FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

can one of the hydraulics guys please explain about the accumulators mentioned in the proposed rules change?

Alan, on the agenda is a request to allow the use of presurised suction pumps using an acumulator or similar device. It is certainly something that needs to be discussed with event organisers and roboteers alike.

Why is everybody using the 2% that is meant for measuring-faults of the scale(s)? Dangerous!

(Message edited by mjm on October 09, 2007)

Sam Smitch Requist about pre-pressurised oil tanks stem from experience. Every oil storage that doesnt have an free exit/inlet for atmospheric air will be pressurised somewere in the cyclus. In theory that could be seen as an accumulator, and that isnt allowed in the rules.

The main concern about this, according to me, is that sticklers for the rules would use this to disqualify about any hydraulic user.
As most use a accumulator bladder or simular.

Every time there is any rule change it causes problems, people think that it will affect them adversely, and the problems and expense this will cost, I would suggest firstly we should consider any rule change on the basis of how it will benefit the robot movement as a whole in the future.
Then deal with the logistics and costs after that, we are by definition engineers and inventors we can adapt. If the rule change for weight and Co2 measurement are harmonised through out the world this would eventually lead to a more stable rule structure with less time wasted with arguments like this in the future.
This harmonisation could take place over a couple of years giving time for Roboteers to modify or rebuild there robots as required with the expense spread over a longer period of time, My robot gets re-built almost every meeting!!!! It€™s that bad. It was conceived as a spinner but circumstances regarding safety. Made an effective rule change making my robot unviable to run in the UK. I had to adapt my robot, I would just add I agree with this rule change I would not be able to cope with the guilt of having my machine kill or injure.
I believe rules are there for two main reasons
1/ Safety to ensure risk of injury to anyone is reduced to an absolute minimum.
2/ Fairness rules offer a structure that every one understands and follows. It€™s a level playing field; if Co2 is not considered in the weight calculation, then could the hydraulic boys have a case to not include the hydraulic fluid in their machines?

Hydraulic fluids are not consumed. CO² is. Use the CO² and you lose 2 kilos. The weight advantage lasts only as long as your store of flips. After that your robot becomes a weaponless and 2 kilos lighter bumpin car.

My 2 cents... why meddle with a format that works ?
For the featherweights the discussion is valid... a kilo gained counts for a LOT when you talk about 12 kilos. But a heavyweight ? It shrugs at the 2 kilos. The only reason why I object to extending the rule towards heavyweights is because a number of already very good and reliable robots will get into trouble then, already having been forced recently to scale down, this time a rules change might herald their demise.

Tough As Nails is a good example of this. Engineered quasi perfectly to weigh 100 kilos but how will Jeroen be able to shave off 2 kilos ? AGAIN ? Is he being punished for something or what ?

Well for starters unless something goes horribly wrong, the hydraulic robots do not loose there hydraulic fluids and stay 100kg, co2 machines loose weight as the fight goes on.

I do not think a weight change in heavies will add to safety. I do think however that if you do want to level the playing field for feathers to 13,6kg, you should also use 100kg for heavies including gas. RFL ruling for one, means also RFL ruling for the rest of the weight classes.

If this means that our Pneumatic rules go in effect with the RFL, it means the playing field is level all over te world. And that is in the end the best for all of us.

But that would also mean that A123 cells should be allowed in all weight classes, since they are already allowed all over the world except the FRA. It will give the heavies a chance to drop down in weight more easily without having to make fundamental changes to the design of the robot.

Why include all excisting HW robots in this? It is possible to let them run to old rules, like it is done in car racing where old models run in the same race as new models.
The old ones will disappear faster then we can adopt new rules, anyway.

then could the hydraulic boys have a case to not include the hydraulic fluid in their machines
I was joking!!

Craig, its rather simple and light to enlarge the pressureless oiltank to 10L of oil, nothing done easely in the CO2 using robots, as the storage tank is prohibitively heavy.