Note: 2% isnt a rule. Its just something agreed by event organisers to cover their scales.
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Note: 2% isnt a rule. Its just something agreed by event organisers to cover their scales.
adrian - tbh seeing that andy and geoff will not be seeking re-election then this can only turn out bad and looks like the FRA will die with EOs taking over in ways
andy does ALOT of work and i think attended most events last year
geoff i dont know aswell as andy but im sure he does alot of work and have seen him at most events
so whos going to want to take over their roles? with all this moaning and argueing (i dont blame them for not wanting to be re-elected) its a job i wouldnt want myself and cant think of anyone apart from Dave Lang who has said he has wanted to be president
cant be bothered to write anymore but could go on but will prob get moaned at
but andy and geoff, please see how 2008 goes first imo we need both of you
I second that
i believe that also, it is disapointing to read, i have never had a problem with either of them, but i wouldnt want their position and i dont blame them, still must be hard for them as i know they care as much for the sport as we do.
i think things need to change, it all seems to be on a self destruct at the moment.
it all seems to be on a self destruct at the moment
Is it?
I would disagree. Granted that geoff and andy leaving their positions is regretful but if you look at the events coming up in the year, it seems that we are anything but on self destruct.
All the events that I attended last year were well attended and the atmosphere was great.
I would love to run for one of the FRA positions as I want to move the sport forward but my geographical location and the fact that I dont know what country Ill be in after May deter me.
Take a more optimistic look at the F
may 2009 is still along way away
so whos knows what will happen it could be back on TV by then! i hope lol
gary, im sorry but just coz we got loads of events going on it doesnt mean things are great.
i mean we can only use spinners in one arena (nothing against EO, i know theirs costs etc), but to me how can it be a proper sport when your limited to what you can fight with? then people moan that a weapon should be compulsory as its boring with wedges? then you got the bickering on here, now xfm dont do events anymore, plus have all the veterans simply lost interest? i think that helps with atmosphere like at think tank having razer going, i know we have terrorhurtz, big nipper,etc... but the ones they made toys out of etc...that everyone knows the names of (no disrespect to anyone!). i believe this all helps with the atmosphere, which is good at events but its not mind blowing, i dont know why but when im at an event their are alot of fights im not bothered about watching (unless its a spinner :lol:) dont know why it is.
these are my personal feelings i dont suddenly want a backlash of everyone lol
adrian for once i think im going to have to agree with ya haha
atm tho theres not enough money around for RL and RR to create a spinner arena but i see the events growing and more profit coming in for the EOs which is great
the big named robots would be great for shows but wont be back unless theres TV involved - if it did come back though all of us who are around now will be as popular as them as the robots nowadays would kill any robot from the show
i had a thought about a website kind of like You Tube but 10 times better for our robot videos - would be great if someone would create kind of episodes of events but this means all roboteers would have to get involved and would be abit of a hassle. im sure if everyone stuck in abit of money for a few cameras etc to be installed in the arena and out then it would be possible and if any money was made out of this by advertising on the site then this would come back to us roboteers and no stupid TV company - we could also like give out flyers at the events as 1000s are coming to shows now so hopefully by word of mouth the site could get popular
i dont even know if that all makes sense :rofl:
iv gtg the americans are all going on xbox live so ill gotta go and kill them :)
this stupid weather
On the lets start a robot wars petition this U-tube thing is being discussed.
:)
Geoff,
I am currently not a member of your Roboteers Union but I have been. Yet despite not being a member I have consistently promoted the FRA at all opportunities via media advertising, my own forum and advice to builders. I have also assisted the FRA behind the scenes acting as a sounding board for rule changes and expected no acknowledgement for such. I used to feel part of the roboting community but now I feel like I€™m being treated as a scab by the FRA executive. Fortunately there are other FRA committee members who are showing maturity that gives hope for the future FRA and I include Kane in that as his post above demonstrates.
I came into this thread following a post that encouraged alternative views which I did. I did not ask the FRA association to answer my posts but it chose to do so of its own free will. I make no apology for challenging this or any other establishment; this is something that Engineers are generally good at and something that bureaucrats tend not to like.
You are someone who I considered a friend yet to be flamed by you has come as rather a shock. When I became a member again of this forum, the invite did not mention that I also had to become a paid up FRA member.
I had a constructive telephone call with Andy yesterday but that has now been overtaken by your post as FRA chairman which demonstrates to me that the FRA remains an organisation that overall I do not wish to be associated with. Call it carping if you wish, I certainly do not. On your final request to put up or shut up basically means fall in line with the FRA or shut up so I€™ll shut up.
No Paul dont, without the views of people willing to challenge the FRA what are we? a bunch mindless drones?
this sport is to inspire people to use there imagination and express it, The FRA should not be suppressing us
We are the robot builders we have the power without us there is no FRA, we could survive without the FRA (that should bring a nice response)
I strongly agree Craig.
all this over a £10 membership fee. but then i suppose this forum wouldnt be right without bickering and fallouts with andy kane and co. if i were geoff or andy i would just give up the post and let someone else get the stick for a change. go to events and enjoy roboteering as it should be. no-one deserves what you guys put up with.
Shane ... Pauls position/stance is obviously coloured by issues other than the paltry £10 FRA fee.
Some of the statements in this thread are written in such a way as to offer minimum offence ... whilst others are less than diplomatic.
The tone of these less than diplomatic posts are causing offence ... Its a consequence of allowing Free Speech.
Very dissapointed in geoffs post. i dont think it does the FRA any justice. I do support the FRA and its goals which i think we all do (even you paul) however comments like that dont help the situation in any shape or form.
attacking posts that ask controvercial questions is the wrong way to go. just answer them to the best you can and that will satisfy everybody and at least gives poeple the impression that your honest and willing to listen.
I personnaly think that people like paul dont join the FRA because of the FRA, more the people that represent it and do a bad job.
I dont think the FRA committee are doing a bad job. I do think that, as demonstrated above, some committee members sometimes dont demonstrate the degree of tact and diplomacy needed in these kinds of discussions. Nor of course do some other roboteers, which is how these conflicts develop. Geoff, Andy, while Im sure its extremely frustrating to have people carping at you about stuff you may feel is petty, irrelevant or whatever your role in the FRA means you need to demonstrate more tact and patience- it comes with the territory and is part of the jobs youve taken on. If you are seen to be judgemental, rude or make people feel excluded its bad for the sport/ community and reflects badly on us all. Unreasonable to expect that kind of restraint? Maybe, but the alternative is to respond as you have above and create more misunderstanding, bad feeling and divisions, For those who criticise the FRA and those elected to run it: Yes, of course its appropriate to offer criticisms, but theres no need to be rude to the people elected to run it on our behalf. We need to be adult enough to avoid personalising this stuff and realise that the FRA committee are fellow robot builders. When Andy and Geoff step down, whoever takes on the roles will no doubt get a rapid reality check in terms of the commitment and effort involved- and need to grow thick skins.
Right, bear with me a moment while I put this flame-proof suit on...
To all,
I dont do tact and patience, I concluded a while ago it is a waste of time and I make no appolgy!!
Andy and I work bloody hard for the benefit of the FRA and roboteering in general, but it is clear from the comments above that what we do is not appreciated by some people.
Paul, if you dont want to join.. Fine by me, thats your choice!
James, So you think I no longer do the FRA any justice? if so, Im quite happy to stand down now and force an election in which, given your comments, you would be very keen to stand?
Maybe you would enjoy multiple trips to Daventry for committee or E.O. meetings each year, being responsible for making sure that the Associations accounts are audited on time, being leagaly responsible for the conduct of the Association, holding the directorship of Fighting Robots Ltd. (along with all the leagal responsabilities that goes with it) spending hours writing up ammendments to build rules, the list just goes on and on!
THEN have to deal with people on this forum that seem to have nothing better to do than criticise and pick holes in every little thing we do.. and you wonder why I loose my cool from time to time.
So, if any of you think you could do a better Job of Chairman of the Association.. please feel free to propose a motion of no confidence in my abilities and I will be more than happy to stand down. At least then I could go back to being a normal roboteer and go to events without wondering whats comming next.
Im off on holiday now (a couple of weeks of peace and quite and not a robot in sight!!)
O.K. Ive said my piece.. the next move is down to you guys.
John, is dead right when he says says that thick skins will be needed. Shane is also dead right as any successor to Andys and Geoffs jobs will get the stick. It doesnt matter what happens, there will always be someone who disagrees with any decision made.
At the end of 2007 it all looked extremely promising with many good events lined up, relationships repaired, and things generally were at peace. Then on this thread, from Jan 5th 2008 it all went t*ts up.
No individual is to blame for this. Like a game of Chinese whispers, it took a certain direction and hurtled away and the end of this thread now bears no resemblance to the beginning becoming increasing more negative as it went.
We dont, as a community, need this negativity. This is one of the major reasons why some people stay away.
To Paul and Tim - I have clashed head-on with the Executive in the past. Getting that kind of response is a bit of a shock I know but I have managed to use tact, diplomacy (and sheer stubborness :)) to put my point over. One thing I know for sure is that you are both well respected and you would be welcomed back into this community with open arms - you have my word on that!
Thats my rant if you like...
Missed the edit deadline.....
Just to say I try to use tact and diplomacy even if others have run out of it :wink:
Tact and patience is never a waste of time- even if it can be difficult to muster in trying circumstances. The alternative is bad tempered exchanges that fuel pointless feuds and misunderstandings. Now thats a waste of time. As should be obvious from the tone of my post, I appreciate what you, Andy and the rest of the FRA committee do, on a voluntary basis, for the community, just as I appreciate the efforts of the EOs, particularly Roaming Robots, in putting their money where their mouths are and keeping the sport going.
Just thought I would reiterate my feelings from an earlier post
I am going to have an enjoyable year as a roboteer knowing that at this time that the event organisers are comfortable with each other for the first time, and that they and the FRA are also at ease with each other.
This should be a positive message to you all.
A lot of this thread is hot air, what is needed is an event to concentrate the mind.
Have not seen this lot going on as have been doing the FRA accounts today and yes they do balance.
I also have started on 2008 membership paperwork and would like to thank the following for their generous donations to our trophy fund.
Geoff Thorpe-Robot Rumble and Craig Colliass-Saint.
Some people need to get off their high horse and stop stiring trouble... The FRA have worked very hard ... in past i have dissagreed and so have others with their ways but they have always had the roboteers interests at heart and further down the line i and others can say yes they were right/or on right track and happy with the outcome.
Im sorry but im shocked to see the kind of posts coming from Tim and Paul - 2 people i looked up at. The message im getting from Tim is your relaying messages and stiring from other memebesr which you have bascily said in your posts.... and Paul you have a problem in joining coz of a few rule changes... deal with it ? And join and move forward and help make the sport a better one than slagging it off?
????
IF Andy and Geoff are no longer in the FRA when they step down, then we kiss good bye to everything... the amount of work and stuff they do is just a joke and beyond call of duty.. and they take all the flake... no wonder some of their comments have been heatedd, i would now have been that much restrained..
Yes there has been bitchyness between some EOs.. but that has died down as everyone is coming to terms theres more than 1 and theres enough for everyone and were all palying nice so all should be fine to better our sport....
The people that caused the problems have now been found out and people have realised who they are..... and working towards making hobby/sport back on track.
I dont know.... stop trying to spoil it for everyone and join and try and fix the problems/issues you have...
I think it was Leo i had a beef about with him in my eyes just stiring things, but that was my view.. but hes a member and has been eccoing his concerns and things are getting better... he is classic example of doing it the right way maybe? Fair play.
Mr Stu
The biggest problem thats causing most of this, and the same in most of the past disagreements is just down to questions that have been asked not being answered, or atleast not properly (the same as the arguements for the A123s for the UK champs). Thank god Kane Aston is actually talking some sense - but why doesnt anyone else?
Stu
If you feel that way about my messages then I would suggest you re-read them all.
*I have never once in a single one of my messages criticised the FRA - at most I have expressed disappointment at the way the responses of individuals have been expressed
*I have honestly explained (when asked directly) why I am currently not a member of the FRA
*I have never said I am relaying messages or stiring on behalf of others - I quote to seek answers to some questions on behalf of a minority (a personal decision without consultation with others) - in other words I have asked questions that I believe effect a section of the community but have not spoken to anyone else in forumulating my opinion
*I have persisted in asking these specific questions and routinely tried to lead the conversation away from it becoming criticism of the FRA
For me, Grant is spot on in his assessment that the biggest problem is questions that have been asked not being answered.
Some people take the questions to mean something they are not and read far too much into them. Some people choose to believe there are deeper ulterior motives that are not there.
In my opinion it can only benefit us all if sensible questions can be asked and are answered in a constructive manner. Thus building a foundation of trust and understanding and avoiding all the suspicion and discord.
I asked a sensible question of the EOs, Jonno has answered in a constructive manner as has another EO privately. I thank them both for doing so - they have answered my questions and whilst I may still disagree with the decision I respect their views and abide by them.
I just wonder why if you had a question to ask of the event organisors, why didnt you just email us... you know how to contact us all ???
And we would have responded with our reasons, and you could have relayed them to whoever you are representing.
Then we wouldnt be in this situation, and we would be all looking forward to the year.
I see it time after time where threads are created on this PUBLIC forum, when a simple email to someone in my opinion would have been a much better route to take.
John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.ukwww.RoamingRobots.co.uk
P.s Ewan i am still waiting for a responce to my questions.
Oh one more thing.... going back to the original reason for this post... Happy New Year :)
Ive just been following the thread lightly, theres a number of thought provoking stances that have been taken, nothing that should be censored from discussion I think.
Re Jonno:
When did you last attend an event? - Last July
Have you ever been a member of the FRA? - For two or three years, wasnt last year
Is the reason you don€™t come to events because of the FRA? - No, not as a direct provocation, other issues of time and money are bigger players. That isnt to say that the bureaucratic madness that is often swirling above me isnt a contributing factor. Some particular players in the FRA take far too an aggressive and unwelcoming stance in my experience; I take particular issue with the current president
Do you see having the FRA over the last 3 years a waste of time? - No, but certain elements have proven needless, the focus of the organisation needs changing I think
What is the problem with the FRA in your opinion that stops you wanting to both join it, and also be part of it? The FRA needs to more clearly justify its main expense of insurance, I do not believe that a unified ruleset demands insurance aside from an EOs own - the FRA should be a medium for discussion and not actually a material holder of insurance (and rule cover) responsibilities. I am not convinced of its current performance in promoting the sport; improvements could be made in this area. I am most certainly not impressed with the current president - his recent claims in this thread, for example that we wouldnt have a forum without the FRA as a charging body (rubbish), that this forum is uncensored (haha) and that now all event organisers are now comfortable with each other (perhaps, at the expense of killing off Extreme Fighting Machines, one of the EOs with most potential as I saw it) seem like an unrealistic squirming to find quotable achievements by the organisation as it stands. He is one of the most unfriendly people I have met, whether he takes particular issue with me or not it doesnt seem like the best person to be heading our sports organisational and promotional body.
That took a bit of serious thinking. Back to the nitrous oxide I go
that this forum is uncensored (haha)
Time and time again people are told the situation around the forum. Yet people like you continue to propigate rumours. Its offensive and I take that personnally.
If this was a censored forum you wouldnt hold an account here that is for sure.
And to add, XFM killed themselves off... For an event organiser with most potential they failed to make a single step towards working to improve problem areas.
....despite their demanding that something had to be done to improve arena safety after an incident at Wickstead.
Kane, that a forum should be moderated to me is a no brainer. It is a public forum and there is no place for name calling and rude behaviour.
However, in the past has been the case where messages were posted, then disappeared without trace, and once asked where they went somehow reappeared again at a later date. Now you know this happened, and I know this happened. Only the fact that they reappeared is the soul reason I say the forum is not censored. But it came very close.
If a move like that is done again on the forum I want to be sure that who ever does it makes it very clear to everyone what happened and why. Because I dont mind telling you I was very upset when postings I made with great care to get my point accross without being out of line was suddenly dropped without a single email or posting about the reason. That you moved the messages back eventually helped a little but still...
Leo/Ewan; i believe they were only removed so they could be shown between the FRA reps to varify they should be allowed on the forum.
Re Jonno: Happy new year lol
You are quite right to say that Leo. Posts will always be moved if they should not be where they are posted. Unfortunately it is not always possible to dedicate time to moderate the board and where it is not possible to fully resolve the situation immediately the posts will be hidden until further discussions can take place with the parties involved. Part of the resolution to the situation was obviously to move posts to a more suitable location. Secondly we now have an area where event organisers can announce their events without being sidetracked by seperate discussions, while still maintaining an area where ongoing discussion can continue unhindered.
happy new year partner
hope you enjoy the sleepless nights with the new baby
remember about doin that thing for me b4 april
Moderation a no-brainer? Internet sites are not exempt from laws against such things as libel for example despite any disclaimer(s) that may be put there.
Dave is correct. At the time the thread (or section therein) was removed rather than individual contributions for verification. The messages did not reappear at a later date but after only an hour or so.
If it ended up being removed permanently then there would have been an announcement.
Now it seems we are off again on another pointless tangent that has already been discussed to death!
Now it seems we are off again on another pointless tangent that has already been discussed to death!
Might as well get into the discussion about the active robot LEDs again then. That one lasted a while :)
Karoline, if you read my post better you would see what i said was that the need for moderation is a no-brainer.
And if it was done to death I would not have brought it up.
To Tim - i do understand your position and i did answer your question to the eos above.
We supported this because we feel that the work of these voulenteers (including ourselves) should be supported especially when both us as event organisers and all of us as roboteers simply rely on the work that has been done and taken for granted
The problem is as has been said. this is how it should be.
-question
-discusion
-answer
some of the time we get
-question
-discusion
-blured answer that doesnt fully answer the question
This causes problems especially on controversial questions where somebody simply would like an answer but doesnt get it and so it all gets stired up and question marks are still left.
If a thread had been done to death then the question would not have been raised. we simply need to answer clearly to the best of our knowledge and it wont come up again.
To Geoff. im an EO, cant run for your position :) seriously though It is a shame you feel the way you do. Of course i appreciate your work and the work of all the FRA reps (the eos have also put alot of work in to help the FRA aswell). However the way you protray yourself on this forum hasnt done your work any justice. proof of this is in peoples reactions. Dont forget on the forum is the only time people hear of you out side events. Keep up with the good work and i certainly hope you both reconsider your decisions.
Geoff/Andy at least stand again, surely if you win then its the votes that speak for themselves?
James, apologies for not mentioning you in my previous post and thank you for your answer to my first question.
Adrian,
The reason I will standing down at the end of my term is simple.
I will have completed a full six years in the job.
It is about time that someone else had a turn.