Are you all aware that for public performance you need to ensure you have paid licensing fees for use of music. Its a copyright infringement for which you can be fined.
See http://www.ppluk.com/http://www.ppluk.com/
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Are you all aware that for public performance you need to ensure you have paid licensing fees for use of music. Its a copyright infringement for which you can be fined.
See http://www.ppluk.com/http://www.ppluk.com/
Very much aware. The winter tour is being run together with a professional entertainment, and Id be very surprised if they didnt have a PPL.
Did you have a PPL at Robot Crusade Andrew?
And it dont matter- the Entertainment company that Romaing Robots are working with to put on these kick a** winter events has it all sorted in that area. As any Entertainment company would really.
Mr Stu
Depending on venue type most of them will probably carry there own PPL anyway.
Anywhere that has a bar with dukebox, has hosted discos, any sort of public entertainment where music is involved will have to carry one by law anyway.
Possibly a question worth having on the list for Jonno to ask though.
Sam
Enginuity has its own PPL Stu... as I said most venues that have any sort of public entertainment will have.
Sam
My suggestion for a tournament format would be a scorecard for each team listing all other teams in the competition. The first time that you fight any other team gives you a result for the scorecard 3,0,1 win, lose, draw?
Scores could also be tallied on a grid set-up.
This would mean teams attending more venues will have more chance to score more points etc.
Top 4? to do semis + final at tour end?
Roughly: 24 teams / 6 venues = 2 fights a day - easy
Schedule of fights easily worked out in advance.
Failure to turn up = loss ?
If you dont want to fight someone - dont (just lose points)
Just rambling thoughts - but very keen to use tour as an ongoing TOURnament and not just a series of close dates.
Roger.
Oh Geoff - you forgot :
Sledge Hammer Peter Gabrial - One for Thor Dude
The Fly or Acrobat U2 - ones for Mute
Hammer to Fall Queen - Thors too easy
Zoom Fat Larrys Band - one for Storm
#1 Crush Garbage - Big Nippers Tune
Boom, Boom, Boom Venga Boys - Yet another Thor
Oh, its all too easy.
Roger.
Silly question Stu! Why would we be mentioning it! Just wanted to make sure you guys were covered for appropriate license implications although it can be the organisation who is playing the music (if hired) or the venue that has the PPL.
So all of these suggestions would be irrelevant then Bob, thats a shame.
No B52s with Roam then?
Got to carry alot of spears just in case we run into some Zulus. Us British have to watch out you know :)
Jaws Theme tune.
Ive Got a crush on you - Jawbreakers
Crush on You - Lil Kim
Just Crushin - Will Smith
Others
Storm - Vanessa Mae (Storm II)
Get Higher - Black Grape (flippers)
Get Ready to Bounce - Brooklyn Bounce
I need a Miracle - Coco (Against us :))
(At least thats whats google came up with)
Roger
I like the principle of your tournament system, the only change I would suggest is win 3 points, draw 2 points and lose 1 point. At least that way some credit is given for having the balls to face up to a better opponent. A sort of reward for the tenacious ;)
Youll never win by fighting everyone and losing, but a definite incentive to face up to the challenge of better machines for those few essential extra points.
Regards
Tim
The problem I see - Hyperthetical situation:
We enter 3 fights and win all 3 (woohoo) and we get 9 points. We cant get any more fights because we cant recharge our batteries fast enough.
Another bot (with BIG batteries... or small motors) has 9 fights and looses all 9 and ends up with 9 points.
Both bots are on the same points.... offering 1 point for entering tends to make me think of entering all of the fights moving an inch and then stopping (very boring though). I think by doing this I could clean up and get around 15-20 point each day without doing any work.
A fairer option would be 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and zero for a loss. Rewards should be made for winning not just entering so that people put on the best show that they can.
The Number of fights becomes a problem so I would suggest that each robot should only get 2 competition fights each day (Depends on format). Any other fights simply dont count. At the very least all the robots need to have the same number of competition fights to make things fair. If the robot breaks down and cant be fixed in time so they dont have the required number of fights then they would simply lose out. Im assuming these are 1-on-1s, then the others could be melees. I think it should be 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss with 1 to 1 fights but if its 3 way fights then 3 for a win, 2 for second, 0 for a loss with a tie between 2 or 3 robots being 1 point each. Either way I would like to see 0 points for a loss.
2 things,
is it not correct that you are legally entitled to use up to 30 seconds of material as long as there is no financial gain? If this is different in this case, I appologise for being stupid!
Chosen my music, think it suits me and my machines quite well.
Rage against the machine - killing in the name of.
failing that anything Rage, Prodigy, or Charlotte Church.
About format :
I think that all competition fights should be pre-sheduled over the tour, to roughly 2 per day (4 per event). This eliminates Daniels underhanded tactics and allows people time to prepare for the opposition.
As to points - should Draws even be allowed ?
perhaps it should just be 1 point per win ?
though i suggest Win=5, Draw=3, Lose=1
A token point for getting in the ring.
2 Draws only just better than a single win.
Also agree with Mark, Competition should always be 1 on 1. Its only fair. Also Competition fights should only be judged by comp Judges - Or us boring box-bots will never win.
And some more :
Bi**H by Nipper : obvious
Everybody Hertz by Air : Couldnt make that up
Roger
Roger I like the suggestion for the format.
One question for any one to voice their opinions:
If the fights are prearranged what happens if your opponent isnt able to make it into the arena do they forfeit and you get 5 points or do you skip that fight and move on to the next opponent hoping to reschedule the original fight later.
It would be more entertaining for the crowd if we didnt have forefits but it seems a bit unfair that if your machine isnt in a fit state to fight that you get another chance later since halve the challenge is to keep your bot going for the whole tournament.
Richard
Team Mayhem
Without meaning to hog the discussion -
I think that a no-show or an inability to perform for a competition fight should be a forfeit, doesnt disadvantage the crowd as they neednt know.
This means that the competitive edge is kept for those wanting to be competitive, and for those less competitive, can opt out of fights they are un-prepared for or hesitant of taking on - and do a more friendly one instead.
It also increases pressure on people to attend all of the events.
Another topic - Jonno was talking about three fights per event only, because of the doubts about enough machines to fill 4 shows.
Our Survey says : Just you worry about filling the seats - and have more faith.
Just my thoughts.
Roger.
Win =5 Draw=3 Lose=1 sounds fairer to me. Should it be a requirement to be mobile at the end to claim this point? Or maybe a bonus point for surviving the bout? My thinking on suggesting a point for a loss was to prevent a scenario where someone with a lot of wins early on could sit on their laurels for the rest of the series safe in the knowledge that they had qualified for the final. Whilst it may just maintain a bit of interest throughout the tour, that final point for a loss is unlikely to have a major effect at the end of the day. The number of fights a losing machine can achieve in one day should be irrelevant, over the 6 events every point gained for losing a fight is in fact a loss of 2 or 4 points(depending on the scoring system adopted) that you could have gained if you had taken your sole chance to beat that opponent later on in the tour.
My thinking on forfeits for non working machines would tend to be that the lack of ability to put a working machine in the arena should be penalised. The best machine in the world is worthless if it wont run ;(
1 on 1 for the main comp is best IMHO, it allows more focus on the battle in hand and individual driving skills to come more to the fore, plus it is much easier to call cease if you stand to sustain unacceptable damage if you have a single opponent who is stood alongside you. Surely the need to load/unlaod just 2 machines should keep things happening for the audience more consistently as well?
Regards
Tim Jones
Hi guys, glad to see there is some healthy discussion going on.
I will post some of our comments, and thoughts we took away from the meal in the next two days.
things are mannick here at the mo.
Jonno
I feel I have to make a few comments here.
Firstly, a one on one mode is all well and good but I cant see it working in practice. Basically, lots of machines either get pitted, irretrievably stuck, or just break. This makes for a pretty short fight if there are only two machines in there. Plus, IMHO, the best format has always been three way melees.
Also you have to take the logistics into account. If all working robots expect about three fights to an event, even if there were only 10 robots, that is still 15 fights to sort! Possibly each day! How many machines are we talking here? 20 to 30 per event? Who wants to do the maths? Not to mention time for feathers.
Secondly, the points system really needs thought. The Wrexham event last year, for example. We won that event with our robot 51, purely by having more points than anyone else :). (It was 3 points for a win, 2 for second, 1 for third, providing each robot was involved in the fight to start with, 1 point was always awarded.) Simple. But, no. We were thought of as only having won as we had had more fights than anyone else. The actuality was yes, we did have more fights, we had five. And scored 12 points. Big Nipper was the only robot to have had four fights and scored 6. Crustacean came second in the oompetition, having scored 8 with only three fights. Even if only our first three fights counted (to equal Crustaceans) we would have been on an equal score. But as were were playing by the original rules, we ultimatly won fair and square.
My point? Everyone thought the scoring system was fair and good before the combat started. We almost felt ostracised by the fact we were reliable, and did not need to recharge the batteries :sad:. (Not the case now, I might add. Batteries only last one fight now, and the reliability has gone out of the window!)
There has to be some limiting on the number of countable fights one robot can have. More fights just wont be added to the ultimate score. And if you cant do that number of fights, for what ever reason, tough.
What about a format where each machine has to fight every other machine? This could still be done in a three way melee style. Just needs a basic square scoring sheet, with ticks to show what combination has happened with a separate list of scores.
As for whatever points system is chosen, just be prepared to accept it, at all stages of the tour.
Sorry to ramble, just had to get my tuppence worth in.
B
Taurus
Everyone appears to be focusing on the fact that this WILL be a competition. Im still not convinced it should be.
I would be interested to hear from those who will actually be taking part what they feel is more important. Competition or Show.
There are loads of other events where we can run competitions. But i feel the Winter Tour should be about putting on a great show for a paying audience, so that we can start to build up a greater public interest in what we are doing for the long term benefit of our hobby / sport. It needs to be a sort of showcase.
Great show does not mean Crap fights.
Im talking about just getting rid of the seriousness and complication that may arise around running a competition. Just concentrate on putting on a great show. That way it will probably be a lot more fun for all of us involved.
Heres the list of Heavyweight robots that were down earlier in this thread. put down your preference against your robot name and re-post the list.
(s) = Show
(C) = Competition
No sitting on the fence please.
Ill start it off with an (s) for EWE2
Ripper
Stealth
Bulldog Breed
Ewe 2 (S)
Torus
Judge Shred
Leveller
Behemoth
Thor
Mighty mouse
Veloceripper
Mute
Big Nipper
Scorpion
Merlin
Spearhead
Tanto
Serrano
Gman
Revolution
Air
M2
Kronic the Wedgehog
Tuscan
Mayhem
Storm 2
Dantomkia
Tomohawk
Corkscrew
St Agro
Ceros
No disrespect to the other weight classes, but lets sort the heavies out first
Ian
Tuscan - S
not the same for my feathers though
Gman S
The idea was to do this boys !!!
There there......Ill do it for you.
Ripper
Stealth
Bulldog Breed
Ewe 2 (S)
Torus
Judge Shred
Leveller
Behemoth
Thor
Mighty mouse
Veloceripper
Mute
Big Nipper
Scorpion
Merlin
Spearhead
Tanto
Serrano
Gman (S)
Revolution
Air
M2
Kronic the Wedgehog
Tuscan (S)
Mayhem
Storm 2
Dantomkia
Tomohawk
Corkscrew
St Agro
Ceros
I dont think that having a Competition as PART of the Tour eliminates the SHOW elements - but feel that a degree of competitiveness will add to the Show. I would favour a 50/50 split between competitive rounds and Showcases/Demos etc.
Competition doesnt require all out carnage and weapons blazing - more about Control and skill with no damage.
Been there and done that with wholesale carnage - dont like it. Still like competition though.
Ripper
Stealth
Bulldog Breed
Ewe 2 (S)
Torus
Judge Shred
Leveller
Behemoth
Thor
Mighty mouse
Veloceripper
Mute
Big Nipper
Scorpion
Merlin
Spearhead
Tanto
Serrano
Gman (S)
Revolution (C)+(S)!
Air
M2
Kronic the Wedgehog
Tuscan (S)
Mayhem
Storm 2
Dantomkia
Tomohawk
Corkscrew
St Agro
Ceros
Roger.
Roger, points taken and understood. But the issue i see with the competetive element is that the competition will span many events. So first rounds in Edinburgh with some teams scoring points. Then off we go to Milton Keynes and someone is winning the league/comp so far, then off we go to somewhere else.....The whole thing is meaningless to the crowd because they havent seen the earlier rounds, and wont see the next ones or finalee either!
So if you had to come down on one side of the fence, which one would it be?
Ian
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), Torus, Judge Shred, Leveller, Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin, Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano, Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog, Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros
See you dont have to create long scrollbars :) We do still need non-competition fights as Ive mentioned before so I guess (c) & (s) but more for (C)
as we will probably attend all/most events. we cant afford to take damage at an event every fortnight, we will only have two days between events (as im at Uni during the week), also having to look after 2 feathers and a middleweight. put merlin down for the show fights.
Thanks Mark and Alan,
Heres the updated list, coz Alan couldnt be *rsed to do his...just like he couldnt be *rsed to fight Cutlet and kept running away at Halesowen..........Oh God will I ever get over this?
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), Torus, Judge Shred, Leveller, Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin(S), Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano, Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog, Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros
Calm down Ian! We all know you wont get over it.
One thing we all have to remember is that this is still going to be using the roaming Robots arena. Which means there is no all out war! There is only so much that the arena can take.
What robots out there in the live event circuit cause enough damage to worry about? OK, there are some axes, and a few crushers. So how is this tour going to be any different from any other of Jonnos events?
Each event is an event in itself, and to be honest, as the audience is only there for only one of two or more shows on each day, they are only there to see the robots they know and love fight each other. Any competition is for us, the roboteers.:)
So my addition to the list is:
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), TAURUS :)(C), Judge Shred, Leveller, Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin(S), Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano, Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog, Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros
Just a thought peeps..
Sport (i.e competition) means sponsorship..
Show (i.e no competition) means none..
In terms of long term goals for keeping the pastime alive, its fairly clear which one to choose.
No flames please, Its only an opinion :)
Sam
but whats stopping us having sponsorship at jonnos events?
Jonno?
Not having found sponsors?
as far as I know he has said yes to sponsorship. I know because I was there when I publicly asked him at the tour meeting in Warwick.
:)
To change his mind now would mean something is brewing behind the scenes...... (just call me James Mulder) and I think wed all know about any problems as they arose as Jonno is not the sort of bloke to do the community down.
Sport vs show.... the long time arguement.
You know, weve nearly 9 months left to prepare the submission for recognition as a sport. If a girl on her own (with maybe 5 seconds of help) can make make a person in that time Im sure as a comunity we can make a decent case in that time.
no reason why you cant get sponsorship for a show, life doesnt have to be an all out war all of the time. honest :)
You know as much as me, and as per the meal, no reason why people cant have logos at any of our events.
Im not sure the public will realise either way if you are fighting full on or not, they just want to see robots fighting to what ever degree they can.
I like the idea of an overall winner of the tour, how is up to you guys to discuss at the moment.
But i dont think it should be the soul purpose, we need to entertain along the way.
Jonno
How about a big prize for most entertaining robot then? That should encourage everyone to try and be entertaining.
A set of Nicads and a Roboteq perhaps? Or a weekend for two in Mablethorpe :proud:
Anyone else going to do this form?
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), TAURUS (C), Judge Shred, Leveller, Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin(S), Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano, Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog, Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), TAURUS (C), Judge Shred, Leveller(S), Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin(S), Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano, Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog, Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros
There you go Ian
prize for most entertaining robot then just let you drive Ian, your sure to win! :P
:) :)
Im not quite sure how to vote on this issue. Even though my robots are usually in the also ran category and I do this for fun rather than to win, I would like to treat this as a genuine competition. I know a lot of the other roboteers involved and I trust them not to completely mince my robot once the outcome of the fight is obvious.
I do still like to show off though, and I put effort into making my robots look good whenever I can. Id even be up for an occasional staged fight so long as it does not become the norm. Entry music and showing previous fights/technical details on the screens is an excellent idea.
So my 2 cents worth is:
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), TAURUS (C), Judge Shred, Leveller, Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin(S), Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano (C), Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog, Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros
But close to S.
A question for all those that dont wish the tour to Include a Competition :
You have all been in the RR Arena over the last few events which have been classed as a competition with a declared Winner, know that it is not full-contact, but friendly competition with people who respect one another and appreciate that putting on a show is part of the job.
That said, In what way would you want Show fights to be different from the normal format?
I do firmly believe that there is a big place for Novelty-Fights in a tour (i.e. Air vs Well..anyone brave enough, Thor vs. Anti-Thor Device, Washing machine crushing etc), but not as a replacement to an established standard of competition.
My two cent question
(must be nearly up to a whole dollars worth by now)
Roger.
Kronic - S
Ripper, Stealth, Bulldog Breed, Ewe 2 (S), TAURUS (C), Judge Shred, Leveller, Behemoth, Thor, Mighty mouse, Veloceripper, Mute, Big Nipper (C), Scorpion, Merlin(S), Spearhead, Tanto, Serrano (C), Gman (S), Revolution (C)+(S)!!!, Air, M2, Kronic the Wedgehog (S), Tuscan (S), Mayhem, Storm 2, Dantomkia, Tomohawk, Corkscrew, St Agro, Ceros