) ) but the TaN thing is just painful.
Does this mean that TaN is particularly weak when Storm, Typhoon or Tornado are in the arena?
(Unless the LED is very bright, of course. Wow - back on topic!)
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Fluppet
lol.
from another direction, I saw TAN and storm 2 in the arena together at Brighton, excellent stuff.
It was very interesting to see the number of robots with activation lights too, didnt realize there were so many already.
From the point of view of the lecturer, a pub room is not the ideal venue, too many potential distractions.
Trying to explain things to about 40 people using sketches drawn on a note book is not good.
A high school lecture room is much better proposition, and probably not too expensive.
It has the right environment in which to give a lecture, quiet and with the right lighting and space to lay out components to look at, plus a blackboard for diagrams.
I would be much happier using a college or school room somewhere not too far away from me on a weekend afternoon than in a pub some evening with background disco music or a football match on the big TV in the next room.
I feel that the roboteers would learn much more in the right venue and get their moneys worth.
We could arrange that the various lecturers could give regional talks.
This would save them a lot of travelling time and expense.
Sounds good. The only reason Id really been thinking in terms of a pub is to fit it in around a fighting event - fights both days over the weekend, do a talk on the Saturday night. However Id been thinking of fewer people (perhaps ten or so at most) and a sufficiently quiet pub (which relies on local knowledge and luck) - and its been suggested that roboteers might be too busy on the night in the middle of a tournament anyway.
Its true that if someone is willing to prepare stuff to show off, and is happy to take separate time out of their schedule during non-competing time, then a proper teaching room or similar should allow a talk to be less interrupted. If held in the evening after the event, it might be possible to re-use a fighting venue; if someone could provide an easel and blackboard or drawing pad, Debenhams sports hall for example - with the seating set up - would work pretty well so long as no-one was hammering away in the pits. RAF hangars might be a bit nippy though.
So, yes; I was only thinking of an informal chat to few people in a quiet corner of an establishment where other roboteers were already meeting post-event, so as to detract from the volunteers schedule as little as possible. If someones on for giving a longer, better prepared talk to more people than I was anticipating, somewhere non-publike *would* be better.
If someone arranges it, Ill certainly come along - although I cant deny that it would be slightly more appealing if it *can* be fitted in with a day or two of fights. (Incidentally, Im not going to be able to make Enginuity should lectures happen there.)
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Fluppet
In Belgium so far we have had our socials-lectures-information exchanges in local pubs where there is no music being played, in the Netherlands we have had different locations and some were horrific and some were ideal.
But Rogers suggestion is the best one: get a location where there is nothing else to distract people, bring on some refreshments that are not distracting either (alcohol-free and foodstuff that everyone would tolerate) and start the talks.
Having this get-together in a school or in another clubs rooms or building could also guarantee parking space, loading space and room enough for displays and such for better explanations and maybe some hands-on examinations. Portable computers with pictures and movies may be added, and a large drawingboard would be nice. Call it a seminar and you can do it in a seperate room at an event.
Speaking of safety (always my concern): a crowded pub with lots of inbibed persons is not exactly safe in my opinion. Spaceous rooms with big windows and clear exit ways in combination with lots of sober persons are favorable.
(Yes, it seems to become popular to out oneselfs physical problems: due to health issues I cannot drink alcohol, should not eat certain foodstuffs and can not tolerate tobacco smoke and loud music/shouting but that does not keep me out of pubs and having a great time anyway... I just suffer and endure. When it gets too late in the evening (or too early in the morning) I faint. Im also half-deaf, half-blind, morhpologically challenged, have no sense of balance whatsoever (which does not keep me off a horse or a motor bike for very long in any case) and am a hopeless nitpicker.)
Well said - although re. the safety, if we *were* going to do this in a pub I was presuming that either the robot wouldnt be somewhere where the public can trip over it (as Roger suggested, space to set it out in a schoolroom would be better). Either that or that the robot(s) could be hauled out of cars at the end of the talk and people could decamp to the outside of the establishment - which wouldnt require so much organisation with a landlord, and mightnt be antisocial for a pub with outside tables. Getting beer spilt inside a robot isnt my idea of fun either, although I understood that some social meets took this risk.
Does rely on local knowledge of a quiet pub with a sympathetic landlord and small chance of rabble autodarwinating themselves on the machines. Im presuming that someone organising would know somewhere (I can name some suitable pubs, but not anywhere obvious for an event...); but just turning up at a pub without prior knowledge is a recipe for disaster.
I agree about the smoke/noise and enduring, but right now what Im enduring is mostly still being at work. :-)
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Fluppet
well i have personnally already given talks to my school mates with typhoon 2 sitting at the front of the class
true it was mostly about the robot and how strong things were etc however it did give them an insight into the robot.
Its really not that hard, if you can go on national tv with your robot then a room full of people should be easy (thats my way of looking at it)
I agree that a classroom type environment is the best place for people to actually take in what is being said as there are no distractions. How about it being on the last day of competition at an event (should it go over a few days), in the evening so that the interested parties have seen the robots in action and then they get to see what makes em work and how things are put together?
what about having a smallish room with chairs set up in a semi circle around the robot, the speaker gives a quick run around the robot and then anyone can then ask questions about how certain things were done etc? this could probably accomodate around 15 people max if it was to be worthwhile.
sorry im just giving random ideas as they come into my head (it might not be so good to post just after 2 hours of rugby training, but there you go)
Lol- having received about 5 concussion in the last 2 years from that bloody sport, I completely agree.
quote:
From the point of view of the lecturer, a pub room is not the ideal venue, too many potential distractions.
Especcially if the Lincs FRA socials go back to that place near Retford.... Damn nice scenary :wink:
Joking aside, the FRA meetings weve had over this way have been rather subdued affairs, not a lot of drinking as most people have to drive, and Kevs good at picking quiet corners in quiet pubs.
Just a safety issue. My feather InX 2 now requires a power light. One problem, its a Full Body Spinner! there is no physical piece which isnt moving around the chassis. The only place I can think of is on the chassis and if i get a strong enough LED it hopefully will shine under the body but im not 100% sure that would work.
Any ideas??
cut a line of holes around a radius on the body. as it spins itll tell everyone what the robots doing, and should still be visable when it stops.
feathers need leds now?
yes I am joking.....
what next? cradles links and failsafes?
when does the feather LED rule come into effect? will they be needed for debenham?
Damn, theyll even be wanting covers for sharp edges next! :)
Put your LED next to your link. If you dont have room for an LED where is the Link?
Strickly speaking the rule is already in force for FRA events
The LED light came into affect after FWSmas 2005. They were meant to be used at FWSmash2005, as was high and low pressure relief valves, but due to the sudden notice, we managed to get the rules relaxed. But from all events onwards, they will be tech checked im told that a power light etc is needed on featers.
PS - dont forget that you cant use 35mhz James. :)
Mr Stu
PS - the power LED can not be FLASHING. Personaly i cant see the prob with flashing power lights, but oh well.
Sure you mean 2004 Stu.
Thats correct Rich. And recommended colours are green/blue/yellow. which I interpret as meaning not red. Any official wording?
P.S All this info is posted in the new Coms section of FeatherWeights.org which will be updated all the time to keep everyone up to date with the various mandates from on high, amongst other things.
P.P.S the vote for the weight increase currently stands at:
12 For
28 against
4 not bothered
I reckon thats fairly conclusive, but well keep it up for another couple of days, should 17 thus-far unknown roboteers sudeenly turn up and swing the vote :-)
Eddy
i thought it took 3 months before a rule change become into effect? as the rules on the website still state that only 50kg upwards need them. The only thing i have seen stated that we need them, is on FW.org and that only came up less then a week ago. I have seen no official anoucement made by the FRA. I have no problem fitting one, but a weeks notice isnt much.
I am not cutting holes in my body for a bloody light. the only place I can put it, is next to the removable link which is situated on the chassis (like InXistence if anyone saw that), ponting down towards the floor.i shall see how effective this is when shining towards the floor in different lighting conditions etc.
Jas
Alan - Andy Kane has spoke to me, he spoke to me at Robot Crusade, and said to let all the Featherweight roboteers know about the power light change.
I agree Alan, that no official post has been made by the FRA, and i will look into that but, Im the FRA FeatherWeight Rep, and im passing information onto you through the FW.org web site and on here on the forum. im not going to bull*** you.
Andy kane has also asked me to email Sam Jones to make the change to the rules to accomadate for the power light in featherweights.
Mr Stu
Not red and not flashing they say!
Ive just fitted 2 red flashing LEDS to do the job because I thought that this was the most obviously visible option.
I suppose I should have guessed that the fine print in rules rarely displays anything resembling my obviously twisted version of logical thought ;(
Ah well I suppose it only a couple of pounds plus the P&P to replace the ones already fitted and the spares I have in the toolbox.
I trust 10mm isnt going to be deemed to big ;)
Lol. It does seem slightly silly to me. Still, red tape is a disease that no one is safe from, even the FRA it would seem :-)
Hang on, I have a red non flashing LED on both our machines and I have never had a problem.
I know the rules prohibit flashing LEDs But to be honest, Im not sure that they actualy prohibit red. No doubt Sam Jones can set us all straight on this one!
I have a nice little super powerful blue LED i think i shall use. for my LED set upo can i run it throught the same circuit as my Removable Link which is the RX supply?? cos wihtout that the robots dead. Thoughts?
Jas
There is currently no guideline on colour of the light, it has been discussed that this may become needed at a later date, but as yet weve not encountered any problems.
As Eddy says red tape is a disease, lets not make it any more complicated than it needs to be.
Mandatory power lights on featherweights will be included in version 1.2 of the rules, which are due released by May 1st.
Sam
FRA Safety Executive
There you go then.
I think it was Andy Kanes personal view when he said to me try and advise people away from Red.
No idea why to be honest? any comments?
Mr Stu
PS - im a blue person - blue LEDs all the way!!!
Maybe something to do with Red being the colour that least registers on the human opitics, and will not show up under colourd lights in an arena. Yellow, green and blue will.
Also, Crustacean has red flashing eyes.....
Finally, with the safety lights, the pressure relief valves, the failsafes, and the links all introduced into featherweights within 12 months, has anyone realized that they have quite a bit of their weight in safety, and all Rexs challenge stuff is illegal?
rexs stuff is still ok, as you dont need any PRD below 50psi, and thats the max they can go to.
but they need safety lights, failsafe and links...
these are not on the rexs rules as far as I rememeber, so we are denying entry to the robots built for his competition.
Not argueing the rules, just saying things have moved so quickly is Rex even aware he needs to rewrite his rules?
I agree James. There are alot of safety aspsects in the sport now. Can see why failsafes etc were not introduced to Rexs Rules when they first came about, eg no spinning weapins, no pneuatmics over 50psi etc, even tho 50psi with decent flow rate could still hurt if it was a spike! But i see your point, and yes they are all starting to weigh up a bit.
Mr Stu
also cost abit too!