*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Razer would beat Dominator II easily, simply because it has the lowest ground clearance ever. Even if it had difficulty getting a grip on the shell (which it wouldve, see its fight with Aggrobot in the 3rd war) it would just push it into a wall, corner or down the pit (see its fight with Backstabber in the 3rd war). Plus Dominators axe is inaccurate and ineffective (and has been since the 4th war) so it wouldnt really do anything to Razer.

Re: Dominator II fights - both times it was against a nasty spinner, hence the producer ordered the fight to keep running in a vain attempt to get some carnage out of it. (whereas Hypno in particular were doing the sensible thing and treating it as a sport, hence preserving the bot for the next round. 13 Black did this to a lesser extent IIRC)

Domintors axe is innacurate and ineffective (and has been since the 4th war).

Er, explain these then:

RW5

Dominator 2 beats wheely big cheese

RW6

Dominator 2 pumps Hydra full of holes.

RWE2

Dominator punctures the disc of 13 black.


Granted, its not the most powerful axe around, but it is effective and shouldnt be underestimated.

RW5

Dominator 2 beats wheely big cheese

WBC broke down (thats why it won), offering an easy target, and the axe took a lot of hits to penetrate. (and earlier in the competition it had similar trouble getting through King Bs weakly armoured chassis - if that had been the 4th war, King B wouldve been full of holes and smashed internally)

RW6

Dominator 2 pumps Hydra full of holes.

Hydra had weak armour that any axe couldve holed.

RWE2

Dominator punctures the disc of 13 black.

Dont recall that one, but the discs, although thick, are not made of material that stands up to piercing well (I think).

I know armour went up the minute the weight limit did, but the axe also seemed more unstable in its motion than it first did (back in the 4th war it was smooth, accurate, deadly powerful and everyone felt the damage - including the well-armoured 101). And IIRC they did change it after the 4th war to try and make it more powerful - maybe they did a Mortis and made it worse by trying to make it better.

I know it sounds like Im being offensive/disrespectful to everyone (and I apologise for that if I have offended anyone), but it comes from watching the show and noticing the trends in various robots, designs etc. (as well as being a walking encyclo of RW battles) and whether it be down to the axe being less effective and/or armour being more effective, the fact remains that Dominator II cannot deal the damage that it could in the 4th war (it could damage anything back then, now it can only damage weaker shells), and thats why I said it was inaccurate and ineffective.

Hmm. Perhaps I should have qualified this by saying I was wondering about Razer vs Dominator as of about season 5. When Dominator had exposed wheels theyd have been an easy target (as Wild Thing demonstrated).

Dominators axe shouldnt be underestimated, nor should Razers armour be overestimated. Mind you, the armour might flex to absorb the blow better than a lot of designs - but its still not well suited to making the axe glance off, nor it it particularly well shock mounted (without having peered inside in real life, so please add the qualification that Im probably talking nonsense) internally. Getting past the wings might be a problem, but equally the wing supports might get damaged by the axe.

Dominators axe *is* powerful - even though its not in the same league as the heavy axes of Thor or THz (or Beta) which are designed to damage the frame as much as the armour. Bigger Brother has decent armour, and Kat3 (with a Dominator-esque design) penetrated it recently. A small point could damage Razers internals more than some robots, and once hooked on (even to the beak) Dominator has more tyre on the floor than Razer has and would probably win a pulling match.

I was thinking more in terms of defence, though - Razer would not be particularly strong in defence against Dominator, where I genuinely think theres little they could do to the larger bot.

Getting the axe assembly would require a lot of precision (does Razer have the reach?) and its not a weak bit of metal... and I think theyd slide off the shell almost everywhere else. They might be able to grab between the front forks, although Im not sure that theyd do much damage if they did, and theyd be open to hits from the axe and being rammed (the forks being thick titanium). Being underneath doesnt necessarily help.

Grabbing them from behind, lifting the wheels off the ground, and pitting them might work - but it would require a lot of precision. I maintain it would be an interesting fight, and if Razer won it then it would be a great testiment to its drivability and Ians driving skills.

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Fluppet

Obvious that most people dont know Dominator to well.

The armour looks sturdy, and can take a hit.But isnt the best around.
As for frame,everything inside is mounted on a polycarb plate, not a real frame in there.

For the rest, it is a good machine ,with everything done according to the good practise in RW.

But Razer is still a class on its own.
To say who can beat who- the Luck factor is just to big- but good enginering and solid build help to attract luck.

If Pussycats blade can pierce the armour the claw of Razer stands a good chance.

Dont get me wrong - Im not suggesting that Dominator has impenetrable armour, just that the angles of the shell arent suited to being grabbed by a vertical crusher. Dominator would do equally as well against Kat 3 - the axe would slide off rather than dig in (in contrast, Kat 3 has more flat surfaces).

Under crushing Id expect the frame to flex a bit, but Id be a bit surprised, even if Razer got a grip, if it could do anything permanent - it would be pushing on titanium plate end-on. Mind you, Mario makes a good point - the polycarb base of Dominator may well give way under pressure from the scoop.

I dont doubt that Razer could go through the side of Dominator quite easily, as did Pussy Cat (once it got a square hit), but I think it would have trouble getting into a position where the beak could point directly into the armour.

Mario: its true, I only have a cursory knowledge of Dominator (Ive read up on it, seen I think every TV appearance, and seen it at Robot Rumbles, but Ive never peered inside myself). Im not suggesting that Dominator is in Razers league (no offence, guys) in terms of general ability, but all robots are stronger against some designs and weaker against others.

I just feel that Razer is poorly suited to attacking Dominators shape (or, conversely, Dominator is a good shape for fending off vertical crushers). Conversely, I suspect Dominator would struggle badly against horizontal weaponry (Kan Opener, Big Nipper, TaN) where less tall robots (Tornado in wedge configuration, Panic Attack, Biohazard, Widows Revenge...) would do (somewhat) better.

This is one of my more spectacularly off-topic efforts. :-)

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Fluppet

TAN would just slide up the sides of dominator.

Would it? It would certainly slide up the front, but gripping it from behind Id have thought the angles were such that TaN could get a grip, at least gravity assisted. Perhaps Dominator is less vertically-sided than I remember (Ive not seen it for a while). Also, under horizontal crushing, Id expect to see a bit of give in Dominator, making the sides more vertical and enabling better grip.

Mind you, I thought the sides of Storm would be too slopey to afford TaN a good grip (although Panic Attacks skirts did a pretty good job, up until the forks got broken).

Doubt well ever see Razer vs Dominator to find out, now; are the Dominator guys still around? Id be interested to see it against a horizontal crusher, if only to test my hypothesis. (Has it been against one already? I dont remember it, but its all going hazey at my age.)

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Fluppet

No, Dominator has never fought a vertical crusher.
There seems to be a bit of dom-bashing going on now, but Dominator 2 is an impressive robot with a very good combat record, and whilst i dont think it would beat Razer, i think it would stand a better chance than most.

I think TAN would fail to grip most of Dominator, but they coud nip those wheel guards nicely.

Id also say Dominators axe, while paling in comparison to Terrorhurtz, still does the business. Remember, it killed Bigger Brother in a straight fight.

Very true about the axe, Frank. Why wouldnt TaN be able to grip Dominator? Are you just thinking in terms of sliding off vertically? Maybe youre right, but I think theyd probably get some kind of grip. Ill have to have another look at it. TaN probably couldnt grip Dominator from the front (it could just reverse out), but with the angle of the jaws around the rear of Dominator I think theyd be pretty securely clamped.

George: pretty much my point; I think they could well win it, and (polycarb failing aside) quite possibly would (well agree to differ), but I certainly wouldnt claim that any robot would find Razer a pushover.

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Fluppet

Yes, but Bigger Brother was somewhat off-form (slow, sluggish, tired etc.) in the semi-finals, and so it wasnt too difficult to dominate them (a fully fit BB would probably have had them OOTA or beaten on aggression). Having said that of course, Spawn and Hypno both failed to beat BB in the melee, but as we know they were both unreliable, something which Dominator never is. (one reason why its done quite well despite the axe - reliable robots tend to get the luck in long drawn out battles)

Theyre still a force to be reckoned with, but in a fight with another top bot, I wouldnt fancy them to win, based on the evidence from 5th/6th/Extreme fights anyway. (unless luck plays a part, which it often does. In that respect its a great endurance bot like Wild Thing is, as it always seems to last longer than the opposition and dominate at the end of fights)

Andrew: Yes they are still around - they pulled out of the 7th war with a broken base at the last minute, they wouldve been 6th seeds otherwise.

Also, whatever war its been in, 4,5 and 6, Dominator has never failed to reach the Second Round of the semi-finals, despite what everyone else thinks will happen (everyone thought WBC and BB would beat it...but NOOOOOOOOO).

No stephen They were ment to be the 4th seeds and in heat O as they lost to the winner of the 6th wars tornado

While checking the links on the old RW site, I noticed a web-page for Dominator 3. I didnt check it, but it sounds interesting:)

Also remember that Dominator 2 can out accelerate a motor bike so has very good speed.

This seems to be a very interseting thread, its turned from a world champ review, to Razer, and now to the official Dominator 2 thread!

What i think also was good about Dominator 2 apart from the speed and reliabilty and tough armour was that the axe was very sharp and could embedd deep into opponents armour even if it was thick. It could then use the torque to push about opponents and this was a good attacking combo. The usually sturdy Bigger Brother was outclassed, but they dont seem to like axe bots (Ultor, Kat 3, Dominator 2, Terrorhurtz...)

Bigger Brother, in their Ultor fight, as Ive already said, were ROBBED!

Kat 3, Dominator 2 and Terrorhurtz, OK, they did suffer, but they should have won the decition against Ultor. I mean, it was wiping the floor with the Cambridge Contraption, then its weapon (which it wasnt really using anyway) broke off...and thus it loses! That doesnt make any sense.

Of course, Ultor thought the judges decition was wrong too, and thus gave the place to them...but thats not the point.

Also, Kat 3 DID get through their armour, but really, BB lost due to driver error.

Ultor just said that i have heard it said that ultor tram had to go back to work and btw i think that ultor did dominaate that fight

I heard that Story too Martyn, but i dont know if its true.

Chris, i disagree, i think that although it was close, Ultor has won the fight on aggression. Most of the crowd and the judges agree with me. However, i was very surprised when it was handed over to Bigger Brother. I couldnt quite believe it, it was a very controversial moment.

By the way, the skill was on Kat 3s part to get the axe in there. That panel isnt easy to hit by any means.

no,

Extreme 1, new blood, when that robot which I cant remember the name of right now, opened the pit and then Dom pitted it.

Youre thinking of The Executioner...and Dominator didnt Pit it. The new boys did the job for them :proud: Fight lasted about 18 seconds, I think

Well, I dont think Executioner would have gone in the pit if they hadnt bounced of Dominator as they reversed away from the button.

Oh, by the way George it wasnt skill on the Kat 3 teams part. Im not saying theyre not skillfull, but they were aiming at Refbot at the time, who Bigger Brother knocked out of the way and so took the blow instead:)

OK.

Did Kat 3 get flipped during the fight? I cant remember.

Also, isnt bigger brothers armour 10mm titanium? Im surprised the axe got through that.

Kat 3 nearly got flipped, but not quite, I think BB must have used up most of their gas.

George, Big Brothers armour is mild steel ,and thick polycarbonate, nothing fancy like 10mm Titanium.

he has 10mm ti on the back.

I thought so.

I think the front might be mild steel though, so in a way, everybody is right :)

But what about Pussycat winning eh? Talk about skill or what!!

Actually, mainly Id talk about Mike not having repaired the link retention mechanism from what Gravity did to it. But well done to Mr Stu nonetheless - that doesnt detract from his performance. :-)

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Fluppet

Pussycat rules!!!!

Yeah, it does.

Anyways, I dont think Ive posted anything relating to this. Well done to Storm 2 for winning. It must be a wonderful thing to walk away with.

Storm 2 has done a LOT in its 1 year on RW. I mean;

-Winners of the New Blood*
-16th Seed
-First Bot to ram a bot OOTA
-Second in UK Wars
-World Champions.

I saw Storm 2 at Debenham this year, with a very easy victory over Ewe 2.
Good luck for the future

*BTW, I still dont believe people think Storm 2 vs Mute was wrong.

Equal pushing, then Mute gets two good flips in, then loses...

Equal? THAT WASNT EQUAL! Storm 2 was bullying Mute all over the place! It was the one pushing Mute and it was ramming more as well. All Mute was doing was turning to use the wedge...thus PREVENTING the push, not pushing back. At the end, those 2 flips didnt matter, Strom 2 was WAY on top from where I was. Even if it WAS edited, Storm 2 was still pushing.

Christopher

It was edited so as the audience at home would think that Storm 2 was well on top. It was a very very very even fight.

Regards
Ian

I know it was edited, and I know it WAS even, but then Storm 2 would still HAVE to had been pushing Mute around more in order to blank out the flips...thus the pushing cant have been equal.

well about 99% of the people I have talked to say mute should have won.

quoteEqual? THAT WASNT EQUAL! Storm 2 was bullying Mute all over the place! It was the one pushing Mute and it was ramming more as well./quote

True. Similar to the truth that Storm 2 was bullying Typhoon all over the place.

Well, I cant really complain, as I knew Typhoon would win, but it DID seem a bit dodgy. It was correct, but only just.

Still, theres one fight Im surprised no one mentioned.

Razer vs Behemoth (WC1)

I watched it with my Dad once, and, on first viewing, he thought that Behemoth should have won. And from where Im standing, I agree. Behemoth had much more going on than Razer.

Anyone want their own opinions.

we watched it the other day on video. I agree that Behemoth won, surely razer were immobile for 30 seconds? Even if not, Behemoth easily won. It was also similar to when they fought in extreme, Behemoth were in total control for most of the fight but somehow Razer got the win.

well, in wc1 behemoth was balancing razer on its side, and that doesent count as immobolising the oponnent, i think razer got the win for damage and style and maybe some aggresion in the beggining of the fight. on the other hand, behemoth was more controlled (facing its scopp towards razer all the time) and prety aggresive for the rest of the fight after it took damage from razer.

In WC1 (if Ive got the wrong fight here, ignore me) Razer was unable to self-right while over the flame pit because the self-righting relied on the arm being right at the limit, and it was extending through the grille in the floor (below the level of the wheels) so the self-righting angle wasnt reached. I presume it was freed by the house robots on the principle that the arena hazards arent designed to trap robots (in the same way that robots stuck under the angle grinders are freed), but maybe Im giving Mentorn the benefit of the doubt in their consistency. Razer was pretty much undamaged, but Behemoth had some big holes, mostly inflicted after Razer finally righted itself. Razer is *very* good at getting stuck on arena hazards: the flame grille vs Behemoth, the angle grinder vs Firestorm, the angle grinder vs Tornado, tail hooked under things on occasion... surprised its never been OOTAd, really.

In their other match, I gather Razer had overheating solenoid problems (or some such), and spent a lot of time running away after inflicting a little damage; they were eventually flipped just late enough that the fact they couldnt self-right didnt count against them (much to the annoyance of team Behemoth).

As for Storm 2 vs Mute in the New Blood final, thats one of the few Robot Wars fights I saw live (plus the others on that day, obviously). It was certainly hard to call, but, while Storm kept running into Mute, it certainly wasnt ramming it against the wall or anything. Since Storm was faster than Mute, its hard to see how Mute could do more to attack Storm than it was doing. Storms wedge was bent, meaning it had limited traction; paint (allegedly) was smoking off the rear wheels, and if the wedge was bent, it was (slightly) damaged. Mute had no apparent damage from where I was sitting. Id have given it, narrowly, to Storm on aggression (again, not by driving intent so much as by having the faster robot and therefore instigating the attacks), but thought if Mute gets a flip in, itll go the other way and, lo, it did.

It was a tight battle, and I wouldnt say it was as much a robbery as I gather Storm vs Typhoon was (even people not keen on Ed seem to disagree with the judges), but Id have given it the other way. Mind you, I wouldnt have given Mute the victory over Bulldog Breed (? - memorys going) or given Typhoon the win over Storm, so swings and roundabouts.

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Fluppet

Judge Shred v Mute, not Bulldog Breed Andy. :)