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If the RFL makes remarks like that, Im not that impressed.
I myself, with my aversion of flying, and no active robot except Malankaia Baba Yage wont suffer from the rule changes.
The worst that can happen to me, and a lot of Uk/Dutch/German roboteers is that the FRA accepts the restrictions and rules on pneumatics as set by the current RFL regulations.
Mario ....its only an individual posting on the RFL Forum.
Its also my personal posting Woody. I could edit my posting, but I do not see the non involvement of the RFL in this.
If geoff or Andy would make a remark like that, it would be equaly seen as a FRA opinion.
Dont worry Mario, there is no chance of that happening...
Ill just have to pursuade the RFL to addopt our regulations!! :wink:
Its interesting to see how the opinions have shifted since 2004, reading back the Encouraging International Competition / Harmonizing Rules Thread.
Just an off-topic quetion to anyone who knows the answer?
Robot wars started in America..So thats were the weight rules started. How come the English robot wars rules and the American robot wars weight limits were different to start with?
http://members.toast.net/joerger/whowon.htmlhttp://members.toast.net/joerger/whowon.html
They never were really constant......sort of changed and evolved.
I believe we started out with the same weight as the U.S. had in 1997.....
http://www.rexx.demon.co.uk/robotwars/wedgehog/Rules.htmhttp://www.rexx.demon.co.uk/robotwar...ehog/Rules.htm
Finally upped to the new weights in 2001?
Hiow many combat robots are there in the world? Here is a guestimate. Hard information and informed guesses that help to refine this would be interesting.
In the USA alone: there are 339 robots of featherweight or heavier which have been active in the last 18 months. This does not include the classes of 1 lb, 3 lbs and 12 lbs which are the most popular classes on the basis of number competing (although not necessarily in audience reaction.) See http://www.botrank.comhttp://www.botrank.com, for a full listing of robots which have fought in the US in last 18 months. There are 557 below 30 lbs, not including 50 ants (150 g). The list of those over 30 lbs is:
30 pounds - 70 bots
60 pounds - 74 bots
120 pounds - 114 bots
220 pounds - 57 bots
340 pounds - 24 bots
total 339
In Australia there are 72 feathers (30) pounds, plus an unknown number of other machines, which might be zero, its not clear (http://rankings.robowars.comhttp://rankings.robowars.com) if they have other weight classes.
That gives a total of 411
I would guess that in the UK we have 50 heavies and 100 feathers which have been active in the last 18 months, for a grand total of 561. To this we need to add robots from the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany and further afield - Korea, Brazil, etc. Say 600 in all. [We might be able to double that figure if we count robots that have not been active in the last 18 months - there were a lot that were built for Battlebots and Robot Wars resting in basements and garages.] There are probably 10,000 sumo robots in Japan but we are only looking at combat machines of featherweight and over here.
So if we look at the 600 active machines of featherweight and over they are distributed as follows:
US 57%
UK 25%
Australia 12%
Rest of world 7%
Total 101% (rounding errors)
Is this an accurate picture of the world of fighting robots?
Is this proposal going to be voted on, and if so, when?
There are voices in the DRG and GRA who would like to have this debate voted on so they can get on with building in the weight limit that is going to be set (one of them being me).
The last bit of Geoffs post of Saturday, 22 July, 2006 - 1:09 pm:
quote:
As to a time scale, first the FRA/DRG/GRA will need to formaly discuss and vote on the changes. Once this has happened our constitution requires that any changes to the specifactions will not take effect for a further 3 months to allow teams to make any changes to their machines.
So Im fairly certain that there will be no changes before early 2007.
As to when those formal discussions take place - it certainly wont be before the UK Champs.
(Message edited by anukhet on July 31, 2006)
As i posted above - The sooner the better.
I am thinking i will finish my feather to 13.6kg as a can see the change not happening. The only trouble is , if i do that i wont be able to go to a couple of rounds of the Winter tour as i hoped because ill be overweight.
A speedy resolution to this issue is a must!
Chop chop :wink:
i think if the limit does go up, ill just fight with ploughbot as it is, and make another machine to 13.6kg.
Im actually thrilled to see this much discussion - even with the included disention.
The goal is of course to have one rule set in all countries. Not just weights. But I figure that we do it step by step, not one giant leap. With this much discussion on just weights, imagine how much there would be if we included penumatics, etc.
I do agree that the RFL should update its pneumatic policies, so thats something you can see us giving in on... ALthough many other weight classes are changeing for the RFL -presuming the FRA, GRA, and DRG do the same (Australia and Brazil currently follow RFL rules.)
If we can pass this, we can then start on pneumatics, flames, etc.
While a great many builders will not compete in other countries, the goal of this measure is for the long term growth of teh sport - other people WILL cross-sompete, and we as a collective group will all be taken more seriously be the media, sponsors, and new builders if everyone has teh same rules. I offered teh weights as a start. While I fundamentally dont care what the weight classes are, I do care that theyre consistent - and I fundamentally believe that this will help us all. So I proposed wight classes which used the best of all groups and tried to use even intergers when displayed in both lbs and kilos (which if anything, is a nod towards your end of teh pond.)
Its also something that should be done while there are FEWER bots, not MORE...
Anyway, I appreciate everyones interest in this - and especially the support its getting. I think working toegther is in everyones interest, and I look forward to working even more closely with you guys as we move forward.
David Calkins
RFL Commisioner, (et al.)
Well, in the RFL forum for some reason beyond me there has been some dissention all of a sudden.
quote:
I consider it a dumb request to ask the largest population of robots with the longest standing stable set weight standards to change to the few that were too stupid to select their weights on existing standards. That is what I consider.
-Dick
Yep......Dick :wink:
Dick hasnt stolen his name.
Over here, we do consider the move to 30 lbs and would talk about other rules.
But with remarks of guys like Dick, I would say, I dont buy American.
Unfortunately the RFL gets its share of the Vocal minority. There are 4 or 5 people who are complaining about possible changes and a majority that will work with any rules if it will help the sport!
I personally dont care one way or the other I build for events I plan to attend I built the new Sewer Snake for a UK event 2 yrs. ago It would have been an untested bot at the Phantom Event World Champ. and was changed for longer fights, and the possible need for a removable link. But now Its ready to retire, and Id like to get to play there before I rebuild again!
Matt
TPC
Just skimmed through the first hundred posts and it appears that there are three main opposers to the unification concept. The vast majority seem to support the idea and simply want to get on with it.
I wont write off all Americans because of the views of the few.
The most of the americans fortunately have the same attitude towards the rule change as us. If it helps our sport forward, fine, implement them asap and lets get on with it.
well the UK champs are over, are there plans to revisit the weight limits?
I realise that I am probably jumping the gun quite considerably but I think its important that it doesnt disappear off the radar.
Just a thought, what happens about radios? Obviouslyu people from different countries run on different band widths!
Well they were the first to start a 2.4Ghz craze and its relatively easy to borrow a different tx/rx combo for an event if need be, so as long as you dont start transmitting on an illegal frequency in another country Im sure youd be OK!
I think that we will just have to make do as far as radios go unless we all were on 2.4gig
Frequencies allowed depend on the country you are competing, its not under our control so they will have to abide by the regulations just like we do.
we were allowed to use 40 meg in the states although I am not saying that that will be true of every trip. It did however make getting the transmitter out far easier :)
2.4 gigs is legal both here and in the US. It would be interesting to hear what those who operated 2.4 gigahertz at the UK Champs have to say about it. The one machine I saw operating with it had no problems. Also 27 megahertz is legal both here and in the US.
John you should take alook at the 2.4Ghz radio control thread in the Safety Discussions section, reports and comments are just starting to come through.
Short answer on Tx freq issues in the US.
Many Eruo freqs are illegal, depending on how you read the laws (or not, depending on how you read them.)
Im not the FCC, and my concern is with two Txs on the same freq, not what freq that is. If the FCC comes down on us and has an officer there, they can enforce it. Its not our job to worry about a micro-watt transmitter operating on a freq that no one outside our event is using. Its not like your interfearing with air traffic control...
If a bunch of guys come over with 40 MHz Txs, my greatest concern would be making more clips for the respectvie freqs. (we do run tight freq control as to if your Tx is on when that particular channel hasnt been checked out - thats a safety issue, nothing more.)
The 2.4 operating frequency will be discussed at the next FRA meeting. There are potential safety issues to be worked out. ( These do not concern the frequency its self at the moment )
At the UK champs 2.4 users were allowed to keep their transmitters as there was only a few of them. A robot did have an out of control problem when useing 2.4. This is being investigated as to the cause.
Regarding weights etc, the FRA have had no proposals from the RFL to discuss.
We have offered the RFL a meeting to chew over things but so far have not replied to our mail.
I think that the problem was found out to be something to do with the speed controller in the end - Dont quote me on it but i think they ruled out the radio as the cause but further testing was needed to determine the problem. I have just tested mine and they work very well. Failsafes perfect everytime and no glitches.
As far as I know, there were no issues with 2.4GHz. Could you email me details please. The only issue I know about was with 40MHz PCM and a dodgy aerial connection.
(Message edited by kane on August 30, 2006)
A robot did have an out of control problem when useing 2.4. This is being investigated as to the cause.
to Andy
Yes Kane has been round my house tonight and its a roboteq problem (again) it just does not talk to the laptop or do a self test but internals look ok (ish) we are working on it
but needs to go back for repair so it may be the end of roboteq for me
Andy says:
Regarding weights etc, the FRA have had no proposals from the RFL to discuss.
We have offered the RFL a meeting to chew over things but so far have not replied to our mail.
Perhaps David Calkins could ask the RFL for a response. In any case, the FRA does not need a proposal - we could unilaterally change our weight limit for feathers from 12 kg to 13.6 kg. The RFL and FRA would then have the same weight limit for feathers which would hopefully become a world standard.
I second John Frizells Above post.
Why do we need to wait for and RFL response?
We only change rules after consultation with all concerned parties and and then take a vote of the governing body.
This consultation process has not yet finished.
Should you wish to build a 13.6 KG robot there is nothing to stop you.
If an event organiser will not allow more than 12 KG in their arena you do have a problem.
Please read the aims of the FRA, the 2nd aim talks about consitency of build rules ie it is not our aim to change them every week to suit an individual.
This subject is to be discussed at our next FRA meeting along with much more pressing items affecting our sport.
Glen, can I respectfully suggest that you join our cause and become a member of the FRA
John, we are now in touch with David Calkins.
Kane, I do plan to join the FRA when my robot is finished.
However, due to the situation, im in somewhat of a limbo waiting to see what happens. My aim was to debut the feather at Folkestone this year in some whiteboards. Since this proposal was announced ive stopped all weight reduction work i was doing to get under 12kg. I dont want to waste time getting under 12kg only to see 2 months later the limit go up to 13.6kg.
Being that ive only to wire the weapon and sort the batteries i could be finished in a week but at around 13kg (If jonno would allow this for the time being then thats fine. If not then ive got to wait).
Was just trying to give you guys a nudge as i didnt know if anything was happening behind the scenes.
Its on the agenda so thats good.
(Sorry for the impatience, but being close to finishing i just wanna come and have a play:))
As this is a big rule change I dont expect that it will go ahead quickly, no matter how much people try and rush it on here. Id fully expect it not to be implemented for 6-12 months, people need a lot of notice before such a big change even after it has been decided either way, and although its only my opinion I certianly will be tring to delay its implementation past the 3 month minimum to give everyone time to adjust.
Im not so sure it is such a big transition. When during robotwars the heavy weightlimit went up to 100kg, we all took it in our stride and continued without too much fuss.
Whoever is on 12kgs can just stay on 12kg, or add stuff to increase. Either way you can be just as competative.
There will be a Huge difference in spinner powers, axes and 6mm Hardox boxes in 13.6kg. I already have astro drive, 4mm hardox armour and a fairly good lifter/selfrighter, sticking another 1.6kg of hardox all over just isnt fun :sad: