The sides and rear stick out by 4cm, and it is part of the shape.
The shape is basically a smaller version of Merlin with 4 wheels and a flat front.
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The sides and rear stick out by 4cm, and it is part of the shape.
The shape is basically a smaller version of Merlin with 4 wheels and a flat front.
If you laugh at my stats, Daniel, you need to watch some Blackadder and get a proper laugh and a sense of humour :proud:
Ive changed them a bit to remove a decent bit of weight, so hopefully this should be fine:
NITRO-GENE 5.0
€ WEIGHT: 99kg
€ ARMOUR: 3.25mm monocoque Hardox for the body. 6mm Hardox flipper. Inside the body, there€™s 1cm of Vulkanised rubber on the sides and rear, with 3cm on the front to help fight powerful spinners, and theres also 0.5cm of PU foam covering the motors and flipper rams inside for protection.
€ SHAPE: Low invertible box with sides and rear angled in a shape, with the rear angled . The front is completely flat, making it useful at hitting into things and bashing. All the lines have been curved over to make it harder for a spinner to grab onto a panel and rip.
€ MOTORS: 2 x S28-400 MagMotors at 36V = 12HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 4 Vulkanised Wheels, each is 40mm in width, and they€™re also 180mm in diameter.
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 79CM (H) 17CM (W) 57CM
€ COLOUR: Dark Blue all over with the flipper coloured red with the name imblazed on the flipper (running vertically down the robot) in gold writing with a thick silver outline. All the edges of the robot are coloured gold.
€ WEAPONRY: A full pressure Nitrogen powered flipper at 1000psi, using a single 110mm ram at 1000psi. The flipper is mounted in the middle of the robot, and is 15cm wide and runs 75cm up the body. Using a 5cm long 10mm thick Titanium wedge underneath the flipper, and a heavy flipping arm, the flipper runs completely along the ground. Running on a ratio 2.5:1, the flipper produces 1400kg of force at the tips, allowing me to launch anyone away! This version has enough lift to get a robot of equal size 11-6ft into the air, and throw it 11-6ft along. This version has 2 x 1kg Nitrogen bottles, giving me 20 flips! The flipper has enough power to self-right Nitro-Gene 5.0 in a super stylish 540* somersault!
€ SPEED: 20mph
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0CM-1CM. At the front, it is completely 0mm. On the skirted sides/rear, its 1cm. 4mm Titanium skirts held on by Hardox hindges are mounted on the sides/rear and join up at the corners, making it harder to get under.
€ STRENGTH: Pushing power and weaponry.
€ WEAKNESS: High ground clearance underneath skirts.
never mind.
(Message edited by leorcc on August 13, 2008)
I really wish people dont change stats while I am busy calculating the old ones. :)
Based on Merlins shape with the differences you describe the monocoque is about 35kg. I think your robot could be in weight.
A couple of things though:
1: What is the fascination with Nitrogen? There is only one significant advantage (no freezing) and for the rest only downsides to the use of Nitrogen. I know the name of the robot is derived from it but is that does not mean you need to use it.
2: You will never no way fit 2 gasbottles in that robot. You will be hard pressed for 1. And the guesstimate for 20 flips? what do you base that on?
Paul, were all laughing at your stats...except me. Im actually disappointed.
Sorry about changing the stats. My thing with Nitrogen is the non-freezing quality, and also it seemed to be more powerful, and it was more appealing to use something other than C02 :proud:
Im now changing the gas bottles - its now a single tank of 3kg, as I have 1kg to use, so its a single tank to provide less space take-up but more flips, as my original (I thought that GeForce had 2.2kg on baord, so I used the 20 flip figure, but it turns out it was 2 x 2.2kg, so I got it wrong. Best guess, I have 15 flips now)
But Ive got it on track now, so Kodster - I KEEP MY SPACE! :mrgreen:
Your dimensions are too small. Yes, smaller dimensions means you can fit more armour on, but you forget you have to fit EVERYTHING inside that tiny space as well.
More powerfull is a fallacy, pressure is pressure no matter what the gas is. 1kg of lead weighs the same as 1kg feathers. A 100mm diameter ram on 50 bar Nitrogen has the same force as 50 bar CO2 or 50 bar air.
Nitrogen is filled on pressure, not weight. You start at a slightly higher pressure than CO2, but within a couple of flips you will be flipping with less power than CO2, because the pressure drops quicker.
(Message edited by leorcc on August 13, 2008)
lol Leo, I think he wants to use Nitrogen as the bots name, Nitro-Gene, is a pun on the word Nitrogen :lame:
I know.
Its better an calling it Air-Gene or Carbo-Gene. It doesnt have the ring of Nitro-Gene :proud:
Kody, Im sorry youre disappointed with me, and I know me suddenly deleting my first 5.0 stats and going back to no. 4 was idiotic, but Leo has ticked everything now, so it should be fine.
And about the Nitrogen thing, all Ill say is I was looking at GeForce 4.0 when I made the stats for it, and I decided to go down the Nitrogen path.
(Message edited by paulc on August 13, 2008)
Dont clone the master of clones. :wink:
And WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THE DIMENSIONS???
Im doing the changes on the ZED board,as I dont want to clog up this thread with criticism. Ive made it wider, as I only shortened it by 1cm from the previous version, which isnt too major, so its 63cm wide, not 57cm wide.
(Message edited by paulc on August 13, 2008)
Youd best do it in the How Can I Improve thread, where we can SEE these changes.
quote:
Kody, Im sorry youre disappointed with me, and I know me suddenly deleting my first 5.0 stats and going back to no. 4 was idiotic, but Leo has ticked everything now, so it should be fine.Well lets not get to exited here. I just noticed you increased the bottle size. I said you would be hard pressed to fit even 1 bottle in, and now you switch to a bigger one.
Do yourself a favour. Draw a rectangle, in scale say 5:1 or so. draw in the ram, motors, wheels, batteries, bottle, and gearboxes. make sure you get the scale right on those. You will find that fitting it all in there is not going to be that simple.
1 x 1.5kg bottle - 10 flips :lame: 10 is probably enough flips to last a match, so that should be fine :)
http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/discus/messages/760/13309.html?1218659259http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/disc...tml?1218659259
Here Paul! :P
Ive just posted there! :proud: - This is a disasterous scenerio :rofl:
Right. Keep the discussion there until the stats have been made legit.
Ah yes, forgot to mention...at second glance, Frank, your vapourbots dimensions seem quite small as well...explanation?
(Message edited by kodster on August 14, 2008)
Which ones?
In addition, Kody is +2>ORDERING me (Thats the only way it can be described, so the language is very hard) to learn about batteries. And 2 things Ive needed to state
1) My robots have won many fights without the battery stats about them, and a few months back people agreed with me that battery stats werent VITAL - armour, motors, weapons, shape and wheels are vital, but no-one said that battery stats were vital / no question had to be included.
2) Martijn won the last C&B, and got 2 major seeding positions with SHA and ANATB, and he did it all WITHOUT STATS OF BATTERIES.
Sorry to bring this up, Im not saying Martijn should put battery stats in to make him better from a statical POV, but if anyone thinks Im covering my backside...I am :proud:
PLEASE Paul, many people dont use batteries in their stats yet, its been a very grey zone, and STILL is.
Theres NEVER been a mutual agreement that battery stats werent vital, just people agreeing and people disagreeing.
Now DONT single me out here, at least be decent enough to say Martijn, among other people, ....
And even though I dont provide weight checks, I perform them, thouroughly, taking into account the surface of my armour etc. as Leo has shown us to do not too long ago in the how to improve thread. Ive been doing so now for well over a year and have always taken into account the weight my batteries would require.
I still think that for vapours batteries are pointless as a) they are implied and b) while you may be able to calculate accurate battery drain in an undamaged state, you cant do it accuratly at all in a damaged state of the robot, which these machines are going to be a lot. Its just far too fickle to bother with in my oppinion. Not to mention motors are bad enough at putting off newcomers, without this too.
I wasnt singling a single entrant out, I was just using an example. If it did seem like I was going after one individual, I can only say sorry, and I agree completely with Alex.
You where singling me out because you didnt say I was an example, you bluntly wrote my name down, you said you had 2 points and I was your supposed second point.
Apologies accepted, and Im still with Alex in this discussion.
Alex, when a part of the robot is 10-15% of the total weight, than that part is far from pointless.
Ive said this before, and Ill say it again, its because the writers are too damn lazy... If they actually read stats and applied them to a realistic situation, we wouldnt have battery-less bots winning, or robots with 3mm of gc running around the arena perfectly...
Alex, if you think batteries in vapors are pointless, why not just remove motors and armor out of the equation as well, just go good all stone scissors paper... My flipper beats your brick, Leos spinners beats my flipper... If you dont understand something, ask for help, dont just say oh i dont need to put that in there, because I know nothing about that
A few years ago, I never new anything about batteries, Ive learnt to understand them, and even now predict roughly what requirements I need from them. If I can count the fingers on your hands (or whats left of them) you can calculate what batteries you need...
PS: Apologies in advance to Kody for smashing his thread for six :proud:
Sorry but apart from knowing what voltage motors are run at, batteries are pointless for writing a fun to read battle, which is the writers job. The only thing a writer really needs to know is Does this robot have enough battery power to last 3-5 minutes? because fights rarely last longer than that.
If you figure every technical detail into a fight such as motors getting less efficient because their batteries are running lower then it writes less as a battle and more as a technical dissertation. For every passing minute youd have to re-evaluate how well each machines running and adjust the writing as it goes.
And it doesnt just stop at batteries. You have to include gas running lower, spinning weapons going slower, traction getting less as tyres wear down. While all this stuff did happen in Robot Wars, the audience was not aware of this fact and it didnt subtract from their enjoyment of the fight. Why would they want to be bothered by the technical details when the really exciting part is that the previously unbeatable robot seems to be getting weaker, and now the underdogs threatening to make a huge upset?
Your argument for leaving armour and motors out on the same basis doesnt apply. The writer needs to know if robot A can survive the huge hit its about to take from Robot Bs spinning weapon. They need to know if the armour will crack, tear or just be torn off.
Added to that, they need to know how quickly the motor on Robot Bs spinning weapon is going to get it up to speed, because Robot As tactic is all about stalling Robot Bs weapon long enough to attack it, and Robot As attempts to do so form the very basis of the story.
Finally, regarding unrealistic robots with 3 MM GCs. Speaking for myself I do take these things into account. Go through Returners, Turbo Tails lost because its srimech looked incapable of working. In previous tournies of mine robots have lost because they got grounded by too low GCs so dont apply the lazy tag to me unless youre talking about my update schedule:)
*also apologises to Kody*
quote:
The only thing a writer really needs to know is Does this robot have enough battery power to last 3-5 minutes? because fights rarely last longer than that. And how will you know that if the vapourbot builder doesnt include battery stats? Right now most writers just assume it does, which in my opinion is wrong.
(Message edited by leorcc on August 14, 2008)
And I never apologize at all. Well... rarely. :)
(Message edited by leorcc on August 14, 2008)
I, for one, do not include such trivial things like battery power and dimensions. And, to be quite honest, I have better things to do than that. If I was forced to to research and find something about every aspect of the robot, made sure that it stayed underweight while coming up with a good and effective design, I do not think it would be worth to compete :P
quote:
made sure that it stayed underweight
ermz... fact is Alex, you come here and enter stuff and claim that its 100 kg, its your responsibility to make sure its not blatantly overweight
and of course we have the how to imrpove topic, if you arent sure what to use run your bots through that topic and make sure to listen to the suggestions you get
Adding my own two cents here...
Batteries and dimensions DO matter, as were trying to be creative with our designs, and I think it lazy and uncaring of the other builders that dont account for batteries in their stats. Sure, Frank, batteries really dont matter in a battle much, but its like Leo said: When a part of the robot is 10-15% of the total weight, than that part is far from pointless. Its the actual STATS that matter. Look at some of the overpowered bots that use LEM200s and Eteks. Im quite sure that hardly any of those people take into account that battery weight will push their rammer over the limit.
As for dimensions, its the same thing. They dont matter much in the battle, but they DO matter in the stats. Some people are so infernally convinced that they can stuff like a couple of LEM130s, some NiCads/A123s, 4WD, a weapon, and all the rest inside something like a 70x70x15 box and get away with it. and even if it DID fit inside, then batteries would matter even more, as they would get so damned hot from lack of space they wouldnt be able to air out, and would meltdown and the bot would stop. Aarons right, some of the writers (I myself :proud:) have gotten to lazy to notice that.
And while were on the topic of dimensions, Frank, I think The May Tracks Has You seems a little too small in dimensions...
Ta. :)
(Message edited by kodster on August 14, 2008)
Aaron, your arguement is massively oversimplified, annoyingly patronising and verging on being willfully elitist as per usual.
The point with batteries is that unlike armour or motors which have a direct and easily quantifiable effect upon a design, the fact that these fights are written makes a battery stat just a vague and unecessary complication. How long is a written fight? The writer may say its 3 minutes but as you yourself profess vapour fights frequently dont even resemble actual fights anyway and are by no means half as busy as them most of the time, so how can we expect writers to have an accurate guage of time, if anything what we need to devise is a way of standardising how writers percieve time, but of course as there is no way that could ever be done, its just asking for bad writing to enact something which depends on time as a factor, its not like Im saying dont ever include batteries, or even dont allow for batteries in the weight, which Im in fact for.
The point being no offense to anyone here, but I just dont trust the majority of writers to get the effects of comparative battery stats right, and as it is Im fed up with going out of competitions in unrealistic ways, and this is just another complication to a system a lot of people dont get right as it is.
*walks in*
*looks around*
*walks out*
ffffff>Postcount +1 :D
What we really need here is a comprimse between what is fun and what is real. For vapourbotting, clearly we need to have the basis for it grounded in reality but we need to not have it so nitpickingly real that we lose a lot of the fun of the whole competition. I know for a fact that Tony retired because of the progressivly stricter rules regarding vapourbotting left it unfun, and I felt that one of the biggest draws in ARC was the easy and simplicity that kept it fresh, fun, and importantly not bogged down in the smaller details.
While I do agree that we need accurate stats in weight (to a certain degree), motors, weaponry, and armor, I do not feel that the smaller details like batters, dimensions, and ground clearence should play a huge part.
What reinforces my point is the fact that fights hardly ever take into account such details, and, like Alex said, are usually hardly accurate enough to follow such things as batteries. One example is where I made Cosmic Thunder 2 have a 1mm or 3mm (i forget) GC on the sides, just to make sure that it would be more manueverable (as if such a small amount would do so :P). It ended up that I was penalized for doing so, since the opposing robot was able to easily get under my sides and toss me around. Despite the fact that they had 0mm ground clearence on the front (like CT2 does), they never hit any bumps in the arena floor or anything of the sort.
The underlying theme Im trying to make here is, just, dont lose sight of what makes this whole competition fun by trying to bring the more trivial parts of real life robotics in it. After all, its just an internet game :P
Okay, seriously, this discussion needs to be kept off the tournament thread. Please.
Right. For the sake for other people, Im going to lift the you need batteries in your stats rule...just stop the arguing, PLEASE.
Need Mattys bots still.