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I am very fearful of posting suggestions to more experienced people for obvious reasons - but you did ask,
Biggest gain that I can see, would come from cutting down the time between fights (more fights, more action, crowds+teams happier etc)
Best ways of doing this and not compromising safety are -
Cut down load+unload time : new door ? 2 doors ?
Cut down arena repair time : Better floor surface ? Ban Mute ?
Only random thoughts.
Roger
Always ready for suggestions and comments.
or i wouldnt ask :)
Jonno
Jonno,
One thought that may have saved a lot of the problems with the whiteboard...If, at the begining of the event the roboteers were given a quick briefing to explain the details of how the new format was going to work, then I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided.
My two pennies worth!
Geoff.
(Still a bloody good event though, Well done!)
Good points: Great atmosphere, great battles
Bad points:
The 12-2pm show had five heavyweight fights and two featherweight fights. Thats seven in 120 minutes. Needs to be more I think
Even as a featherweight builder/fan I was a bit disappointed with the entertainment value of some featherweight fights compared to the heavyweight bouts, and the time it took to load/unload/enable six or more in the arena.
We put CHIP and microCHIP on our bench at 9.40am. We didnt get tech checked until 12.18 pm so we didnt get in the arena until 3.30pm and microCHIP only fought once all day.
How feasible would it be to put Ally or steel on the floor?
I dont think its the material thats the problem - its the edges, which obviously cant be avoided short of having a one piece floor and a *much* bigger van (read : lorry) to carry it around in, or a roll up / hinged floor that folds flat which may then cause issues with gaps in the floor and uneven layers.
Maybe if all the edges were nailed and then gaffer taped down even bots like Mute may have problems getting under it. Then again, maybe they wouldnt :proud:
-- Kev
Think the ideal floor would be panels routed at the edges, and clamped down with T-Bars all round, to produce a flat, tensioned floor.
Damage occurs when weight of a robots reaches an edge and presses down, forcing it lower than the next panel. (gaffer tape wont stop this) Clamping the joints with T-Bars running the lengh would solve this. Would need to be precise though. Changing panels could also become quicker.
I think a sprung metal floor would become an issue once damage occurs.
MDF has been tried elsewhere, but has chipboard, another completely flat cheap alternative.
just an idea ?
Have to say it was not Mute that started ripping up the floor it was Buldog breed in i think the first fight of the day you dont get away with it that easy Tony :)
i have to agree with the comments about feathers. Ive noticed at the past few events that the audience quickly becomes bored with them. I have no problems with feathers fighting (as weve been doing them for 3 yrs), but if there are heavys waiting to go in, maybe they should get priority.
just my thoughts
Yep, Bulldog Breed, EWE2 and us. We all went under the floor in the first fight. Something we have not done yet in our arena, but all the joints have supports under them and lots & lots of screws in them. Occasionaly we take a lump out of the top layer of the ply but its not too bad.
I think alot of the problems with long delays between fights was due to the arena door.
Best atmostphere at an event so far. (Ears still ringing) If theyre all like this we are in for one great year.
I agree with Mark about the arena door causing delays.
Wayne and I have been discussing this and we came up with a couple of possible systems for locking the door closed safely whilst decreasing the time needed to lock and unlock.
They were mostly Waynes ideas (hes the skilled fabricator) so I think hes going to contact you privately, Jonno.
I think the locking and unlocking of the door is a minute time (thats minute not minute :) ) in the scale of things.
Getting things slicker is one thing, but really its down to the anouncer to cover the 5 minutes, or 10 minutes it takes. 5 or 10 makes no difference, just look at the change over time at RW. RR anouncer and her assistant? at Preston were fantastic, so the crowd would really not have notice the 30 seconds saved with a new door.
Feathers not as good as heavies? insted of replacing feather fights with heavy fights, make them more interesting. put someone like crushtacian with them as a house robot to spice it up. No dmage, just ham it all up. There are too few feather fights now, dont cut them back further.
Bit of info...
Roboteers briefing
It was planned, but due to a VERY early audience entrance ( 11:15am and unexpected ) and some other issues which my team were dealing with out of our control, it didn€™t happen. I apologise for that.
Loading Door
Due to the new makrolon roof, the cables pulled in the centre posts, hence, the didn€™t fit properly all day and was a nightmare to use.
We didn€™t know how the roof would work, We have an easy fix though so it will work next time.
We have talked about having two loading doors, something which could be explored further.
Floor
We are debating about the floor, once it settles down, it is then fine like by the end of the day.
But something needs to change. Maybe we need to swap to thicker plywood, or Mdf??
We will be exploring other possibilities, hmmm, just remembered I have 12 sheets of 6mm old polycarb,
** Wonders what a makrolon floor would be like :)LOL **
My main problem is... the arena gets tighly packed into a barn when not in use, and so it is nearly imposible to work on it, away from an event.
If we had somewhere to errect it for a period of time, then we could get our ongoing problmes sorted out.
Jonno
After seeing the comments about the quality of the floor surface, The easy answer would be for the roboteers to slightly raise the front of their machines to let them clear the floor joints, shouldent make too much difference to the fights, but could drastically reduce lost time due to replaceing the floor.
Just an idea, my two pence worth.
cant you use the old tennis courts at the rolls royce place like the first event there
Its not easy David to raise the front a your machine even by a midges, sometimes it would be a major re design...and open to a flipper getting under you.
Who was the guy on the mike in the black top with Crew on it?....he was great on the mike...a good warm up guy.
Tom
Garry - bloke in charge of the entertainment company and special effects company that is now working close with Roaming Robots. A natural entertainer really :)
Mr Stu
Roaming Robots Crew
At most events it seems that one of the most avoidable delays is down to roboteers not being ready and waiting at the arena. We really need a schedule of say 4 fights an hour. Is 5 minutes load, 5 minutes fight, 5 minutes unload attainable? If not then go for 3 an hour. We should then all know what time we are due to fight, each robot should then be expected to be in a holding area 15 minutes before their alloted slot so they can sub/swap for the previous fight if necessary. Anyone failing to report to the holding area on time forfeits the battle. The RR crew do their best at a very difficult task and all to often we let them down by not being present at the right time.
How about a second loading door/bullpen for feathers as this should be easier to construct than a full blown heavy entry and would allow feather fights to be slotted in between the heavies and maybe speed things up a little.
Feathers may be seen as boring but it will not help as we move towards stronger armour, perhaps they should be restricted in this respect protect the electrics/vital components and let the rest of the bodywork take damage. We all know that damage is what makes the audience go ooooohhhhhhhh ;) I suspect that part of the problem here is making feathers visble in an arena designed to contain heavies. Perhaps a smaller side arena hosting seperate feather fights throughout the day allowing the audience to stand closer to the action would be an option and provide a side attraction when the heavies arent occupying them in the main arena.
Just a few random thoughts to ponder.
regards
Tim Jones
Perhaps a smaller side arena hosting seperate feather fights throughout the day allowing the audience to stand closer to the action would be an option and provide a side attraction when the heavies arent occupying them in the main arena.
This is what is in the planning stage for future BIG events - eg like Preston.
Mr Stu
Much better Show than expected ! thats whats needed, perhaps in a show invoirement competitors may plan the fights a little better between themselves ,a little like american wrestling,
and create a better Show as opposed to a full blown competition ,
sounds interesting Tony
Tim: Good points but I dont think the big oooh factor for the audience is just damage. In feathers yes, to make it attractive to the audience damage is good, but in heavies the sheer weight and noise and power is the big oooh factor.
As you know from a public point of view they just dont realise how big and heavy the heavyweight bots are. The noise of Thors, Terrorhurtzs etc axes, and the noise and effects of flippers like Dantomkia and Bulldog Breed (to name just 2) and the actual vibes felt through the air etc is the biggest surprise to seeing them on TV.
I dont think feathers can ever come near this sheer initial impact on the 1st time audience WOW factor.
Thats why I think 2 arenas ...1 for for feathers 1 for heavys would be good ..if the venue is suitable and all the work (and dosh)involved in setting up 2 arenas at events is feasable.
Tom
this is one reason why we are trying to get the middleweights going. The have a similar size to heavys, and still make a bang when hitting each other.
I dont think i have ever seen a feather fight come near to the excitment of a heavy fight, they just dont have the impact on the audience.
issue is money... Id build a middle weight If I could afford it... Most featherweight roboteers are just beginers, and featherweights are their learning curve... Youve got to admit that with the new breed of featherweight here, youll but having great fun at the FWS...
Quick question - was everyone in the CREW T-shirts a member of the entertainment company, or a RR crew member, or was it a mix of the two? I ask because I asked someone (at the barrier) for a word with Dominic in the pits and they helpfully said I could go in - just wondering whether it was anyone on here that let me in :proud:
-- Kev
This event certainly showed the potential for the future of the sport. We fully enjoyed it, would have liked more fights though. To speed things up maybe you could use a similar idea to Brighton Model world, when the feathers have been loaded in the heavies that are in the next fight could be put in the arena by the door and left unarmed. If it was Mute the feathers could use it as a ramp and after the fight all the feathers are removed and the heavy have only got to be armed up.
With regards to the floor, I wouldnt want to raise Mutes front off the floor, we wounldnt stand a chance of getting under anyone. The main problem we had, besides ripping the floor up, is that we were grounding all over the place. in the last fight we spent most of the fight firing the flipper trying to get of a high spot in the arena.
One thought could be to put a couple of robots in the arena a few hours before the show and let they drive round, this might showwere the problem spots are.
Adam
ewan, with feathers at the current level they are, its cost alots to bo build a decent one. You need; Speedos, NiCads, Poly/Ti etc. Middlewewights can be built in a very similar way in which the heavyweights were built, old wheelchairs, relay control etc. Alot of featherweight builders are at the stage where they want to move on to something else, but cant afford a heavy. Middleweights are a good next step for them.
yes adam, if your at a venue early, i think it would be a great idea to get mute in the arena before hand to highlight the trouble spots. Then we can go underneath and adjust the leg heights.
Black t-shirt = entertainment company
Red t-shirt = roaming robots
Yellow = me :)
jonno
Tom
Yes surprise at the size/noise of the real thing is a factor at first. It got me the same way at the first real event I attended, but that initial reaction soon wears off. In order to sustain an audience over some years other factors come into play. For a first time spectator its good enough to tear about and bounce off the walls creating loads of noise, later on they will more likely need to see good cliffhanger/well balanced/close fights between well matched machines. I guess that any weight class can produce this to an equal degree, but the lighter weights are of course more spectacular in a lighter arena.
Perhaps the crux of the matter is that if we want to be a travelling circus we need spectacle for spectators but if we want to be a sport it needs to develop to provide good close competition and for the sport to come before the audience. This does of course come back to the question of roboteers maybe needing to pay more in the way of entry fees etc instead of asking the audience to foot the bill. Do we want to be superstars or sportsmen? Do we want to be funded as a circus or as a sport?
Personally I feel that we are a bit unique in having developed almost exclusively as a spectator sport in the first instance. Perhaps we could all gain by taking a step back and spending a few years evolving without so much pressure to put on a good show
Alan
The question regarding middlwweights is basically the same. Should we develop a weight class for the audience? Is there a major cost benefit to the competitors in the middleweight class over evolving straight onto heavies is surely a better question?
Yes I would love to run a bigger machine, but given that I would really like to be able to afford a heavy, do I want to pour money into an intermediate weight class rather than saving pennies to move onto the big boys toys ;)
Most of my questions and concerns come from over 25 years spent watching various motorsports making the very same mistake of putting the live audience/TV companies before the competitors. At present we could very easily replicate all these errors in robotic combat. Why not think about evolving to allow cheap but fun competition in the arena for ourselves and avoid the rather sad spectacle of roboteers competing to see who gets to sign the most autographs ;)
I like the idea of pitting the heavies and feathers in at once (heavies deactivated obviously) as this should help the flow of fights, but... I know how nervous I sometimes am having my machine sitting in the arena for a long time prior to the 321activate, must hark back to old worries of overheating, but if the heavies are willing then it could be good to use them as arena obsacles.
I like that idea, but who said the heavies need to be deactivated :proud:...think of them as a house robot!!
There we go again testing the roboteers pockets not all of us have bottomless pockets it cost me more than enough just to go to events if it does come to entry fees i for one would have to pull gman out and maybe sell up.
Im sure events will always exist that do not require entry fees, whatever happens with some organizers. I think its difficult to justify one organizer paying fuel, hotel and appearance fee when other pay nothing and charge you to enter.
Im from a motorsport background and think the roboteers have been spoiled by having things free, as it cost me fuel, hotel, entry fee, club membership, tyres, etc etc per event, but I cant see it changing now without serious probelms, its been free too long.
(for free read expenses paid)
Not all events pay expenses it is nice when they do but it is not allways possible with other expenses to pay out.
Johnno there is a sheet plastic on the market (recycled plastic bags I think) all black very cheap!!!!!! I think it comes in 8x4 sheets I have some samples its about 6mm thick and very tough could line the top of the arena --does not tear or splinter , :)
Being from a Motorsports background probably dosent help James, as most people into Motorsports, either have loads of spare cash, or Sponsors with loads of spare cash, I have been envolved with Motorsport for most of my life, ( being one of the people who prepare the cars) and I dont know of anybody Racing who works in an ordinary Job, ie, plumber, lorry driver, electrician, etc, but Robots, are more or less affordabe, as long as we have free events, it does help when fuel exes are paid. A good example of cheap Motorsport was Formuls Ford, but not that cheap.
Just my two pence worth.
I bought a sheet of polypropylene 4mm think it was around £28 for an 8 by 4
Yeah Dave, I know.
I worked out my Race at Mallory park cost me £100 per minute.... yike!
Im not against expenses being paid to roboteers, after all the event orgaizers tend to want a profit, not loss, so if they make money it should only be fair they reimburse the roboteers, but if they make a loss, it should not be expected of them to pay up.
Not making reference to my event, but for example, Debenham last year, most roboteers were fine that they did not get expenses as they lost money on the event, but some did moan. I think its become the norm to have this and that, so roboteers have become used to it.
if it were me, and I made the Law, it would be simple, if an organizer makes a sufficient profit to pay petrol, they should, enough for accom, they should, enough for appearance fee, they should, but only in equal parts.... ie, expenses are £400 paid if they make a profit of £800, and so on.
To me any expenses are a bonus
Same here.
in fact, I think it means I can attend more events this year as the new business has tied up so much cash. Got expenses for the first time from Aber, and suddenly I have an event account to decided if I can go to more.
report and piccys up: http://www.teammad.co.ukhttp://www.teammad.co.uk - go events then preston.