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Actually Mario... it is possible to key a robot to a specific transmitter, if you use non-standard radio control equipment. Its not something that would be easy to do with off-the-shelf RC gear so I wouldnt expect other roboteers to do it. However perhaps we should have more notices at events to tell people not to use RC models.
Hi Mario (hard luck with TaN at IRR 2003, btw, I really wanted to see it run well).
Ah, I remember the guys with the R/C car outside, but Id presumed that theyd been sanctioned by the organisers. Thatll teach me to be a good spectator and check! Im glad there was no harm to the roboteers (although, as a spectator, it renewed my musings about whether a robot could break someones arm against the railing while theyre trying to play with links - my best alternative, a bull pen with a cattle crush to hold the robot still, would be large and a pain to construct, as well as slowing things down, so I hope my fears are unfounded). I concur - these things happen, whatever we try to do, and I was just indicating that at no point had an official endangered themselves in any of those cases.
That particular problem does make me wonder if it might be a bonus to have someone sitting there with a frequency scanner before each fight to check that no-one was mucking about. Wouldnt help once the fight had started, but itd be better than nothing. Dont know if anyone has the relevant kit available.
Sorry, the degrees thing was just a take on the you dont have to be mad to work here, but it helps popular in offices in the 80s - dont worry, I know you didnt mean it! Besides, roboteers will get far closer to a specialist degree in each of these fields than a member of the general public, in the course of learning while roboteering. We keep telling people its educational, after all.
If Roger has seen examples of bad practice inside other peoples machines, Im sure the professional in him rebels. Perhaps scorn isnt the most popular response with those being criticised, but hes allowed to express an opinion, especially if he feels too endangered by the level of expertise around him to be involved in the sport. When I eventually get to the stage of having a robot ready to compete on the circuit (I have no interest in Mentorn), Id love Roger to look at it and give me a dressing down for whichever bits of construction are sub-par: thatll be the way for me to learn.
Roger didnt say all roboteers are electrically incompetent, just that some might be (at least by industrial standards); Im sure I would be, in spite of my best efforts, when I first enter. The way to avoid criticism is to be above it - if you know Roger (or anyone else) cant find anything wrong with your machine, you know criticism isnt levelled at you. If your workmanship is challenged, ensure it meets that challenge!
There are always going to be novices at these events - I intend to be one, after all - and there will be people who have acquired bad habits. Perhaps it would be better to tell an individual roboteer that their wiring might be improved by doing something specific (if it improves the robot, who would mind?) rather than making everyone feel theyre being tarred with the same brush, but Im sure thats just down to a misunderstanding (the traffic has gone both ways, and Im putting all Rogers comments under the spotlight whilst - not unconditionally - defending him). Theres going to be poor workmanship; if that makes any EO or roboteer feel unsafe, theyre well within their rights to object and withdraw, although trying to help rectify the problem case-by-case would also be good.
Assuming that people cant be relied upon to wire a safety light (on topic - woohoo) properly might offend some people, but it might be true for others - and anyone can have a bad moment. I still think the light makes the correctly wired robots safer, but equally *if* assumptions are made (and weve all agreed they shouldnt be) only one robot - not the majority - needs to go wrong for there to be an accident.
That said, youd hope the quality inspection before the fight would flag up a problem, possibly with a free lesson in soldering attached from someone who *does* know what theyre doing. Even if things arent going to be perfect (and people will learn fast if their non-safety electronics keep failing), comments from an expert, even a despairing one, can only help.
Perhaps Roger might consider doing a lecture at an event or two in which he would describe the correct ways of doing things (and, ideally, what happens if you dont do them)? Anyone feeling unjustly criticised could sit in and confirm that theyre not the target of complaint; novices like myself could learn a lot, and we can all decide exactly what Rogers criteria for non-shoddy construction would be. Someone might be able to show him some improvements on his own technique, from which we can all learn. At the moment, the ire at his comments are because nobody knows whether theyre being criticised, and if so, what for.
In the meantime, well have to accept that perhaps those novices less thick-skinned than myself could do with a buffer zone until theyre up to a quality level where Roger can stand to comment on them without disdain!
I hasten to add that Id hope Roger can learn something from poking around inside peoples machines, too. The evolution in our sport is very rapid, and anyone out of the scene is going to need to keep interested to be aware of current standards. This became painfully clear when, in sounding out colleagues at work, I found a season 2 entrant who persisted in trying to tell me that the trick is PCM motor control. An innovative feature five years ago has been obligatory for so long that it never even occurred to me that anyone would have entered a robot with on/off motors. WBC wont be obsolete for a while, but if we want to see it competitive again we need to encourage Roger to stay involved (along with everyone else on this forum, I should add). Im a great fan of many robots which arent very active on the charity circuit, so lets keep everyone as happy as we can.
My god, but I ramble. Ahem.
--
Fluppet
My next robot will have an indicator which will show if the receiver is in failsafe (orange light), receiving all channels in zero position (green light), or has one of the channels active (red light). This way I can check if it is safe to put the main link in, without having to worry that the robot will go crazy when I put the link in. (As happend to me during the IRR2003).
I dont see what the problem is with a power light. Of course it can break, and it is only an indication. But pulling out the removable link is also not a guarantee that the robot is totally dead. Removable links may have been wired incorrectly, or wires may have been shorted due to battle damage. Is that a reason to stop using removable links ??
Niels
Hammerhead
We can not stop using removable links in one form or another i cant think of another sure way of killing main power.
LED - think indicator not safety device
Link - think safety device
You know what... Im with Mario on this one. Im ditching my robot for basket weaving!
I was thinking of a nice apple basket using a contrasting kevlar and carbon fibre weave :) One question though, are the apples classed as a consumable or do I have to include them in my weight limit? Oh... and are red apples allowed or is it only green because I was thinking of using a mixture of the two.
Long live competative basket weaving!
And yes sarcasm is the lowest form of wit - but I like it :)
LOL - well said Dan. I cant believe this thread is still rageing on.
Give it up every one - fit the light if you think its a daft idea or not. If as much effort was put into helping eachother and working together as has gone into the rowing on this thread then im sure we would all be better off!
Now where did you say those basket weaving lessons were Dan?
To the people who say I made mistakes when building WBC, you are right, I did make one big mistake.
I did not calculate the number of people who would annoy me by telling me I built it incorrectly.
I have learnt much from that, a lot of it from a just few of the FRA members.
I have been reminded just how annoying nit pickers can be.
The most annoying are those who do not check their facts before telling me I did something wrong.
Such as telling me and the world that I can€™t weld grade 5 tititanium, when I was not actually using grade 5 titanium.
If you get your facts wrong when telling someone off, the telling off rebounds on you and you are regarded with suspicion and probably disliked.
Had I built WBC perfectly, without any errors at all, I would still be looking for the perfect pencil to start the first sketch with, and no one would have heard of it.
But I did build it, using the best materials and techniques available at the time, and millions of people remember it, warts and all.
We should remember that robots for RW were supposed to be built on the cheap, from surplus materials by amateurs.
Most are still built that way and to the best ability of those amateurs.
We know they dont have college degrees in robot building techniques, and never will have.
Some of them will, by safety standards, do a poor job, but it is the best they can do.
Technical inspections can only be so thorough and may miss, for example, bad joints in wiring and other well hidden faults.
Those of us responsible for event safety must take that into account when robots are let loose in the arena and use our lifes experience to make sure that nobody gets hurt.
Your experience will not the same as the guy in charge at the time.
If you question his methods be VERY sure you do know what you are talking about or you will be the one in the wrong.
I have now made another mistake; I have posted on this forum again.
Some will no doubt find reason in this post to say things to annoy me again and no doubt what I have said here will annoy some of you.
It was not my intention to annoy anybody deliberately and you should take that into account before you do get annoyed.
Roger and everyone.
It seems a lot of people have gone on the defensive when their skills, safety awareness, whatever have been questioned. The thread does seem to have turned into a bit of a sniping match and thats counterproductive as weve gone off topis as to whether the LED is a good idea or not.
I for one think WBC is and was a fantastic robot and I wish Id had 8 grand (or whatever) to spare when it went up for sale. I can fully understand your feelings when you come under criticism from what you must regard as relative amateurs - Id certainly welcome some design and build assistance from someone with your record.
A lot of the other bot builders contributing to this also have extremely well built robots and have spent a lot of time on them (for example Mute) and a lot of them also have bucketloads of experience in their fields (e.g. Mario) and I can understand them not taking kindly to being criticised.
Can we now all just accept that the LED is mandatory, should not be taken as a this robot is safe indicator, but can be used as a power on confirmation or a first-glance indicator of status. Were all agreed that links have to stay, and whether theyre behind a standard panel or not, they must be easy to remove without tools in a safe manner. On the basic points were basically all on the same side. Is it really worth a 12 page thread made up largely of attack, defend, counterattack, defend, lets get back on topic, ok... Attack, defend, etc etc just to debate whether an LED should be added or not?
Lets just add them, and those that wish to ignore them can do so. At the end of the day if they get made non-mandatory its not like well be forced to remove them.
-- Kev
2 things,
first to Roger...
I agree with everything you said, except one thing. Would you believe there are actually universities that are running robot wars degrees now? how mad is that? I think (from memory) Wrawick univercity was mentioned recently as having one of these courses. Maybe you should e-mail your local uni Roger and see if they would be interested in your rather deep pool of experience for them to draw on if they have similar plans.
2nd,
I questioned the point of an LED indicator when it was first brought up. I thought about it getting damaged, and people assuming that because it was not lit it was safe etc... people using it as a reason to disconnect their brains. As long as this is never allowed to happen, I see no reason now no to have them, we are not replacing anything with these, just adding them to give us another layer of protection. I wouldnt champion the cause, but Ill agree and vote for it if I was given the choice.
Just my little contribution, without the attacks or defends.
James, several places do courses in robotics; Im not sure Im aware of doing a course in *combat* robotics, which is a subtly different thing. From their comments and judging abilities, as seen from a TV spectators perspective, its not clear to me that the eminent academics on the RW judging panel know anything like as much as the competitors do (about combat robots - Im sure their expertise in the flocking behaviour of helium balloons is unparalleled). Of course, they may just not be putting their knowledge across very well. Er, this isnt supposed to be another attack - its not clear who else the judges could be - just an attempt to point out that even pertinent academic expertise probably wont go far. If anywhere *does* do a course in combat robotics, let me know!
Im sure a visit from any roboteer would be popular in a university. Especially if it was open to non-students of the university in question (Id go if Roger - or Arfur, or Rex, or... - gave a talk in London, for example). But Id travel a lot further to a talk at a robot combat event, aimed at people who know the basics and the obvious; pity team Plunderbird ran out of time when they started a technical talk at Debenham 2002. Long may all the experts keep posting to the forum.
Sorry, off-topic again. Ill go and buy some LEDs. :-)
--
Fluppet
yep, seriously, combat robot beng.
mad world
Yes, Warwick college run a 2 year course specifically designated to robot wars.
It has been running for 3 years now I believe, in the past have built feather weights, however we are running an event for them, where over the last two years they have been designing and building their first heavy weight, and upon completion will test it in the RR arena against the €œ professionals €œ :)
Jonno
http://www.roamingrobots.co.ukwww.roamingrobots.co.uk
Yum, tasty humble pie.
Oh well, if you can get a course in computer game testing, I guess I shouldnt be surprised. Who on earth decided to fund it? Even as a fan of the sport, Im not quite sure what it adds to the education of the individual or the advancement of knowledge (at least, a degrees worth - Im sure you could get a run of lectures out of it).
Id be interested to know who teaches it, and how much combat experience there is out there to pass on. I look forward to meeting some graduates!
Sorry, Ive dragged us way off topic, although perhaps everyones had their say on LEDs by now.
--
Fluppet
And by this time im sorry i asked.
I dont know about you folks, but I love it when someone looks at something Ive made and says Youve made a mistake there...
It instinctivly makes me think Wooooohooooo! Just the one!
If Warwick is anything like the university I went to (wont say which as I dont want to get sued, and yes, these petty minded backstabbers probably would if they saw this.... not bitter) the course is a mechanical engineering course that some bright spark has called robot wars becuase they have related it to building a robot. If they are anything like NEW.... (oops, almost put an I at the end of that and told you which uni,) they have no experience in the robot building, no specialist knowledge, and no previous building to rely on. centre of excellence eh?
I really hope Warwick is different, because the thought of having universities producing graduates that have a degree in whatever when not one person in the uni has the slightest idea what they are doing is really something that grates on me.
For example, the cr4p place I went had a motorsports degree, and it turned out that the only person within 1/2 mile of the uni with any motorsport experience whatsoever, was me. Not good.
Anyhoo, if Warwick has any foundation in robots, I applaude their efforts to bring it to the students, and I look forward to seeing their robots.
Cheers
James
I have the same problem james :sad: im doing a course, animatronics, that is at least 70% pratical. yet i seem to spend all of my week learning how to programme computers.
Colleges do tend to allow more pratical based courses then unis.
BTW im at bradford uni, i dont care if i drag their name through the mud!
Im currently taking my uni to court so I have to be careful (oh yeah look, nobody would guess who Im refering to)
It just upsets me, mainly because I had some very good friends in uni who had come all the way from Baharain, and this was their one shot at getting a british degree. They were told this degree would mean they would know enough about motorsport to make a career running race teams, and they have gone back to Baharain with no idea how to cornerweight a car, let alone run a team.
Im not saying all unis do this, but its a subject I am very disturbed by, as we will have a nation of people with degree in things they know nothing about.
I knew a guy on the mechnical engineering course that told me he didnt know what an M6 thread was, after 4 years doing a degree in mechanical engineering. sad really
I agree completely, the degree im studying for now (mechanical engineering) is almost totally theorhetical. Because of health and safety we are not allowed to go near a welder or any other equiptment that a future employer will assume we know how to use. Over 50% of the graduates from my course will come out knowing how to design the best turbofan or compressor on the planet but not a clue how to put it together. These people will be out in the real world building bridges and cars when I wouldnt trust them to open a can of beans that was already open, i expect a few major catastrophies in about 5 - 10 years.
Joseph Townsend
What you guys have been writing the past days has only reinforced my opinion (or rather prejudice) about people with university degrees: I never trust one to do something practical. Being a university graduate myself (been collecting a few degrees) has only made it worse and makes no difference. But, a big BUT... when one takes the trouble to learn things by hands-on practice then he/she will do a great job. I learned the hard way and I know a lot of people who didnt (I am talking about my fellow students here, and students I knew when still on the university, not targeting anyone on this forum) thus making them frightfully stupid when it comes to handywork.
My favorite writer is Terry Pratchett and in his Discworld-novel Reaper Man he wrote the following gem that perfectly describes my sentiments:
(The Dean and the Senior Wrangler of Unseen University talking shop.)
What is this thing, anyway?
Its called a shovel. Ive seen the gardeners use them. You stick the sharp end in the ground. Then it gets a bit technical.
Sorry if I insulted anyones feelings but it is just the way I see some people. You see, at university I was taught that no matter what we studied we were the top of society and the superiors of all mankind anyway and this simply by having been at university. But after graduating and having done several jobs I realised that there is only one human group thats really superior and that is the mechanics. They make our society work and I mean that literally.
Uhmm... we are way off topic now arent we ?
Far off topic. Let me try to loop the thread of conversation back the way it came from.
This hands-on experience is the reason Id love someone to do a practical talk for interested parties at a roboteering event. The number of people not already too experienced (at least in their own opinions :-) ), but still interested might be small - it would bore most kiddies witless - but I doubt Im the only person hovering on the threshold of starting to build.
I own and have read several books on building combat robots, but Id learn a lot by having someone do a Q&A session, and actually allow me to look at the innards of existing robots close up - ask questions. I could start building and learn from my mistakes, but - call me lazy - Id rather learn from everyone elses mistakes. Another current thread is discussing how newbies havent picked up state-of-the-art technology (wheelchair motors, etc.) - if anyone has time to share to go over things for those not already in the pits, I, for one, would be very grateful. All the roboteers of whom Ive asked questions have been very helpful in the past, but Im sure it would avoid *some* of the questions coming up quite so often if someone arranged a master class.
And then I might be able to wire up an LED decently. :-)
--
Fluppet
James, no, theres some very good unis out there, however, I can confirm the University of Lincoln aka University of Lincolnshire and Humberside is just as bad as yours and Alans. Also beware their franchise courses at various universitys and colleges around the country.
Ive just come back from an open day at the University of Reading. I hope to go there in September to study Cybernetics. From what I have seen today the course is brilliant. They have a whole building & department for Cybernetics, (unlike other Unis Ive looked at which only include cybernetics or robotics as a module within an AI, computer science or engineering course) and for the 3rd year project you can make pretty much anything you like, and make use of all the engineering workshops and CNC machines if you want to.
Dominic
http://www.ukrobotics.comhttp://www.ukrobotics.com
Reading is THE place for Cybernetics, especially with Dr. Kevin Warick running the show there at the moment. If I was more into the computer science side of things I would definatelly try and gain a place there (or MIT, of course :-). You should have a truly great time there Dom :)
Can we hope that in future live events special pit passes-with-guided-tour will be given to people who have indicated an interest in building their own robot ? It is the best way to educate them ! (Maybe some organisers have already done a similar thing, I dont know.)
Babeth: I suspect that, even as someone whod queue for a long time for such a pit pass, Id have to advise against it. Im sure health and safety would be a nightmare, and it would make life a misery for the active roboteers (would *you* leave your robot alone with an enthusiastic member of the public without knowing how much they know about self preservation - let alone damage to the robot?)
If one or two roboteers would be willing to give a talk, do some Qs&As, and let people get up close enough to their robot to peer at the details - in return for being plied with beer and food, for example - I suspect it would be less hassle. The pits during intermissions at Debenham were hectic even with the public kept behind a barrier - an accident *would* happen, even with only a few keen people wandering around - and I dont think its fair to be wandering around while someone wants to be making repairs. Besides, theres probably not enough room for people to crowd round and get at the machines properly.
Every roboteer Ive spoken to has been very helpful and friendly - but forcing myself upon *everyone* seems a bit much to ask. Chatting with fellow enthusiasts ought to be an enjoyable experience, but too much hassle will make it tedious, and Id rather roboteers had all the enthusiasm they can muster to put into these events. Doesnt mean it wouldnt be nice to talk to more than those couple of roboteers willing to talk/do a presentation, but I dont want to force people into it.
But perhaps Im being too sensitive on other peoples behalf? (Mind you, Im the one trying to get someone to volunteer to do a semi-formal talk...)
If someone *does* do anything special for the more building-prone enthusiast, though, please make a noise on this forum so I know to make an effort to turn up!
--
Fluppet
there were families walking around the pits at series 7 with one of the crew. Im not sure how they got permission etc but they were there.
Was it the family that came in the stretch limo dont know who it was though
At my Robot Bash at Yeovil (see events thread) we make a point of letting the public see the robots in the pits.
At pre-arranged times, we take a break from fighting, make all the robots safe and invite the public in to see them.
This year we will have a long shop counter arrangement with the de-activated robots on it, the roboteers behind the counter and the public allowed in front of it.
All the roboteers who want to show off their robots and let the fans ask questions can do so.
Those that dont can keep their robots behind the counter where the public have no access.
We will have a Yeovil show website soon so you can find out which robots will be there.
So come along and look into the robots innards and chat to the builders.
WBC, Bigger Brother, and my new robot Cheese Burger will be there, others to be announced when they are confirmed as coming along.
I met two families in the pits in S7, one was a father and son who had attempted to compete,, but failed tech checks, (son upset), and were given tour around etc. The other (limo) I believe was by special arrangement, the boy in question either won a competition or was unwell in some respect - cannot remember. I spent several minutes with both guys quite happily though did have the free time, at the time. I cannot think of any time I wouldnt spare a few minutes, but then a few+a few+a few etc....
Andrews suggestion has its merits and so does Rogers. So if we combine both suggestions maybe we could suggest a counter where robots can be put on display and roboteers can give answers and explanations when they have time to do it and their robots have been made as safe as possible. Something to think about for the event organisers... mind you, it is only a suggestion.
[This is still way off-topic, much of which is my fault; I hope nobody minds too much.]
Roger - the shop counter sounds good, but Im concerned from my experience at past events that the ability of the genuine builders to get anywhere near the machines or roboteers is a bit limited with that kind of arrangement.
I dont for a moment want to put fans off gawping at their favourite machines and getting autographs/robot-funding merchandise off roboteers, but keen children wanting to go whoah, cool and people (Im not ruling youngsters out of this category either) wanting to see how a particular mechanical feature was implemented, for example, are two quite different categories. And they get in each others way.
If the event is quiet/small enough then there wouldnt be a problem, but fighting through a crowd of pre-teens and then feeling guilty about monopolising the roboteers time is awkward. My experience of Debenham (x2), RWX2 and Lakeside is that roboteers dont have much time left on their own to be pestered - but as I attend more events maybe Ill discover Im mistaken. Its especially frustrating when there *are* people whod like to listen to the detailed technical answers of the same kind of question, so the minimum amount of everyones time is wasted, but the youngsters (and parents) hanging around are clearly being bored witless.
I dont want to propose an us and them culture, but the two broad categories of spectators (those whod be as interested if it was WWF - with the same amount of destruction - and those who are interested from an engineering perspective; I know theres cross-over, but you know what I mean) also extend to people hovering around the outside of the pits during intermissions.
I just wondered if trying to handle the two groups separately might be more efficient; a production line, kind of thing. If someone were to give a talk/presentation/poke around robot innards which sounds dull enough to those only there to see destruction (or went on late enough after the event, one evening), only proto-roboteers would attend, and we wouldnt be falling over each other in breaks between fights.
Of course, it does rather rely on someone volunteering to spend a while detailing the wonders of their pride and joy to an admiring and adoring audience, and then have every detail of it nit-picked by the bunch of know-nothings in the Q&A session. :-)
But Ill certainly keep an eye out for Yeovil and try to make my way over there.
--
Fluppet
We have not had a problem in the past with controlling the various groups who wish to view the robots in the pits.
I know that there are widely differing interests to cater for including a few (accompanied) disabled children who attend regularly and want their favourite roboteers signatures.
Protecting these from the (sometimes OTT) teenage fans can be a bit trying.
As with other safety issues, using common sense and experience is the answer.
If necessary we will limit the numbers at any one time at the counter to a manageable group.
Any volunteers for Doormen?, only 6 ft 6 rugby players need apply :)
The alternative idea of organised lectures or talks about robot building is a good one.
These could not be held at the fighting events, we just don€™t have the time.
Ian Watts has been giving such lectures and instruction at various universities and colleges for a while.
I am a qualified instructor/teacher in engineering techniques, but I am inexperienced in the art of teaching.
I may have the engineering and robot building experience that I could share with others but have always been working €œhands on€ rather than teaching or guiding others to do the work.
You may have noticed that my manner when dealing with poorly phrased questions or hecklers is not the best.
It should be possible to develop the idea of €œrobot lectures€ by a few suitable experienced builders.
There are various possibilities for venues for these.
Some of you may be surprised at the true costs for the lecturers involved, when preparation time, travelling and the €œtime out€ from their day job is accounted for.
I am sure something could be worked out if there is sufficient interest.
£400-£700 is a starting point for a 2 hour lecture from a famous person.
not that thats a good or bad thing, I have no opinion as it is not me paying those prices, and its not be being paid those prices.
I have been to many shows now, quite a few with no robot to break. If the FRA wanted to look at having a technical Q&A expert (ie, a roboteer with experience) man the desk (which is something I have suggested before, the FRA must have a prominent stand at events) then roboteers and potential roboteers can talk without the fan factor getting in the way too much.
I have been on a 5 man Razer stand before now, and answered very technical questions from very knowledgeable people, only to be interupted by someone wanting to know could Razer kick Kilalots butt? if the FRA stand is there, it is not something young fans will spend much time near, but more interested parties can visit and benefit from talking to the people manning the desk without too much distraction.
just my log on the woodpile.
Roger - Id been thinking something relatively informal in the evening of one of the two-day events (gather a crowd in a pub, payment in beer...) but obviously that makes a dent in the social activities of the soul in question, doing something they may well not enjoy doing. Youre quite right that a standalone talk from an expert is an expensive thing, and I should probably stop thinking in terms of liquid remuneration, especially if fitting it in around an event isnt going to work. (Ill trust your judgement on that; the only thing Ive tried to run with substantial organisation has been tiddlywinks tournaments, and obviously health and safety takes up a bit less time...) If youre not having such problems with overcrowding at your events, Ill make an extra special effort to visit Yeovil. :-)
However, Id be more than happy to pay a reasonable fee (although probably not £400 on my own...) to attend a decent talk from an expert. I know the basics - I dont want someone to tell me how tank steering works, for example - but something aimed at someone whos near ready to build but wants to avoid doing something stupid (and expensive) first time out would be very welcome. If it happens, count me in!
James - glad (in a misery loves company kind of way) its not just me whos had this kind of experience. Id certainly make a bee-line for a stand where I could actually talk technical with an expert; Ive been lucky in the past that Ive managed to have reasonably long chats with Andrew Marchant, Rex, Mrs Watts (Ian and the kids tend to be busy) and the Plunderbird boys when theyve been separated from their robots (thanks to all of them), but even so Ive still had to negotiate autograph hunters a lot. Someone freer to talk would be most welcome.
That said, part of my problem is seeing how everything fits together - I have books on how to build these things, but actually having a poke at the innards of something would be very helpful. So long as its put together by someone more competent than me I dont much care which robot it is, so this is kind of a call to those with less well-known robots to make themselves visible, if they will, even if the crowds of pre-teens ignore them - in fact, away from the rich and famous would be better! But I can see the argument for an absence of robot too - whats that? called out every thirty seconds might be as distracting.
--
Fluppet
We do run some lectures at Enginuity, mainly aimed at kids though up till this stage at least.
Perhaps if theres enough interest from others we could drop in a couple of sessions for wannabe builders too.
Drop us a line at:
info@robotcrusade.com
if you might be interested in attending something like this, and well see what we can do.
Sam
http://www.robotcrusade.comhttp://www.robotcrusade.com
the main problem, as i see it, is that everyone at one of these lectures would be at different stages with their knowledge.
Some wouldnt know what a bosch 750 is whereas others would just want to know some methods for attaching armour. I think perhaps some kind of system to give an indication of how much knowledge is required to understand the lecture would perhaps be an idea............just a thought
werent there thoughts of running a meal with a roboteer last debenham? members of the public could sit and eat with their favorite roboteers.
The meal idea sounds like a thing I would like to do.
In any case, I do not have the educational background, so I prefer to stay out of the lecturing spotlight.
On the other hand, robotless roboteers can jump in to explain things about the machines to the public; Most of us know each others machines. Of course there are exceptions.
Gary: youre right, theres always going to be a range of levels of experience - although a Q&A session might compensate for too many people being out of sync. Perhaps were looking at several lectures, which of course makes matters much worse for organisation - although starting with the beginners ones and ending with an experts guide might mean that everyone ends up in the last lecture at the same level. I still think you can cover a wide enough range in just one or two talks to be useful to most people - Id accept that Im going to have to sit through some stuff that I know and maybe not understand a few bits, but the subject isnt so complex, once the audience have got past the stage of thinking about building a robot, that people will need much background to handle the more advanced bits of design.
If the roboteers are willing to put up with it, the dinner idea sounds good (and if the public pay for the food it would reduce catering costs). Does make it a bit hard to actually peer at the innards of a robot, but if all the questions are ready in advance there may not be a problem with a post-dinner show-and-tell. It does mean that *everybody* has to put up with the same daft questions, which would be why I thought someone sitting in front of a crowd might be more efficient (although undoubtedly more work for the lecturer). Also a benefit of a talk is that you get to hear someone ask the question you would have asked if youd thought of it, whereas one-on-one people are guaranteed to go away thinking I wish Id thought to say... And as Mario says, it might be easier for a roboteer to jump in and say and I found this completely different solution to a similar problem (or you dont want to do it like that...) in a lecture - if its informal - whereas theyll never know its been discussed in a one-on-one.
It also means that experts in different designs can also give some input, whereas someone set on building a crusher is necessarily going to lose out on some inside knowledge if they end up dining to a spinner driver, for example. I may know roughly how most of the robots work from an indirect viewpoint, but there are questions I wouldnt ask if I wasnt thinking of building a similar design.
When I made the original suggestion I was only really thinking of someone (or even several roboteers) in a post-event pub agreeing to have the serious looking members of the public (which, if you drop the families toddlers only out to see the destruction, I suspect wouldnt be such an enormous number) ply them with food and drink while doing a quick these are the things Ive learnt while building my robot talk - then taking questions. Not really the same as filling a lecture theatre, although since I also hate public speaking I appreciate that its still not going to be the cup of tea of some people.
Im sure Ill pick up a great deal at FRA regional social meets (when theres one which doesnt clash with a tiddlywinks tournament), but I suspect there are enough people out there at my stage of development that it would be possible to push everyone up to a better level of understanding in one go, and stop me having to ask some of the more basic questions.
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Fluppet