How Could I Improve...

Tim, we KNOW your Grandfather has died, and I give my condolances, but you cant behave like this:

I have a friend at school called Ollie, and during the Christmas holidays, his cousin was walking to school and was run over by a bus. In school, we didnt see him for 2 weeks - wed all thought he was ill - because he couldnt cope for any mention of a bus or anything. I felt sorry for him as hes an extremely good friend of mine, and he proberbly went through what youre going through, but Ollie, after someone close to him had died, didnt act like a selfish, attention seeking sod like youre doing now.

And also, dont bad-mouth Canada. Ive got a relative there and I take very strongly to that remark.

Canada has a great free public health plan too, so if you move to Canada, Tim, youll be able to get some much needed help with that Troll condition you have :mrgreen:

(while Im Here its pointless set of numbers removed)

(Message edited by big_nipper on January 29, 2008)

Kane, could you please take a good look at this thread please?

Normally I dont make a habit of this, but I do feel you are all crossing the line here. If you dont like Tim or his tournament, dont enter. This badgering is uncalled for.

And Tim, stop reacting in such a childish manner. The loss of a grandparent is not easy, but participating in a flamewar in his memory is not the way to go.

Sorry Leo its just that 1 and a half people are piddling me off (Kody is the half and Aaron is the 1) and I really wouldnt mind it if people actually bothered to give my tournaments a chance. Also Kody I was tired and piddled off when I was writing that so now I know that that was a hell of a lot harsher to you so Kody can you take my apology because its been 2 years since you Canadians have killed seals. Also God how I hate the new rules.

Oh for the love of€¦ where was I? :lame:

Paul: Thanks for clearing up those few things, but I€™m still very unsure about the skirt. Such things as how exactly is it moved up and down by a motor? What is it made of to have one fixed 360o piece around the robot? How is it hinged? Where is it hinged, more importantly€¦ if below the teeth, what happens when the robot is inverted? Just give a few extra details if you can. :)

And then all hell breaks loose€¦ I was going to ignore the argument in the FSTT but this has gone just too far.

Tim: In reality, it would take nothing short of a miracle to improve Counter. For a start, it would help if you posted the stats in here so we could analyse them. From memory it has wooden and plastic armour, so why are you claiming it was designed as a spinner killer?

Now down to business! Just stop with the childish insults, it really isn€™t helping your already non-existent reputation. Do you think your grandfather would appreciate you using him as a form of argument? I apologise to both Tim and Paul for recent events and offer my condolences where necessary€¦ but Tim, as Leo suggested, you cannot use this as an excuse for everything you say or do wrong.

Help with tournaments? First of all you need to research, read, look around and find ideas how to properly start a vapourbot tournament. Then gain some people€™s respect around here. Maybe then you can start a tournament. And also€¦ what new rules?

Aaron: Free public health plans FTW! :proud:

This is supposed to be a help thread, not a flame war. Can we get back on topic? I think it would be a shame to see a thread designed to help newcomers be bombarded with argumentative comments and locked€¦

Counter was designed to be a spinner killer because under the weak armour is acid which dissolves the attacking robot.

I meant the new rules on what to write and for the lack of freedom of speech.

If you want a spinner killer, then the best road to go down in my view is a low armoured box with foam inside it to protect the various parts from shaking loose, keeping everything simple.

Tim, just write a random battle in here and wait for some responses.

Tim is temporarily suspended again, awaiting a decision be the FRA Executive.

was tim suspended before?:uhoh:

ok, now lets return to what this thread was made for please, we have serious newcomers in Danny Bailey, Paul Cuomo, Samuel Park (are you still around?) and now Andre Ydolly who can use some help in this game, the game is growing people, so this thread can serve a nice purpose

Yes, good going FRA Admins. :)

Enter: The promising newcomers!!! :):):)

To Quote the front page of the Forum:

Keep chat clean and non-offensive. Spamming, harassment, foul language or behaviour that is inappropriate on a public forum will result in your account being terminated.

Name: Sir Spinalot
Shape: Circle
Weapon: Electric-powered Spinning Blade (Horizontal)
Armour: Titanium
Drive: Lem 130
Wheels: 4 wheels
Sri-mech: Yes

What do you think?

OK, basic problems involved in moving from FRW to the more complex stat system:

Weapon: Electric-powered Spinning Blade (Horizontal) - We need to know the shape and weight of the blade, what its made of plus the RPM. If you go to http://www.teamcosmos.com/ke/ke.shtmlhttp://www.teamcosmos.com/ke/ke.shtml you can enter the information you want, and also work out many many KJs it will produce, which tells us how powerful it is.

Armour: Titanium - We need to know the thickness of the Titanium in MMs

Sri-mech: Yes - The mechanism used is needed, such as a self righting bar like Hypnodisc.

Thats the basics anyway.

Sir Spinalot Weapon Spinning Blade is a horiztonal bar. Bar is 12 by 10 by 10 Its weight about by 192 pounds and Its rpm is 300. The Armour is titanium and its thickness is 40mm.

OK, to convert pounds to KGs, divide them by 2.2. That tells us your bar is 87 KGs, which would make the robot just a little overweight:proud:

Reduce the thickness of the bar to reduce its weight, and add some teeth on the bar to give it some bite. You might also want to consider increasing the RPM to generate more energy, because at 300 its quite weedy. 750 to 1000 should be good.

Also, 40 mm of armour = 4 CMs.Having that all over will also put you overweight, something closer to 6 mm should be good.

Ok. The bar is now 12 by 10 by 5. RPM is 1000. Its has 10 teeth with 5 by 5 by 5 by 5. the teeth its also made by titanium. and so is the the bar. The armor is titanium and is 30 MM.

So is Sir Spinalot approved or not?

meh, theres some stuff you need to learn

in Fantasy Robot Wars, with Jamie McGarry, you simply gave some VERY basic info and the robot pretty much made itself, here, YOU have to make the robot, YOU have to assemble the parts and bring them together to make a working 100 kg robot

in your introduction thread, Frank gave some basic info on what materials to use, Im not the best teacher among us, but Ill give you a quick walkthrough






You need a machine that can...
1. Drive around. Wheels, tracks, shufflers or legs. Except for the wheels, all those options get weight advantages. Despite the weight-disadvantage, wheels are still the most often used option. For Sir Spinalot, go for 4 wheels for agility and stability Id say.
Of course, your wheels wont move by themselves, youll need motors for that! Rambots who win by hitting the oppont with their entire body, like Tornado and Storm, can invest a lot of weight in the motors, a robot like yours that uses a big spinning blade can not. As youll want to steer as well, youll need 2 motors at least, so you can stall your left sight and turn left, like a tank does. You could also invest some weight in a car-like steering system, but I would not do that in this case. For Sir Spinalot Id say you use either 2 S28-400 MagMotors (very light), or, if possible, 2 LEM130s.

2. Beat your opponent. Flipem out of the arena with a powerfull lever, ram them into the pit with powerfull motors or an efficient shape, or destrou them with a devestating weapon. Sir Spinalot clearly is in the last catogery. Youll need to invest in a (heavy) blade and a motor to spin it around at a certain RPM. Frank already showed you a nice link for calculations on this. The LEM300 does a good job spinning your weapon around.

3. Defend from your opponent. Armour around your body, titanium (relatively light) and Hardox (heavy and VERY powerful) are used for this quite often. How many room theres left for the armour depends on how many kilograms were used in catogery 1 and 2. Of course, if you want your armour to be thicker you can always make some changes in those catogeries. Also, if you believe you can do with less armour, youll have more weight to invest in those catogeries. Other defensive measurements are a srimech (or being invertible), and skirts.

Put these 3 catogeries together, make sure the sum of it all is within 100 kg, and youre fine. For the mass of certain parts and materials... Im not that good in that. You can always browse the web for that, or ask for help from other people around here.

Hope I was of any help :proud:

Wow all that stuff for a fantasy robot battle entry? This forum aint playing around. :crazy:

thing is, us guys would LOVE to build our own robots, buying the fanciest parts and best armours one can find, but because we dont have the resources to do so, we make fantasy robots, describing what we WOULD BUILT if we had the money, as detailed as we can, giving the person whos tournament we enter no questions about how the robot would look, or perform, were it real :proud:

Ok. What about the Sir Spinalot weight of 30mm titanium armor and the whole thing?

30 mm is too much. Usually when you have an active weapon, you need to thin down the armour to cpmensate for the weight of the moving parts. The only robots that can have really thick armour are rambots with passive wedges.

Lets use Storm 2 as an example. The front armour was thicker as they were using this to deflect spinners. This was 1.2 CMs I believe. Everywhere else, the armour was something like 6 mms.

Most people just say something like 8 mms because its easier than saying 5 mms at the sides, 6 mms at the back, 7 mms at the front, but reinforced to 1 CM at critical areas.

For Sir Spinnalot, Id recommend something like 5-6 mms, but thats guesswork. Ive never been good at estimating weight, so if anyone better than me wants to chip in, feel free.

Can you check my new design.

TRI-TAINIUM

€ WEIGHT: 100kg

€ ARMOUR: 4mm Hardox for the back/scoop. The top and bottom panels are 5mm Titanium and the sloped sides are 6mm Hardox to sheild the wheels.

€ SHAPE: Low invertible box with a front scoop( the scoop has a slight dip in it to help get under other robots better) and sloped sides.

€ MOTORS: 2 x LEM 130€™s at 36V = 18HP

€ LOCOMOTION: 4 Vulkanised Wheels.

€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 60CM (H) 20CM (W) 60CM

€ COLOUR: Unpainted, with the exception of the name on top written in black paint.

€ WEAPONRY: The weaponry consists of 3 x 9kg discs, made out of 1cm of Titanium with 3 Hardox bludgening teeth. The discs are set on the same axle, and amounted deep into the scoop, with the teeth just reaching towards the lip of the scoop, so the uppercut movement of the discs can attack base-panels and the like. The discs are powered by 2 x LEM130s at 36V. Set on a ratio of 5:1, it gives off 3500rpm. The discs, combined together make 27kg, so the force given out is 165kj per hit! Large amounts of Rubber amounted behind the scoop stops the risk of self-destruction.

€ SPEED: 18mph

€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM-1CM. At the front, it is completely 0mm. On the sides/rear, its 1cm.

€ STRENGTH: Weaponry.

€ WEAKNESS: Completely new design.

Ok Ill make Sir Spinalot armor 6mm.

Paul, Ive briefly scanned Tri-Taniums stats and I can only see two major flaws:

1) The armour is too thick to be realistic combined with your weapon system.

2) Youre being optimistic with your KJ count. It wont give 165 KJs, it will give 55 KJs in three seperate places. This isnt just being pedantic, because you cant guarantee that all three discs will hit.

Be as pedantic as you wish. I needed to have metioned that to make sure they ALL hit home, the discs are amounted at the front on the same axle, and are only seperated by a 5mm gap. So technically, it should hit roughly the same spot, and generate all that energy into the same area.

As for the armour:

ARMOUR: 3.25mm Hardox for the scoop. The top/rear and bottom panels are 5mm Titanium and the sloped sides are 5mm Hardox to sheild the wheels.

How does it look now?

I think the armour is about right now

your weapon is basically a single drum with 2 vertical gaps in it, of course when you hit something at an angle, your opponent does NOT feel the wrath of your entire weapon, so Franks kinda right there

also, did you calculate the power of a single disc (55 kJ, as Frank said), and multiply it by 3? If so, you made a mistake. Energy=0,5*mass*speed^2, so if your mass is multiplied by 3, your energy is multiplied by 0,5*3=1,5, meaning your output is 55*1,5=82,5 kJ (which isnt bad).

What about my robot whole stats?

No Batteries in there Paul, it cannot drive, or spin up :P

Seriously think its just over the limit, Id drop one of those LEM130s off the weapon, 27KG is light enough for a LEM130, two of them is a waste of weight. Switch the drives to S28-400 magmotors, and it should put you into the clear.

WRT the KE calculation, if they are all on the same shaft, the KE is combined together. So Pauls figure is correct.

Forget what I said, Aaron and Paul are absolutely right, when 3 drums together become one wider drum (which is basically what is happening here), 0,5*m*v^2 becomes 0,5*3*m*v^2 and the result (the kinetic energy) is multiplied by 3.

Andre, can you summerize what your robot will look like and put the stats in a schematic like Paul did?

That makes it easier for us to give a good judgement on the machine.

Andre, these are the old Velociraptors Fanfic Tournaments (one of the biggest tournaments we ever had) entry requirements.

This information is required for Vapourbots (you can give more if you want):
Weight
Shape
Dimensions (l x w x h)
Speed
Locomotion (mention what its made of, eg: if its wheels, are they foam filled?)
Ground Clearance
Armour
Weaponry
Srimech
At least one strength
At least one weakness

Mention all those points as detailed as you can, please do add whats driving your machine (the LEMs perhaps), get your facts straight, and you have yourself a vapour!

Name: Sir Spinalot
Shape: Circle (Like The Revolutionist)
Dimensions: 50cm X 50cm X 50cm
Speed: 20mph
Locomtion: 2 Lem300 motors
Ground Clearance: 0
Armour: 6mm titanium armor
Weaponry: Titanium Spinning Bar 12x10x5 with 10 titanium teeth 5x5x5 that spins 1000 RPM with 2 lem300 motors.
Srimech: Yes a self-right bar.
Strength: Powerful Weapon
Weakness: Lack Of Traction

(Message edited by Bartmanhomer on February 14, 2008)

Sir Spinalot

This is slowly turning into a good first vapourbot. The basics are there but there is much more you could expand on. The way I see it, the more information you pack in, the easier it is for the writer to understand how it will perform.

First of all, you may be surprised how large heavyweight robots actually are. I would suggest making the diameter somewhere between 700mm - 1000mm. The robot does not need to be that tall either. For this, I€™d suggest around 200mm in height. Bear in mind the diameter of your motors will mean few robots are under 150mm tall.

Which brings me onto the next problem - LEM300 motors do not exist. The Lynch Motor Company or LEMCO produce 3 motors that I am aware of - the LEM130, the LEM170 and the LEM200. Although obviously correct me if I am wrong here. I believe you would probably be referring to LEM130 motors. These would be a good choice for drive as they are incredible light for such a powerful motor. At 24v they give similar performance to a Bosch 750, which weight twice as much. At 36v you can get huge amounts of power out of them, but being as you are circular in shape I€™d stick too just 24v. Alternatively, you could also look at Magmotors, particularly the S28-400.

Ground clearance is something which is usually difficult to grasp for newcomers. 0mm effectively means that you cannot move. 0mm clearance is only really capable by using wedge that run flush to the ground, whether these are fixed or skirted. And being as your robot has neither of these, it will require higher. High ground clearance isn€™t such a bad thing. Being as you have the spinner providing gyroscopic forces and a self-righting bar, it isn€™t much of a problem anyway. With spinners, it is also likely that debris will be caused on the arena floor, which you would have to drive over. Therefore you would probably need at least 8mm of clearance, and I€™d suggest 10mm to be safe.

For the weapon you need a few more details. For a start it needs to be a lot bigger so it can actually hit opponents. Secondly, how do you fit 10 teeth on to a bar? Again you€™ll need to change the motors, as with the drive motors. For the self-righting bar, where is it positioned and what powers it?

If you can fix all of this stuff, then a few more details can be added. Good stuff so far though! :)

This sounds like a Tornado Mer to me. :)

With a spinning bar, where is your srimechbar located that it would not get hit by the spinning bar if you try to use it?

Well my weapon for the spinning bar is in the middle of the body and the srimechbar is in the top.

A bit like Icewave then?