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Remember the tz85s have a braking function which is quite violent. It will be harsher on the motor.
Have you tried fiddling with the electronize's PWM dial? You can set it to have relatively poor control but good torque (fewer, but bigger pulses) or to have finer control but less grunt. Night help a bit regardless of motor setup.
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Aside from that, is the 7:1 reduction the total reduction? If so, that sounds like very little to me, low revving motor or not. Tormenta 2 uses a motor of comparable grunt (albeit faster, but the point stands) for the weapon, that is overvolted and at around 100:1 - something like 100rpm on the weapon shaft - and it's plenty fast enough to throw itself and other machines. For an elec axe of this sort of scale I wouldn't try to gear for faster than 200rpm, it's not really needed and power is wasted in making theoretically faster swinging axes actually run slower because of strain.
Jamie's Onyx was originally powered by a drill motor with a 5:1 chain reduction to the axe. Under load that's probably only a tad faster than 100rpm. But it didn't lack power or look slow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOSJBug1Y7I
Same goes with another roboteer's similar setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn4wnMjGVuw
Neither of these setups were particularly reliable because drill gearboxes can't handle the loads, but the idea is that both of these are geared way way way slower than most elec axes (and both use relatively puny motors) yet don't lack apparent power.
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I don't know what can be done for your setup in time for the champs, but I'm pretty sure you just need a lot more reduction. A 3kg axe is a hefty thing to get swinging regardless of motor. My only thought is an additional stage built from scratch as you mentioned above, or there may be merit in mating the motor you have to a large drill gearbox from a name brand. You can get such things for next to nothing from all over the place. People just throw them out in bulk as the batteries die, or as they upgrade to the new lithium based drills.
Hope you can resolve it, either way.
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its not the esc, the motors are the problem probably do require a first stage reduction, plan b tried my cim motors from my half built feather better but not great so best idea use the old mfa motors again, never broken or ever caused a problem upto know, but I will run them on 22.2v instead of the old 12v battery system, new brackets etc in design hopefully next test on video by next weekend
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John from Terrorhurtz team has written a reply to a thread somewhere about how to gear motors in an axe so that it makes the most of the motor's power band and stuff.
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Mfa motors fitted and quick test this morning, the axe is much quicker then before, robot drives and the weapon works only some body armour Battery mount left to do, then a full strip down and rebuild with thread lock etc, hopefully video by the end of Sunday. Toying with idea of a front skirt to help stop flippers getting under
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Looking great! Those holes are pretty impressive, I'll have to steer clear with just a 5mm hdpe top panel!
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Looking good! Looking at the video, the front of your robot is lifting up a huge amount when firing before you even hit your opponent. This will be taking away a massive amount of power from the end of your weapon. If you have weight, I would suggest putting abit of a wheely bar on the back long enough to get that ump to a minimum.
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Good idea also looking at a wedge to get under opponents, have aroung 300gram left so not alot, cant wait for gsl had such a blast last year
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Nice one Adam, definitely going to be a tougher prospect this year. Would love to get drawn against it again :)
Is there a particular reason that the rear axe stop is quite high? I.e. if the axe swung back further, would it start hitting internal components? Seems if you reduced it to just above the top of the HDPE armour, you'd get a little more travel resulting in slightly more energy in the swing? Wouldn't be a huge amount I guess but every little helps.
Glad to see the TZ85s are working too.
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Good call Jamie, originally the idea was to reduce the start load on the motors more mechanical advantage, will have a look and maybe some tests. Would also love to fight drumroll again if not grudge match maybe :)
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Well that ruins my plans to armour my robot with Victoria's biscuit tins ;p
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What's it like against 2.5mm stainless steel? No reason... Asking for a friend.
In all seriousness though, that looks pretty impressive! I bet it'll do a fair bit of damage at the champs!
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2 Attachment(s)
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Are you not worried a out the axe shaft bending with all those holes in it?
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Some really lovely little details on there, excellent work :)
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Agreed. Looks so clean and shiny too 8)
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Quick update another bad weekend with ceros this time lasted nearly 2 minutes in its first and only fight of the weekend. But at least that is twice as long as the last fight. flipper working fine but drive seemed very slow. Just worked out the gear ratio and the max speed should be 11.437 mph with no losses but looked a lot less then that as tr2/and mm were almost twice as fast in the arena. not sure if this is down too the huge gearbox and drive losses with the gokart wheels or the the wotty problems we had.
any ideas, thinking of reducing the ratio from 19.4:1 to about 16:1 therefore giving around 14mph
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You put a tacho on the motors to make sure your getting full revs?
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no but worth a shot if I could find a tacho or borrow one
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Deal Extreme stuff. It works for a while.
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any body used these npc motors, might make good single stage perm motor replacements little under powered but might just squeeze in
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/NPC-02446.html
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NPC gear is generally good quality, although that motor looks like a generic Chinese design. For less money & weight, you can get the AmpFlow E30-150 Motor, which has more power and better construction. If you can deal with the extra RPM, it beats the NPC motor hands down. If you want more power, the AmpFlow F30-150 Motor still weighs less than the NPC one.
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agreed but it also has treble the price tag out of my league im afraid
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The E150 is $10 cheaper than the NPC motor with more power output and torque. as long as you can fit a bit higher gear reduction, its has to be better. I'm assuming its to drive the axe?
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I have been looking at the e150 would just fit at a push with the extra gear stage. and it is to replace possibly the drive system on my hw ceros as the perms just don't work well and there is so little space to fit anything else.
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generates the same power as bosch 750
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torque is the problem#
bosch 750 - 11nm
e30 150 - 5nm
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You have to remember the Ampflow rating is peak power output, a Bosch, is 750 watts continuous, peaking at about 1.2kw.
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good call Alan forgot about that
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Do you have weight and the ability for slightly more battery power? Adding in a few more volts could compensate for the slightly less powerful motors
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no more boschs left at elliss components, emailed yesterday to buy 5 for my new heavy and ceros and this is the reply,
Thank you for your email. Unfortunately these Bosch F006 B10 274 motors have now been sold elsewhere. This Bosch motor is now discontinued without replacement.
so all you bosch 750 motor guys need to look after them well and source spares asap if I was you,
just though you all should know this information,
this was a public service announcement by NO TOY ROBOTICS
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wonder who bought all of them!
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Whoever it was wanted lots there were over 50 left when I spoke to them in early june for a quote
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Ampflows it is but they are still out of stock, I have emailed robotmarketplace with no reply yet
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There useless at replying to emails... i ended up messaging jim smintowski (owner of rmp) on facebook to get some feedback on an order that was a month over due.
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You might try buying direct from the distributor: http://www.ampflow.com/ampflow_motors.htm or at least enquire when they expect more stock.
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just sent them a message, robot market place replied with "the motors with gearbox are in stock"
really helpful when I asked for motors and a lead time ?
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The RMP has a confusing inventory system. Any product on their site that says 'available' means they have no stock but they are reasonably sure that they can order it in for you. Eventually. If the item is 'in stock' its ready to ship when you order, so there is no lead time from their point of view. It sounds like they are confused about what you want to order.
