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Thanks Jonno for your reply. :D I would still like to hear from the other EO€™s on the points raised if they would like to comment, but as always I respect their choice not to contribute if they don€™t feel they have anything to say at the moment.
On another note sorry I cant make the Air Show event this year holiday overlaps by one day. Bad planning on my part!!! :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:
Well, im always up for a good debate !!!
Its all gone a bit quiet now, so this thread will soon become a distant history.
We'll have to see if anything changes or happens.
John
I'll just cover our views on a few of the points.
Middleweights: As jonno says, they would soon be on the same scale as the heavys and would require the same size and strength arenas so from that point of view it wouldn't change anything. We are more than happy to fit the middles into our shows so if you can persuade a few to build them im sure there will be somewhere to fight.
I would of guessed the same, if you compare one of our events (lets say Burgess Hill) and the FW UK Champs held last year in Derby by Robochallenge, the costs for the two events would probably work out very similar, you still need a venue, crew, gas, transport, hotels, advertising etc. It doesn't cost that much more to put on a full show for us, just time and effort.Quote:
How much cost difference is there between running something like the featherweight champs with Robots Live's little arena to running a full heavyweight competition?
At the moment we are trying to advertise a format and brand that is well known, to move away from this i think would work against us.Quote:
But I do think there is room to move away from the Robot Wars formula to something better, or a better match for the circumstances we now face.
I think were currently doing well regarding date clashes. There are reasons why there are few events during the summer, and why certain areas seem more popular. Its also seems roboteers are less likely to travel larger distances especially if its only a one day event.Quote:
One area were EO€™s could work together is, to arrange the calendar so that there is an even number of events through out the year, and spread as evenly as possible geographically, the south west dose not get much what about Bristol? Also Scotland.
This was mentioned, but due to the nature in which this years UK champs was decieded upon, it didn€™t really leave enough time to create and test a system that would work and be fair. If this sort of UK champs happens next year then I€™m sure it can be looked into.Quote:
I think we all would like to see the championships spread between the EO€™s so it is not anyone€™s burden. And people can feel freer to go to them.
1. All EO€™s have a fair amount a experience in dealing with venues, and getting more than one involved might actually hinder negotiations.Quote:
1/ Venue hire negotiations.
2/ Equipment hire arrangements.
3/ Crowd control and general safety issues.
4/ Marketing and promotion techniques.
5/ Arena design and stage effects information.
6/ All the other bits I missed.
2. Most EO€™s use there own equipment, we only rent the vehicles and a couple of sets of ladders, all of the arena, sound, lighting, FX etc are owned by us or relevant members of crew. I€™m sure if another EO wanted to rent something off another I wouldn€™t see it being a problem.
3. I think this is covered by the FRA and any issues are bought up at meetings.
4. I think we all know what each other do; a lot of it has already been mentioned on this thread.
5. All of the arena owners all have the relevant skills and knowledge in the design and maintenance of the arenas.
I thinks that€™s about it all covered, keep the ideas coming!
hi everyone, well blimey ive been busy for a while and just wondered whats been going on and found this thread, which has taken over 2 hours to read !
seriously hope audiences return and would be gutted for the sport to stop, i would help in any way possible for close events, i live between norwich and kings lynn so its 4 years since an event near me. i allready promote the sport as much as i can and have many times considered to put a robot website address on my workvan to help advertising.
i am wondering with tv companies now cutting costs could we be in with a chance of being back on tv ?. i dont want or agree with prize money i just love the sport. over the last 5 years ive met a lot of very freindly people in the roboteering community and we must all work to stay together, im sure we can.
there has been some awesome suggestions but i dont think anyone has suggested this, could we put old robots in the arena that can be smashed up alot to entertain the croud ?
so they are not realy in the fights and with polycarb or similar panels that fall of easy so it looks like they are really damaged ? i have an old one that still looks ok.
its also good that bookings etc are coming in for 2010 and i am confident that we will
be here for years to come.
Terry.
Thanks Alan for your comments on the points that have been raised, I have found all of them very helpful in understanding how the EO€™s are feeling at this time and their thoughts on the future of the movement. :idea:
Jonnos comment is quite profound.
It reminds me of the Quote
€ÂAfter all is said and done, there is usually lots to be done!€ :shock: :shock:
With regards to an advantage in the middleweight class, I think its more of a roboteer thing. They are smaller, lighter and easier to transport. For someone like me who doesn't drive, a middleweight could be stowed away and transported on the train for example, which a heavy cannot (well, it can, me and Marco did it once, but it wasn't very much fun!).
Also, because its a new start weight class, the thing isn't just dominated by pnuematic flippers like the heavies are. Sure, it'll probably get to a point where it is, if people start to build more of them, but currently it has scope for a bit more variety.
With regards to EO's working together....maybe I'm being a bit thick, or missing the point entirely, but if all four EO's pooled funds to put on one event, wouldn't that reduce the risk and effort involved for all parties?
stick to heavies - 10 times better
doubt u would take a middle on a train with u lol 50kg plus tools hmm
also beast could easily get into as a middle so we have 1 built, its like just under 90 now n if we take sides off n that were under 50 but then there will be problems as us flipping 50kg wont be good for the arena
If you flipping a middleweight wont be good for the arena then a middleweight flipping a middleweight wont be good for the arena cos u could easily get the same power out of a middleweight flipper as a heavyweight flipper. But I think middleweights are a good alternative. Would be nice to see a wide range of different styled robots and weapons. Then theres not a load of rear hinged flipper vs rear hinged flipper fights. Its a good oppertunity for everyone to have a unique robot. if everyone set out to make a robot different to everyone elses it would make it very interesting.
well the arena can with stand it but its not very safe as we found out last year or whenever it was with tanto n dtk
I know not this concept of tools. lolQuote:
doubt u would take a middle on a train with u lol 50kg plus tools hmm
Maxus and Voodoo are kinda heavy but you can carry them with 1 arm. A toolbox in the other hand with your transmitter and charger in the toolbox. Sorted.
my middles are a bit dusty atm and voodoo needs a new axe motor gearbox. But then there ready to fight
On the subject of middle weights....
Nobody has gievn me personally a reason as to why build one?
Are they cheaper?
Will they use different components to heavyweights?
Can you take them on a train like is being suggested...? i wouldnt want to with spares and tools.
Will they look completely different to a hW or just slightly smaller?
What weapons will people come up with, or will it be yet another flipper fest?
Remember if you make them with cheaper wheel chair motors, they will be slow and boring.
The entertainment factor of the HWs is the speed, power, and size from an EO point of view.
All I can see is another lower class of the HW's, so why not just concentrate on one class, and make more HW's instead.
Theres nothing to stop MWs in Heavyweight fights ( within reason )... steel sandwich is a prime example.
If i was going to build a MW, id put exactly the same bits out of my hw, and fit it into a MW, just loose my hardox armour. And i'm sure most would do the same !
If im missing something, please tell me. Im open to suggestions.
John
They are easier to handle (lift) for 1 or 2 person-teams. Some Roboteers sell their HW due to bad backs.
On all other points, I agree with Jonno.
I do think that it is not hard to build an underweight HW, these days. With lighter batteries and a tendency to build denser robots.
If you want more spectators, build more spectacular robots; faster (minimum speed?), with active weapons and sacrificial armour. Minimum ground clearance for the bodywork eliminates being stuck on the arena floor. Minimum ground clearance for the flippers will give others a bit more chance.
Good-looking robots are great, but noisy robots pull in people from the other side of the hall.
I don't really agree with that stuff about sacrifical armour/robots or minimum ground clearances ect. We have to remember that this is also a competition for us and I don't think any of us want to have to comprimise our robots just to bring the crowd in. If we're having a couple of fights a show where we have a heavy fighting a sacrificial one, or a showcase fight, this would be one slot gone where the actual heavys can't do any fighting. Each heavy gets about 2 or 3 fights a show if they're lucky. We have to balance between roboteers and audience, and saying people have to build more exciting robots or they cant enter would effect some of us more than others.
:uhoh: There is a lot on the thread since last I looked
To answer some questions asked
MW robots are going to be cheaper to make, and posibly transport this means there may be more people going over to this class from the featherweight side.
A speedo like the Sidewinder would do well in this class. Wheelchair drives come more into play they can go at 8mph plus fit bigger wheels they go faster than that.
The size of a middleweight relative to a heavyweight is about 75-80%.
To restrict flippers winning everything, easy restrict the amount of gas they can carry, big cannon flipper can only have a few shots, little ram can have more shots but no OOTA.
I do like the idea of a minimum height and robots not dragging flipper bits along the ground ripping up Jonno€™s new floor, not that it effects The Saint!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I personally would not recommend transporting a 50Kg robot on a train, but I have done madder things than that in the past!!!
And lastly I don€™t think middleweight robots will be anymore boaring than any other class. :idea: :idea:
mw's wont be any more boring than hw's and will they be anymore exciting?????? i doubt it for a while, hw's are great but all i ever seem to see on youtube is flippers (yawn). (flippers are great but their are too many)
i think you would end up with more mw's than hw's, which could lead to sum great robots being built and possibley evolve like the fw's, the main reason most would probably build one is they are easier to transport. When i took my hw to one event i had to take it through a door sideways!! its scratched the crap out of my car, and wasnt vary easy to secure in the car,
it was a nightmare..
Even though their is no easy answer, i think the biggest problem is its not full combat which is also not do-able with mw's but at least their would be more robots.
People might moan about spinners detroying their robots or causing too much damage, but im sure with all your hardox you would be fine, and yes i know the cost of a full conbat hw arena isnt doable, im just saying what i think the problem is, before anyone starts kicking off.
Hw's are what people will always want to see because of their size, but to me its like boxing
what would you rather watch danny williams,audley harrison cuddling then throwing one big punch and its all over.
.
or would you rather watch amir khan, ricky hatton? :lol:
totally agree a revamp of the rules is needed on robots, lifting a hw robot into the arena for it to get flipped out after 20 seconds would annoy the crap out of me, and also it would if i was a audiance member waiting for the robots to be brought in, armed, etc.... then to see it just get thrown out...
i also think a mw is an easier step up from fw's.
I think that Jonno's cages have addressed this problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by ady
Yep, still going on !!!
MW robots are going to be cheaper to make, and posibly transport this means there may be more people going over to this class from the featherweight side.
Why ? What parts will people use for a MW?
They will be the same to transport, 1 car, 1 set of tools and spares, 1 tank of fuel, and 1 set of passengers. Maybe you have a bit of room in your boot for a lunch box and some crisps :lol:
A speedo like the Sidewinder would do well in this class. Wheelchair drives come more into play they can go at 8mph plus fit bigger wheels they go faster than that.
Yes you can use wheelchair motors, but after a few fights of fighting a robot with 750's your going to want to upgrade, plus i would hazzard a guess that any current hw team building a MW wouldnt consider using wheelchair motors, and id never advise anyone. Its a false economy,
The size of a middleweight relative to a heavyweight is about 75-80%.
Ok so they look very similar to HW's, so your not creating anything visually different to the 40 active HWs.
To restrict flippers winning everything, easy restrict the amount of gas they can carry, big cannon flipper can only have a few shots, little ram can have more shots but no OOTA.
I do like the idea of a minimum height and robots not dragging flipper bits along the ground ripping up Jonno€™s new floor, not that it effects The Saint!!
Talked about minimum ground clearance beofre, i like the idea like in F1 and am still contemplating it for 2010.
I personally would not recommend transporting a 50Kg robot on a train, but I have done madder things than that in the past!!!
And lastly I don€™t think middleweight robots will be anymore boaring than any other class.
They will be very similar to Hw's, some might not even know the difference, so again, why bother?
Top
ady Post subject: Re: The future of robotingPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:57 pm
Name: adrian sandercock mw's wont be any more boring than hw's and will they be anymore exciting?????? i doubt it for a while, hw's are great but all i ever seem to see on youtube is flippers (yawn). (flippers are great but their are too many)
i think you would end up with more mw's than hw's, which could lead to sum great robots being built and possibley evolve like the fw's, the main reason most would probably build one is they are easier to transport.
I dont think apart form the spinners, there is any more technology in FWs than heavyweights. If everyone was to build a MW, we'd end up with the same set of robots but slightly smaller, and maybe a lack of hardox, nothing new.
When i took my hw to one event i had to take it through a door sideways!! its scratched the crap out of my car, and wasnt vary easy to secure in the car,
it was a nightmare..
MOST venues have big open doors, we get an arena through them, with careful planning and rubber and carpet you can get robots in and out without scrathching. Depends on the size of your car of course.
AK gets kan openener in his sparkly posh BMW without scratching it.
Even though their is no easy answer, i think the biggest problem is its not full combat which is also not do-able with mw's but at least their would be more robots.
People might moan about spinners detroying their robots or causing too much damage, but im sure with all your hardox you would be fine, and yes i know the cost of a full conbat hw arena isnt doable, im just saying what i think the problem is, before anyone starts kicking off.
Hw's are what people will always want to see because of their size, but to me its like boxing
what would you rather watch danny williams,audley harrison cuddling then throwing one big punch and its all over.
.
or would you rather watch amir khan, ricky hatton?
totally agree a revamp of the rules is needed on robots, lifting a hw robot into the arena for it to get flipped out after 20 seconds would annoy the crap out of me, and also it would if i was a audiance member waiting for the robots to be brought in, armed, etc.... then to see it just get thrown out...
Obviously your not a HW fan ady, but if you came to an RR HW event, out of 3 shows, we will now only have about 1 or 2 OOTAs, the cages have stoped that and we have some very exciting fights which do last the whole 3 minutes or their is a knock out.
My Thoughts
John
I think that Jonno's cages have addressed this problem.
sorry didnt realise this as i dont go to rr hw events. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and i can take critisim, The only thing i find a bit annoying is anyone who tries to make a suggestion gets a bit talked down too. or that's how it comes across?? as if im thick because i scratched the crap out of my car with my hw and the next man didnt ....
people will build mw robots with wheelchair motors, we cant all afford flash custom gearboxes etc..... people make fw's out of drills, when their are gold motors etc.....we all dont want to just buy/afford all the best stuff so it aint false economy!!
im just trying to get my ideas and suggestions across, this is probably why so many dont add any comments to this thread, other eo's etc...... theirs nothing wrong with people disagreeing with your comments, thats fine, i just think sometimes it comes across a bit sarcastic and if were thick or have crap ideas, in the way responses have been made to suggestions.
all i can say is their is definately something wrong as this thread wouldnt have started and had so much input, and with smaller numbers, i wouldnt blame it all on the recession!
Obviously your not a HW fan ady, but if you came to an RR HW event, out of 3 shows, we will now only have about 1 or 2 OOTAs, the cages have stoped that and we have some very exciting fights which do last the whole 3 minutes or their is a knock out
ummm yeah jonno i am a hw fan, i have been watching fighting robots as long as you im sure,perhaps it just takes a bit more to entertain me,
the only reason i dont go to hw events is because my hw isnt finished, and i dont think its worth the travel/cost of tickets to attend to just watch. i find it entertaining if your in a competition just not soley to watch
i dont come to many events as im only interested mostly in full combat. hence i will always be at a robochallenge event when possible, i love to watch hw's, just only variety.
out of interest out of 40 active heavyweights i see you get about 1/2 attending to any of your events, except the one where you had 9, are these the same hw's most of the time? is their anything that can be done to get the other hw's out? or what can be done for people to build more hw's?
i will join the others i think, and just sit and read (think how many havent commented!) and why is that do you think?
Enough now
this is why people arent replying because people's responses are being considered with malice
some people on here lack mutual respect that we all deserve, we all put time and money into these machines Feathers middles heavies antweights, there all the same, sometimes fights are boring sometimes fights are amazing its just the way of the world
debating what is going to make it more exciting is a little pointless, 5 years ago any of todays robots would of been exciting, I think its not about what weight you wanna run or build its about what u build, if u build a rambot with 2 5mph wheelchairmotors then its going to be dull, build a rambot with 8 wheels and 8 motors and its going to be as dull its down to the fight,
when is someone going to build a proper walker that will get peoples attention
As a relative new comer...we're in our 3rd year and someone who doesn€™t post too many times (I leave that to Will !) I have to make some comments.
1. This thread was to try and create some ideas to support or promote our 'sport'....I applaud Craigs initiative. Thanks to the honest and open comments from the EOs they have some concerns of which we as a community should try and help with ...we owe them that much at least.
2. For 2 years I said we will never have a heavy.....but I gave in. Audiences pay to come and see 'Robot wars', we have to give them what they pay for...without that and good value for money they wont come...so lets not debate on this thread the pros and cons of introducing a new weight class when there is an underlying message from our EOs that to survive we have to find better ways of getting the crowds back in. We've built 6 or 7 feathers now....and that€™s a really great way into the support to generate new blood and continue the sport but when heavies are on the bill...thats all they want to see.
I am pleased we have resurrected St Agro and like Craig we try and make our machines to stand out so that there is something different.....there's still so much you can do to differentiate and give the crowd something to cheer for...but at the end of the day they want big, loud crashes and bangs.
3. Whilst we've been around for 3 years, there has still never been anykind of formal meeting (forget the formal FRA meetings) that happened during events to solicit and feedback and tell the story/status as is (pre show briefings are sometime a luxury !) This is probably because we are all up to our eyes in getting things ready to put on a good show. What€™s good about our community is there are so many people from different backgrounds etc I am sure we could all pitch in with a few ideas...but I am conscious that you have to earn the right to comment let alone criticise the EO's, who for some is their income. So maybe at the next event (RIAT for us and I for one am looking forward to a more relaxing event because events for me are SO STRESSFUL - too many robots me thinks !) Maybe it will be a chance to sit down and see what we can do.
4. There has been some debate about the forum. Some will hate me for saying this but I think there are maybe too many distractions/threads that dont help our cause....for me everytime I check the view active topics there are too many Fan Fic Quizzies post and I am not sure this is serving any purpose for EO's, active real life community etc ( :uhoh: sorry guys) but I recongnise very few as part of the Uk circuit, for me this doesnt add value to the forum. Of course we need a social side but without events we dont have a sport..... Also we seem to easily get off track and introduce new discussions - somewhat lack of discipline...so back to the original thread !!!
5. For events i think we should think more about staged fights...little bit of running around the arena ! etc. ... a bit like the fixed wrestling matches we use to see in the '70s for those old enough to remember. It should be like a boxing match....'introducing all the way from Newcastle, weighing in at 100kgs...etc' set the scene, create the drama (of course you cant do that with 20 feathers every show !)Havent seen too much play acting of recent - but seen plenty of wanting to win ! If I look at my kids 17 + 12 now, there's probably a new generation that didnt see robot wars...they are probably brought along by their dads who did see it...so maybe we could do more to address the new generation who have never seen it. Ideas to consider but without bums on seat not much use.
6. Buzz word at the moment is use of social media (well in my industry it is - I sell ATMs / cashpoints)...viral campains - effectively mass marketing via web,email, twitter, facebook and all the other forms ...all at no cost - Should we be doing more than just use of this forum and the odd post-event videos on You-tube ? No expert but when I see IBM and Deloitte using the like of Youtube you have to ask yourself why - with their mulit million $ marketing budgets do they use this fom. So maybe some mileage there ?
So glad got that off my chest. Longest post I have ever made....It's a great sport we have here, but to continue it sounds like it needs some help (and I mean more than just helping setup and take down the arena - which I am ashamed to say I've done little to assist !)
Have to say that Robots for Will has opened up several doors already and he hasnt left school yet..so lets keep this alive for everyones sake.
Cheers, Ian
woooo steady on.
Im not having a go, and theres no need to start being sarcarstic.
I was merely saying, and ive just reread my post that....
Ok so you went to an event and had to carry it side ways and it scratched your car, it was annoying, and you dont like flippers as they make you yawn, and theres too many, and you dont like the idea of being thrown out of the arena after 20 seconds........ ok, your opinion.... im interested in all of that...but all im saying is..... most events have big doors, and ok we've all scratched our cars becuase of our robots, but carpet rubber and some planning, and they dont have to, and we now have cages to stop 20 second fights... we've moved on from maybe the last time you went to a HW event. Thats all.
From an Eo point of view, ok so people will build a middle weight, they will use wheel chair motors, maybe not even put a weapon on it. It will trundle around the arena. Now as an EO putting on a show would i want this, and do i see this as the future. answer is no. What would your answer be? IM just trying to understand peoples views.
This is about the future and where people see it. We wont all agree.
Im not shooting people down, im not having a go at anyone, all im doing is putting my point accross, the same as you have done.
This is what this forum needs some good debates, people to actually have a say in what they think, or how do i, or robots live or any EO know where to go with our hobby !!
Too many people are sititng probably reading this, but wont get involved....thats their choice, but then these same people may have something to say if they dont like when things are changed.
I fail to see why people dont get involved and take an interest.
I as an EO, was offered a job, a golden opportunity just a few weeks ago, and it would have meant giving robots up. For my sins, and in the current climate i will maybe live to regret it however here i am still posting on here at 11pm at night, and not preparing for a new chapter in my life starting in September. I turned it down.
It was a live changing decision of which is the hardest ive ever made, and up until 5 minutes before the phonecall I was still debating with my heart and head as to what to do.
The reason I am so active in this thread is because this is do or die time for RR, Ive said before, and I'll say it again, in the current climate so many buisiness's are failing, and some of my friends in the entertainment world have gone already. I am lucky I have a network of support that I am still alive, but only just.
So yes things are going to have to change, and believe me there will be changes coming, but what im trying to do is find out what people think, where people see things going, and how we can work together to keep what we love alive !!
John
HAHAHA! Thanks Ian, you just reminded me of going to the Octagon in Bolton and watching 'The American Dream Machine' take on 'the softies' tag team and spin both of them round the arena with their arms and legs and then putting them both head first in a dust bin.
I suppose the fact I can remember that after 30 years is exactly your point.
That said I've given up any sort of arranged fight with you cos your boy doesn't play fair :rofl: :rofl:
Andy
dont ever arrange a staged fight with meggamouse......
He can be in the pit and still get the audience vote !! GRRRRRRR
The conversation at Guildford went:
It's Colins first one on one fight, he hasn't got used to the controls yet so can you at least give him a fight?
Response:
Not a problem
Result:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY7vrIy9 ... annel_page
4 seconds!!!! :rofl:
Andy
jonno you made the right choice bud.....robots rule ! lol
ive just emailed channel5customerservices@five.tv
and asked them if they will be recording a new series of robot wars soon,
i have also sent the link to everyone in my email address book and asked
them to do the same and pass it on to their friends to, i am also on facebook
and will do the same thing there. i dont know if it is worth trying the bbc,
i cant find an e mail link for them.
maybe we can start robot wars sms jokes on mobiles ! that might be a silly idea
I will go to sleep tonight dreaming of robots as usual, and think how we can
let the uk know robot wars is still very much alive.
I go out for the evening and all hell breaks loose!! :uhoh:
Jonno has again made some interesting points in his posts; the one that caught my attention is about interesting fights and interesting robots. All EO€™s trust us to bring along robots that are safe, reliable and entertaining for the public to watch.
I also absolutely agree with the comment made by Craig
€œIf u build a rambot with 2 5mph wheelchair motors then its going to be dull, build a rambot with 8 wheels and 8 motors and its going to be as dull its down to the fight,€Â
The actual fight may be boring.
So what I would say, (if you possibly can) try to make your robot regardless of size as interesting as possible, for the public to watch fight? If it is a rambot put some lights on it, funny ears, fur, anything to make it interesting. We have to balance the competition side with the entertainment of the paying public.
Again all EO€™s trust us to bring along robots that are safe, reliable and entertaining for the public to watch.
Please don€™t take offence at remarks made on this forum, passion for this sport has always been strong, and inventors as a rule never take criticism well. Also if anyone has concerns about posting their points of view I do understand how hard it is, but be brave and help secure the future of the robot scene in this country.
Thanks for everyone€™s comments on this thread I for one appreciate all your input. :D :D
Craig
jonno, i agree with everything you said! dont know how you have put up with everything over the years and i think you should have taken the job! but as u havent i hope the next few events are big and we carry on for a few more years atleast
i dont think people understand that without you we would have packed this in 5 years ago!
stick to heavys, middles r shocking for every reason whats been said in this thread! wheel chair motors? you just wouldnt, thats going back to like series 2 in robot wars, and back in the day when beast thrashed t bone - people will just start moaning again saying the same things about middles n then want to get on to lightweight or whatever it is!
where is andy kane, shame he doesnt get involved anymore but i dont blame him!
Jonno, I think, overall, most of us will be happy to support whatever changes you want to make as long as we have somewhere to fight. I think that would sum up most of our views on this topic.
I don't think we should be critising anyone just for using wheelchair motors though. I'm using them cos theyre pretty much my only option. I'm building my robot my way, I aint arsed about winning fights or anything, I just always wanted to build a heavy and this is the way I can. Everyone else should be able to build it their way, whether they wanna build an ant, feather, middle, heavy, walker, whatever.
An interesting discussion and now that I have some time off from rebuilding a US summer camp I think its time to waid in.
When I first got into roboteering back the robot wars era we went for the middleweights because it was a legitimate weight class with a decent number of competitors and was so for a few years. A great place to gain some experience before we built a heavyweight. Nowadays I don't see much point in directing a new person down the route of a middleweight.
We have two major weight classes both with pretty well established sets of technology and a relative sum of investment depending on how crazy you want to make your machine. Featherweights are a great gateway into the sport and heavyweights are a defined step up. Some people prefer to stay in one limit or another, everyone has their own reasons.
Personally I love the full combat featherweights but I realise the whole event has to be smaller with a smaller arena and smaller crowd because of the size of the machines. Thats a cold hard fact.
I will be returning to heavyweights once I have completed my degree and have a stable cash flow because I love building a large machine and I have several heavyweight suitable components sitting there that are doing nothing.
With regards to the future, I think that a new direction of offering people robotic combat or robotic entertainment instead of robot wars. Robot wars started the ball rolling and now its up to all of us to keep pushing it. Under the topic of robotic combat we could start going down alternate routes, the boxing robots are a great example of this. If we want to offer robotic entertainment then this opens up hundreds of routes of machines. Robogames in the US is the best example I can think of an event that covers near enough every robotic discipline.
Obviously doing this every event won't work but the UK champs could perhaps include other forms of robotics to bring more people along to the event. Then who knows, before long they may be throwing a combat robot in the arena ;)
I hate making suggestions I can have no practical input in, so sorry for this but I like Ian's idea and think it may be something others could do if they have any available time.Quote:
€œBuzz word at the moment is use of social media (well in my industry it is - I sell ATMs / cash points)...viral campaigns - effectively mass marketing via web, email, twitter, face book and all the other forms ...all at no cost - Should we be doing more than just use of this forum and the odd post-event videos on You-tube? No expert but when I see IBM and Deloitte using the like of YouTube you have to ask yourself why - with their multi million $ marketing budgets do they use this form. So maybe some mileage there?€Â
Basically it is a Robot Cyber Shop Window.
Showing a positive image of the movement. We have lots of hits on this forum every day.
To start with perhaps it could be as simple as having a thread starting on this forum that only excepts robot related clips, robot fights, robot tests or funny incidents (team Bud do good ones of them) I think you can put links to utube. This would be a free and positive thing to help raise the positive profile to the public. (Who enter the strange world of the robot forum.) after a time it may develop into a seperate site for the public to get a view of what the shows are like.
Also if so many people watch this space can€™t we sell advertising???
Hi all,
Further to Ian's post about wrestling, why not hype up fights as grudges. If the audience think that the robots/roboteers really have something to fight about, they are more likely to get more involved. If the fight announcer could read out a fictitious back story, this would make the fights seem less like a sport, and more like a matter of life and death.
On the topic of sacrificial armour, I have a robot that is comfortably underweight, and I would be more than happy to velcro on some extra panels that would fall off on impact.
Just some ideas. I am not an EO, so I don't know if these things have already been tried or whether they would work.
I TOO AM LOOKING FORWARD TO RIAT .......
AS I MAY GET A CHANCE TO CHAT AND BE SOCIABLE TOO
( because i dont get chance to at show events too busy :rofl: :rofl: )
and it will be very nice to have a REAL GOOD DRINK with everyone :talker: :talker: :talker: :talker: :talker: :talker: :talker: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :mrgreen:
some interesting points and ideas coming on, jonno i aint having a dig at you personally, perhaps i read your replies wrong (if so im sorry for that) i think the reason it gets so heated is because we all strongly care about the sport however many or few events personally attended, and whether our ideas are not what your looking for or tried its just our ideas, were all trying to help make events more interesting after your previously worrying threads regarding continuing with RR.
my biggest concern about all these ideas are will they last? will it happen for one event and thats all? and how many will help? i worry you will get a certain group doing new things and others doing nothing.
sometimes it can take something as serious as stopping doing events before people will contribute more, sum might think oh they will be ok, they dont need my help!
i can only comment with my views on hw events i attended personally, or what i have seen when at a fw and hw event.
perhaps we could run something at a event where a member of the audiance gets to drive a robot, or more interaction with roboteers? i know were all busy at events inbetween fights sorting our robots or talking to each other, but i think that the crowd get a bit ignored inbetween shows when their wanting autographs, pic of your robot, or to ask some questions, it seems to be our kids doing the autographs lol.
i think robochallenge is good with the demos with razer, talking how it works, showing its power, i think the crowd understand it more when its destroying a microwave or something, rather than seeing 2 robots just fighting covered in hardox, ... cosmetic panels could also be good, as show fights or for the grudge matches, your all well engineered people to make something that would work. i dont know stick a bit of think ali somewhere that wont cause harm and tell tiberious where it is so he can make a hole or something i dont know lol, maybe a cheap wheelchair box robot thats covered in ali, that always gets damaged or something. i could be wrong but i think the audiance want to see phsyical damage, do you see alot of that at hw fights? and yes i understand we all want as little damage as possible. what about a refbot? or a referee like on gladiators? again a pantomime theme..
i think team big bro's chair and water squirting robots are brilliant, really entertaining.
i also really like the idea about making it a bit more entertaining with stories, pantomime and that. Those plunderbird guys and chromalot used to crack me up with their panto stuff, believe that would work very well as with hyping up the fights/grudge matches.
when my daughter went to one event all she kept talking about was the girls dressed in pink with the sweets!! karoline and someone else was it? the chair and water squirting robot, skeletron, its surprising what kids remember with everything else going on.. she remembered more of that than the actual fighting..
what does surprise me is my daugher is 10 and when she does a talk about robots at our school, all the kids are saying whats a fighting robot? whats robotwars? which i find unbelievable how many kids have never heard of it
you may already do alot of this ideas i dont know.... it would be interesting to see how other eo's are finding these hard financial times? can you guys share ideas? what works what doesnt?
i know we go on about robot wars thats now in the past, but i guess we all understand why their was the pantomine theme, talking with roboteers before and after a fight, fixing draws for fights? (dont know if thats true), damage, grudge matches etc.... it was all about the viewings which is what eo's need.
would feedback forms help? see what the audiance liked and didnt, offer a incentive, a prize draw for free tickets or something.
There are some people here who seem to remember RobotWars as a serious combat fighting show. RobotWars was a light entertainment show. Machines were chosen because they looked good on TV or because they would fall apart when the good machines came on. Why did Velocirippa get on series 3,4&5 when Dantomkia and M2 could not? It was because my team-mate was a graphic artist and did a superb paint job, the machine was rubbish.
If we want to attract the kids we need to appeal to the things that give the kids a buzz. Mini Mighty Mouse has gotten the audience vote for fights when the machine has been uncontrollable and I am struggling to drive it, Why? Because it entertained them. The judges never vote for it but the audience do.
Some of the roboteers are taking the robot combat side too seriously, what we would consider as a close evenly matched well driven fight is boring to Joe Public. 10 flippers in the arena at the same time is just plain bedlam, but, the audience love it. If we put a smile on peoples faces, however we do it, they will tell their mates and come back next year.
Serious robot combat has a place - we all want to face the best and be judged on it - but trying to explain to an audience that a machine sits in a corner for 30 seconds because it's opponent is immobilised and it will not continue the fight in case it compromises the machine for the next round, is boring..... and will send people home feeling cheated.
Our machines are dangerous and can only be used in a well built arena, the arena costs money to build, erect, store and transport. The only way to recuperate these costs is to put on a show that will attract an audience, if we do not then we will indeed be left running our machines in car parks, like in the early days. The EO's take a big gamble putting on these shows and have had their fingers burnt financially, but, they are all still there doing it. We as roboteers have a duty to help out the EO's, if they try something different, go with it, it might just entertain Joe Public and put bums on seats.
Trev
Here, here Trevor!
I also like the idea of a more enthusiatic commentry to the events, hyping up the fights and getting the audience to feel more involved.
we need 2 sides of robot combat need taking into account, Entertainment and Competition.
Robot Wars was Entertainment, good robots didnt always qualify it was what looked best on camera, and competition was plotted and barring suprise victories and breakdowns it went like clockwork,
Battlebots was a competition and on TV were the highlights of the competition, towards the end the heavyweights were featured less and less.
Audience figures for both were roughly the same, Robot Wars had a slightly longer run with higher figures but the peaks were proportional to each other and lows were almost identical.
This dilema for EO's for me particularly (and i'm sure is the same for everyone else) is to push for a competition or an entertainment event, its difficult to combine the both but not impossible.
We have an event pencilled in for October (not on one of RR's or RL's weekends promise this time) We're going to run a new style of competition and we're hoping to include middleweights and walkers (even if I had to build them myself)
Its not often that i post here. However, I always read the forum. I have been following this thread for quite a while now with interest. It started out pretty bad then settled down. Lots of good words, lots of good voices and lots of truths. I love and fully agree with Jonnos words. I am VERY glad that he hasnt thrown in the towel.
First, I would like to say a few words about Jonno:-
He had a very bad start as an eo. Anyone who remembers the first Newark event with RR and the pre forum slanging matches will know what I am on about but I am very happy that Jonno came through for us all. Since then he has gone from strength to strength. There are not many eos around. No one puts on as many shows as Jonno. I do not think that even if all the other eos worked their butts off that we would be able to cover the hole that Jonnos leaving would cause. His events are good social calander events. The days of the old events are long gone with the demise of TV coverage. Its just not possible to pull in the crowds so to get the audience figures in that the current eos get is great work.
Long may Jonno reign over us!
Trevor's comments are so spot on that its very hard to pick any holes in his arguement so I wont even bother. Trevor is right about RobotWars being a good ENTERTAINMENT show. Its not a contest, never was and never will be. However, having said that, its not fixed either. BattleBots was a combat sport on TV and if you compare the two shows I would always prefere RobotWars. Its much more fun. I think we all have to admit that. Now, knowing this, Trevors other words about roboteers being too competative is also true. The crowds needs action, they need destruction, loud noises, excitement. Yes, I was very competative and yes, I was also guilty of putting the fight before the show but times have changed. We need to focus on the show not the scoreboard. We can work the score out down the pub afterwards.
Help eos? About time that was mentioned. Its all of our responsibility to ensure that the sport goes on. To that end all eos need help. yes, they do make money. But most shows are at cost or at a loss. RoboDome used to run shows in the height of the RobotWars popularity and yes, we made money. Any one who went to our shows would know that all money went into the arena or to the Roboteers. This is no longer possible. Its commercial suicide. What can we do to help eos? Well, if theres an event planned in your area why not try to publicise it? Someone has already mentioned this ( sorry but I cant scroll up and get your name so I cant give you the credit for this but you know who you are). Turn up very early and help setup the arena and show. Stay longer and help strike it dowm. Every little bit helps. I know that many roboteers already do this and that they are regulars in the helping camp but more needs to be done. Maybe eos should post their ideas of what help they need. tasks devided and shared is a great help.
More school events should be held. More school and village fetes need to be attended. Even if its a static show. Your machines need to be out there and on show to the general public. I dont know how much longer this can go on but it wont be too long before you are all in a farmers field with straw bails as arena walls having fun and remembering the good old days when we had audiences who used to pay to watch you.
Terry Carlin tried to get a new form of contect going. It never took of which is a shame really. He put a lot of good work into that. Maybe someone from the FRA committee can dig it out of the archives and post it. Someone also mentioned that the format needs to change. Make it exciting etc. I dont know what or how but with the brains that we all know are out there in the roboteering world I am sure that some heads can get together and devise a way of generating more interest. terrys idea involved Clans etc. I liked it.
I have run out of words for the moment and my two fingers are aching from all this typing so I will leave it here.
regards.
Mike.
Hello Gang. A quick post while i have the net.
Entertainment for robots and the crowd is very much enjoyable for the roboteers and the crowd but lets remember there has to be a crowd there in the first place. Jonno is working very hard at the mo getting new ways at getting to the public and i think with some hard work and a few new ways we have planned there is new hope.
First for a robot combat event is getting the crowds there.
Second is geting the robots there
Third is the entertainment we do so mabee the crowd will attend the same venue next year.
The crowds will come i am sure. i dont know about other EO's and how they sell tickets but Jonno i know is committed and is working hard for his business and us roboteers.
There are few committed roboteers out there now but i believe there will be a growth in heavys. Maelstrom and its ressurrection is a prime example as is Hydra and their robots. there will be more i am sure. Team Orr are working to get their heavy up and running too. We as a community welcome all new blood and we all are willing to help all newcomers as much as we can. But for teambud we will attend as many events as we can.
Entertainment....Guildford was one of the best shows for entertainment for a while now. Thor/ Envy with MD.....the crowd was loving it. The oota by maelstrom in 4 seconds was quick but on the flipside was impressive for the crowd. And didnt you all hear the MASSIVE chear when Envy ootad Iron Awe. :) Strapping a tv to Thor and THZ chasing it around the arena was also good. We can have competition fights but i think if we played more on doing BOYS and their TOYS stuff it will be good entertainment. The event we did in the middle east took a couple of days to stage up but once we got a format sorted even the most basic of robots can be entertaining.
Teambud will of course take the role of the baddies.
We need a meeting KANE so can you please call a date. If its a problem then we can have a nice chitchat at riat in my bar. Might not be bringing the actual bar by the way as i havent even started building it yet so it might be changed into a wine bar. But the marquee WILL be there. Drunkeness is assured.
I am sure there are people who get offended when a debate is going on but please dont be offended and everything said is constructive and posative. We are a good community and i like our hobby. It gets me away to different citys and the social side of things is always good.
EO's working together..........i had it in my head that mabee the uk champs like this year could be spread between EO's with the points system active at both RL and RR. With both the RR gang HAVING to attend a RL event and the RL gang HAVING to attend a RR event to qualify for points.This also would be a good way of bringing our community together.
The FRA at the moment i will admit is quiet. There are 50 bloody members (too many anyway) on the governing body and only a few actually getting involved in this debate. Personally i am dissapointed and it just shows me that some just dont have the best interest for the sport. If there isnt a productive posting from EVERY member on the governing body then i think we should have a look at shrinking the FRA. GET INVOLVED OR GET OUT.
Strong words i know but its my opinion and i am ready for the backlash.
Meeting soon please Kane.
Shane
Oh just 1 other thing......
The fanfic section is there for the up coming roboteers. There are people there who have been writing events and have actually turned their hand to building feathers and buying heavies. People should actually spend the time and read some on their stuff you might actually be flattered that they are afterall YOUR fans.
Keep up the good work fanfic you have my full backing no worries.