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Now thats out of the way, if anyone wishes to complain about me any further, I would like it if everyone could just lay off. Please.
Youre not in any position to say that: as Martijn said, youre the new guy, so that makes you a prime target for criticism, whether it be good or bad, until your bots improve. Take it like a man.
Yeah, I also vote against Paul switching bots too. =P
I only look at some of the stuff in other peoples stats and say that looks cool, Ill try that, virtually everyone does.
wha-what are you talking about. I dont do this, SNIJDER IS AN ORIGINAL DESIGN FROM AN ORIGINAL IDEAL :[
I didnt mean it like that.
Its a joke Paul, lighten up =P
Once in a while though, it helps to come up with your own ideas without copying anyone else€™s. Using other people€™s ideas is generally accepted here, as long as you have a little understanding of that features purpose. €œVirtually everyone does€ will probably cause some negative feedback here, the majority of people here actually come up with their own designs and research, regardless of what the current trend is - I am one of the ones that this doesn€™t apply to€¦
Thanks for clearing up the top armour situation, but still, 10mm Hardox is pushing the limits a bit here. 6-8mm would do the trick, but that€™s still pretty heavy and could still be thinned out more. In terms of motors, ForcePower has never used S28-300 MagMotors like those in Sky-Blast. In fairness the original had 8x S28-400€™s but that€™s just comedy value. :proud: Those with more knowledge than me in this area would probably agree that 4x S28€™s at 24v isn€™t going to get you 80hp.
For the ground clearance, the fact is that 2mm is not enough to move freely. We€™ve all been through this numerous times; it just doesn€™t work as tried and tested by the real things. I€™m a believer that 7-8mm is decent for maximum mobility. Being tough to grab is nice, being tough to control is not€¦ 25mph is probably a speed, which would get you out of most trouble and maybe 30mph at the absolute maximum.
Please try to understand these aren€™t to be taken as harsh comments, they are constructive criticism. As a n00b in the world of vapourbots some 5 or 6 years ago, every piece of advice I was given I noted down in a Word document for future reference. I could then make sure this problem didn€™t occur again, and also pass this advice down to others that may of needed it. We have lacked any new blood here for quite some time and you seem to be a legitimate top contender, and all we are trying to do is help you become more successful here.
Its your choice to take these comments or ignore them, sure, I€™m not the best guy round here to offer advice with my track record - but I am someone that was new one day, listened to what people advised me to do and ended up gaining decent results. Please don€™t be put off by this, as the newcomer you are automatically at risk of being bombarded with advice, but don€™t take it the wrong way. :)
I was thinking about giving my 2 cents in a bigass post, but I think Andy is SPOT ON here, surely competing for the MN2 Sportsmanship-Award :proud:
Above all tough,I very much feel I should say how good it is to see new competitors entering this game.
I actualy built several heavyweights for real, so I usually get what you guys try to do and someyimes I think that will never work but for the sake of argument I let it go. The opposite is also true, for example exposed wheels usualy dont get knocked of the robot, but again I let that go because it makes the fight look better.
But if there are stats that are too outrageous I normally will say so.
As for the Hardox, a plate of 1000mm x 1000mm x 1mm is 7.8 kg. 10mm makes it 78kg in weight if you use an entire 1m2 plate. Now you might think that your robot is not 1m2, but start thinking in 3 dimensions and you will notice that the surface area is pretty big.
Most roboteers, including me, dont use hardox all over any thicker than 4mm. Some do 6 or 8 mm in key areas but all over is just too heavy.
Come on, ONE of my bots has got to be horribly overweight, why has nobody said anything about that and picking on Paul instead?
Because hes a newbie, and youve been around for over 2 years, perhaps? =P
Pretty irrelevant, no? Whats overweight is overweight.
TantoV5 is 20mm hardox sides with 15mm hardox front and 8-10mm hardox body, solid Aluminium wheels vulked and it weighs .......84kg Shock horror!! a Tanto that weighs more than 80kg!
My point is that you can use thick hardox but your robot needs to be small, less surface area equals thicker armour
and no active weapon. :)
Well being as you asked, I€™ve taken a look at yours as well Tony. :proud:
Cyberdemon: Seems fine weight wise, there are some issues with the design but I€™ll explain those another time if you want me to.
Shovearound 2: Despite what thickness armour Tanto has, it doesn€™t have lifting forks and 4x LEM-130€™s to weigh it down. I suggest maybe 10mm at the front end and 6 or 7mm at the sides and back with maybe 4mm on top. The four LEM€™s aren€™t all that necessary and chopping them down to 2 could save you 6 or 7 kilos.
Terror Gear 3: Not bad, but there€™s no need for the six PERM 032€™s. Just one for the weapon would work just fine, and just a couple for the drive. Maybe go for some LEM-130€™s here for drive again.
Novastorm 2: Again, is there a need for the four drive motors? Otherwise it looks ok, but look into a couple of decent Mags for this one.
Stalker 2: The weight is ok, but significantly I know of featherweights that use Astroflights for drive and EV Warrior€™s for weapons.
SUNCUST: The weight seems to be alright with this one.
Shotgun Slapper: Sort the drive train out again, but the weight is good.
Jack Kennedy: Again, just change those four motors to two better ones.
Anyone else? :proud:
Meh, whats important here is that vapourbotering is an RPG where the rules merely state choose some parts and try to keep them within the weight limit. This loose approach boosts creativity and realism (to an extend), but also makes stuff complicated since there isnt a clear stat bar (or however normal games work) to fill up. More expirienced vapourboteers have learned it, some still make mistakes here and there, and newcomers often have more trouble, thats very understandable really.
And even if you were loosy at this Tony, that would just mean youd be stuborn, making loosy stats for 2 years (which youre hardly). Pauls brand new and can learn.. has to learn actually, to become a dangerous competitor (and seeing the research he already did to get here, Im sure he can be one).
Yeah.
Hurry up with those stats Matty!:proud:
jk
(Message edited by MajinB on November 16, 2007)
If you are stuck, my tip for starting out is to basically find a similar robot that someone else has designed, and modify thier stats into your own, leaving motors and more technical things alone (which should be fine, as youve picked soemthing approprite) Im not saying copy people, but take advantage of the knowledge of others until you get your footing.
The other trick with weight is to have a sort of mental checklist of where your weight is going to be distributed - take weapons, armour, drive and give weight accordingly. There are not any robots with tornados power with a huge disc, but if you dont have any weapon then that gives you lots more weight for armour. Its just finding the balance with what you want.
The last ip is that its usually not the most powerful bot that wins overall - its the most versatile. Unless its Aaron.
AJ tanto is 80kg and has 2 eteks, as they weigh 11kg each yes u could fit 4 LEM130s in I nearly did it (bar the money) and if u fitted the lems you would have the room to fit a linear actuator and build on a forklift,
its perfectly feasible
Youd never get the power of 4 LEM130s to the ground anyway, so its a waste of weight, and having 20mm Hardox is also a waste of weight when there is nothing currently in the combat field able to bend 10mm.
There is a lot you can do with 100kg...
2 LEM130s and 5mm hardox armour is good enough in my eyes...
having 20mm Hardox is also a waste of weight when there is nothing currently in the combat field able to bend 10mm.
thats the point, nothing will touch it, you call it a waste i call it protection Ive built a robot that will last for years and years
Craig, you could have 11mm of hardox, which still nothing can bend, and make better use out of the weight thats been dropped.
I would certainly not put 20mm of hardox on any bot I build...
(Message edited by kodster on November 20, 2007)
then you underestimate building a robot Kody. every robot has a purpose, Tanto is deisgned to fast powerfull and unbreakable its an insurance policy against any future spinners, crushers, axes and anything else that could be built to tackle them too.
its very narrow minded to build a robot that can only survive the current crop of weapons, what happens when something new comes out thats more powerfull than the rest? build a new one? why bother doin that when you could build something thicker that will last alot lot longer
quote:
what happens when something new comes out thats more powerfull than the rest?
THEN you put on extra armour. You dont have to add armour if theres nothing out there that can damage your current armour. When something new comes along, well, see my first statement.
thats more expensive though Kody :P
If Craig lives by the philosophy that this new weapon is right across the corner, then hes damn right in thinking 20 mm Hardox is helpful :P
As they say, prevention is cheaper than cure.
With the life cycle of a combat robot, I dont see the point of adding extra this and that for something that isnt here. If something new and powerful comes out that can bend 10mm, your probably due an upgrade on the bot anyway...
As I recall, Tanto is in its 5th version, what is that, a rebuild every 12-18 months?
approx every 2 years, it done due to change in avalible parts and rule changes, means i can build closer to my original idea for tanto, 5 years ago i couldnt of built the current and along the way it came closer and closer but also along the way the oppenents got stronger so did my will to build a tanto closer to my original plan. V5 is about as close as im gonna get, its only 20mm longer than my original idea the rest is about spot on
Are we all drifting away from the fact we may wish to see this tornument start?
Ive done some revising on facts and I have decided to make modifications to some of my machines entering.
MeCANNIBAL
€ WEIGHT: 110KG (SHUFFLER)
€ ARMOUR: 5MM HARDOX
€ SHAPE: INVERTIBLE LOW CYLINDER
€ MOTORS: 2 x ETEKS AT 46V = 30HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 2 SHUFFLING PADS
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 80CM (W) 80CM (H) 15CM
€ COLOUR: BLACK WITH SCARY HUMAN FACE WITH OVER SIZED TEETH COLOURED RED.
€ WEAPONRY: RING SPINNER, MADE OF 20MM HARDOX, WEIGHTING 38KG, SPINNING AT 3500RPM, PRODUCING 205KJ PER BLOW. IT HAS 6 BLUNTENED TEETH MADE OF HARDOX. THE TEETH ARE SET IN A TRIANGULAR SET UP. HAS 5 INCHES WORTH OF TITANIUM SHOCK-PROOF FOAM TO STOP IT SELF-DESTRUCTING.
€ SPEED: 22MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM-4MM. IT HAS A FULL-BODIED SKIRT RUNNING COMPLETELY ALONG THE GROUND THAT RAISES WHEN THE SHELL IS SPINNING BUT DROPS WHEN THE SHELL ISN€™T SPINNING.
€ STRENGTH: SCARY NAME AND WEAPON
€ WEAKNESS: HARD TO CONTROL
SKY-BLAST
€ WEIGHT: 100KG
€ ARMOUR: FRONT/TOP 10MM HARDOX. REAR/SIDES 5MM ALUMINIUM
€ SHAPE: BOX WEDGE WITH CONVAVE FRONT, ALSO CONCAVE SIDES AND A ROUNDED REAR
€ MOTORS: 4 S28-300 MAGMOTORS AT 24V = 80HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 4 VULKALON WHEELS
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 50CM (W) 40CM (H) 29CM
€ COLOUR: SKY-BLUE WITH WHITE CLOUDS
€ WEAPONRY: A FIRESTORM STYLE FLIPPER ON TOP. FULL-PRESSURE CO2 FLIPPER, CAPABLE OF FLIPPING 3000KG.
€ SPEED: 32MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 5MM AT SIDES AND REAR
€ STRENGTH: SPEED AND POWER
Sky-Blasts change shows you are trying to improve the realism of your bots and will be approved by me
The new MeCannibal however is effectively a new version (if only by a small difference) of the old one, and therefor Ive decided to open a poll for this again... to that I wanna add Paul that RING SPINNERS can work perfectly well with a skirt like that, unlike TRANSLATIONAL SPINNERS like Grizzly Bear
Which brings me to Grizzly Bear... it originally had a skirt but I remember that being legally removed before the draw was done... just to get the facts straight, could you please re-post Grizzly Bears stats correctly Paul?
€ MOTORS: 4 S28-300 MAGMOTORS AT 24V = 80HP
You did see that though Martijn?
I seem to have lost Grizzly Bears stats, but I remember taking away the skirts as it was recommended by AJ.
I wouldnt say the slight changes to MeCannibal were to improve it, actually quite the opposite - If like AJ I wish to improve MeCannibal, Im taking weight off to make changes easier in the near future.
I thank Martijn for being quite leniant, but I opject to the fact that you said that Ive designed a completely new verison.
can i enter Envy?
Obviously, you cant.
yeah Aaron, I saw that, and I know those numbers are off, but taking off that weight is a jump in a good direction IMO :proud:
Matty and I have decided over MSN that Matty wont have Boxing Clevers stats finished in the near future and that Boxing Clever is to be swapped with one of his bots that I actually have stats for, randomly.
Faith has decided that Boxing Clever shall be replaced by B2B, which means I currently have all the info I need to kick Heat A and the entire tournament off, which I will do in the very near future by announcing the draw!!!
Heat A
Psyclonised (1) vs Terror Gear 3 vs B2B
Sky Blast vs Panicking vs Cyclone Force 2.5
Gimme your predictions, gimme your tactics, gimme your thoughts :proud:
Alriiiiiiiiiiiight. :proud:
Psyclonised (1) vs Terror Gear 3 vs B2B
Psy is going through no matta WHAT. Its the problem deciding between TG3 and B2B, but Im gonna say B2B to survive.
Sky Blast vs. Panicking vs. Cyclone Force 2.5
Being realistic...Sky Blast could actually get through here if Panicking decides to go after Cyclone Force. But Im going to say Sky Blast to go out because its way too small and, really, the others will be able to outdo it due to experience.
CYCLONE FORCES TACTICS
For the record, the set-up Ill be using for all my battles will be Set-Up 1 unless otherwise stated. Use the speed to my advantage, dodge and attack as and when Im feeling anti-social.
Heat A
Psyclonised (1) vs Terror Gear 3 vs B2B - I do believe that actually Psyclonised wont get through no problem. I believe it will most likely get through, and will be joined by Matts well armoured flipper that is B2B.
Sky Blast vs Panicking vs Cyclone Force 2.5 - Looking at Kodys post, I agree that experience does help, but it doesnt make a robot nessercasily better.
Im going to gang-up WITH Cyclone Force on Panicking, if its fine with Chris. My higher speed and ramming force might cause some damage to its aluminium armour.
If I get under Panicking or my team-mate, then Ill ram it into the sides and flip it out.
Psyclonised (1) vs Terror Gear 3 vs B2B
8mm Titanium and 7mm Ti/V? Time for a feast! :proud:
I think all I can do is spin up and hit the first thing in sight. Neither can stand up to the attacks that well really so hopefully Ill be through the first round. Im open to teaming up with either if they are interested...
However I feel the champs days will be numbered sooner rather than later. :proud:
Avoid MOABIE?