The GC isnt a problem. For one thing, skirts arent 100% effective and for another thing, all wedged vapours boast a 0 GC wedge. Anything above 1 mm can be exploited in this game.
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The GC isnt a problem. For one thing, skirts arent 100% effective and for another thing, all wedged vapours boast a 0 GC wedge. Anything above 1 mm can be exploited in this game.
We didnt do bad with 30mm of ground clearance!
Same here. GC is never really a problem. We usually have between 5mm and 10mm But Hannibal had close to 4 cm at the back.
Eteks are ~20cm DIA, ~14cm long. Youd need a fancy bevel/worm gearbox to get the power from them to 6 wheels. Not impossible (I think Big Nipper does something similar) but with the amount of power youre using, itll take a fair bit of space and weight to do it properly.
A possible weakness is that Nitrogen will only give you limited flips unless you have several large gas canisters aboard
Arent holes drilled in armour generally a bad idea?
Its not far off believeable for me, apart from trying to get Eteks in.
Ah, I can actually read the stats now! :proud:
Nitro-Gene 2.0
As I have mentioned before, don€™t bother with the weight reducing holes. If you want to loose weight on the armour then make it thinner. Spinners are less likely to go through a plate of 3.25mm Hardox than a plate of 4mm Hardox with holes in it for the blades to latch on to and rip open. For the shape, what do you mean by pointed sides and rear? Loose the Eteks; they really are not worth it. There are better and lighter things out there to give a bit of push. Most notably the LEM 130, which is around half the weight.
What hinge is the flipper? What size is the ram? How is the Nitrogen contained and in what quantity? Any details on batteries? Can it self right?
The sides are pointed like the rear of Tornado, on the rear and sides to lower the chances of FBSs tearing a panel open. That is why I feel the need to drill holes into the sides. It meant that I could make the flipper 6mm Hardox for the body compared to the 4mm for the body, meaning that if I face something like Psyclonised, even if he rips the shell open (And that might be tough), I know that the flipper can keep going, allowing me to have the upper hand.
The flipper is rear hinged and runs off 2 x 80mm rams at 500psi each, allowing me the same force of flipping as GeForce. The gas is contained in 2 x 3kg tanks, giving around 22 flips in a fight, and it has enough power to self-right in a 540 somersault! Stylish!
The reason Im using 46V Eteks rather than 48V LEM 130s is that everyone else is using LEMs and this is designed to be a rammer to combat rammers. So the Eteks, whilst being much heavier than LEMs provide 12 extra HorsePower, allowing me to ge tthe front under much more easily.
Have I made my points clear? :proud:
Ah I understand about the sides now, pretty good concept I reckon! Against spinners at least, anyway. Against fellow flippers it will leave you vulnerable to flips but since you have things to combat that then its OK.
Is the flipper 500psi as you just mentioned or 1000psi as it says in the stats? For the record, two rams operating at 500psi does not equal 1000psi, it equals 500psi. Or so I beleive... Also, how did you calculate that it has as much flipping force as GeForce?
Fair play about the motors, but more power does not always provide the answer. You are never going to meet the power of the serious rammers anyway. But I see your reason for wanting to be more powerful in the drive than the average vapourbot.
Sorry about the flipper, it just has a single ram at 1000psi.
quote:
Given the sucess from Nitro-Gene in Daves second tournument
I have honestly lost count of the tournaments I have written, but it must be in double figures, if not in the 20s
Paul you might want to switch your 46v Eteks for not two LEM130s, but FOUR LEM130s, at 36v. Even with four LEM130s and the batteries they swallow, theyd still be lighter than 2 Eteks and the batteries theyd swallow up. :P, and youd have 6 more horsepower. (36hp compared to 30hp with the Eteks)
And theres no such thing as running any heavyweight motor here, let alone Eteks, at 46v, without there being problems with the batteries: you wont get the full 30hp. :P If youre going to stick with the Eteks despite my advice, then run them at 48v :P
Ok, can someone check this out, see if its not too terrible:
NAME: Pending. (I suck at names. Im probably gonna use the next song that would work that comes up on my iPod.)
SHAPE: Box with wedge at front and inverted wedge at back.
COLOUR: Deep blue.
WEIGHT: Around 100kg
DIMENSIONS: L:110cm W:65cm H:23cm
SPEED: 25mph
TURNING CIRCLE:0mm
ARMOUR: 10mm hardox.
GROUND CLEARANCE: 0mm at the front, 0mm with hinged skirts at sides, 20mm at sides under the skirts and at back. (Well, 25cm at the very back, thanks to the inverted wedge.
MOVEMENT: 4 Wheels with Vulkanon tires and aluminium hubs powered by 4 48v LEM130s Powered by 4 NiCad battlepacks.
WEAPONS: None but the force.
SCRIMECH: Invertable.
Id thin down the armour to 4 or 5 mm hardox, and it should be fine. Or maybe make the top and bottom armour 3.5 mm hardox so youve got more weight allowance for the front, sides, etc which is where spinners are most likely to attack.
I think you can go a lot faster than 25mph. Not that that would be of any use in a small arena.
He may just want to keep that as his average speed...but whoa, 4 LEM130s @ 48v? Crazy. :crazy: However, Danny, Id add some more NiCads so that your vapour doesnt run out of power after a minute.
Also, how can its rear ground clearance be 25cm when it isnt even that high? Care to explain?
What do you lot reckon?
Ha-ka (Just going back to the original name)
Weight - 95.9kg
Dimensions - 75cm x 75cm x 45cm
Speed - 11.7mph 5.2m/s
Turning Circle - 0
Shape - Truncated pyramid with skirts all round.
Drive - 4 x S28-150 Magmotors producing just under 12BHp
Wheels - 4 lightweight thin aluminium hubs with tyres made from an old conveyor belt with tread cut into it.
Ground Clearance - 0mm under skirts, main body 6mm
Armour - 7mm Hardox, with 3.25mm Hardox skirts.
Weapon - A double ended Excalibur style axe made of hardened titanium. The axe weighs around about 10kg and is powered by 2 rams running off 750psi CO2. We doubt it will do much to Hardox unless it focuses on the same spot, however it should treat all but the thickest titanium with disregard.
Srimech - There are 2 long spikes on the side of the axe, which should allow us to gain purchase against the floor when flipped and right ourselves. These are made from 1cm titanium in order for them not to be too susceptible to breaking.
Strengths - Built to be robust, shouldn€™t be destroyed, and will destroy fodder.
Weaknesses - Relatively low drive. Weapon may not be effective against tougher armoured robots
Weight Breakdown (All parts are based on educated guesses)
Chassis - 10kg
Armour - 44kg
Drive - 6.9kg
Wheels - 6kg
Weapon - 10kg
Weapon Power - 9kg
Various other bits - 10kg
Thin the hardox down to 5mm :proud:
You can save a bit more weight by making the skirts out of Ti instead of hardox. Anything powerful enough to damage the skirts will also be powerful enough to break whatevers holding the skirt in place, so hardox isnt really a wonderful material.
I just wanted to ask people about this robot and tell me whats right/wrong with it.
UP-THRUST
€ WEIGHT: 100kg
€ ARMOUR: 10MM ABC (Aluminium Boron Carbide) for the body. 4MM Hardox for the flipper with a
€ SHAPE: High wedge shape with sides and rear sloped at 42* to stop spinners. At the rear is a extra Hardox wedge to prevent self-flipping
€ MOTORS: 2 x LEM 130€™s at 36V = 18HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 6 x Vulkanised wheels
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 80CM (H) 35CM (W) 80CM
€ COLOUR: The colour for the body is black with a red sign on the flipper saying €˜goodbye to the ground€™
€ WEAPONRY: The weaponry is a Nitrogen powered flipper, powered by a single 80mm ram at 1000psi, running on a 1:1 ratio, so the maximum it can flip is 3500kg! The Nitrogen is contained in 3 x 2kg bottles, giving me 22 flips.The flipper has a steel extension plate.
€ SPEED: 15MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0-7MM. 0 at the front and 7mm on the sides, without the 10mm Titanium skirts.
€ STRENGTH: Hellish flipper.
€ WEAKNESS: Weak body armour.
Pending
Cut the armour down to around 5mm Hardox. Do what Kody said regarding the clearance and motors/batteries. Otherwise that€™s pretty good.
Ha-ka
What batteries are you using? You€™re running at 24v to get 12hp, correct? Cut the Hardox down slightly to 4mm or 5mm. Too be picky, what length is the axe? What size rams are you using? How much gas is on board? Overall it€™s a very good bot.
Up Thrust
4mm Hardox for the flipper with a€¦ what? :lame: 10mm Ti skirting is way too thick, halve it at least. What batteries are you using? Turning circle? What hinge is the flipper? It€™s a nice GeForce clone, but there is one serious problem with the flipper. GeForce has the mechanism to reduce its flipping power so that it doesn€™t destroy itself. 1500kgs of force is already overkill, and you are saying that you want to put 3500kgs through the flipper?
But well done for cloning the master of clones! :proud:
IMO, Aluminum Boron Carbide is over-rated for armour.
Besides some writers have no idea what it will act like in a fight, as its rare (and expensive) stuff.
quote:
Also, how can its rear ground clearance be 25cm when it isnt even that high? Care to explain?
Well his robot is 23cm high, plus the 20mm (2cm) clearance provided by the wheels = 25cm at the tip of the inverted wedge.
Just because I wasnt studying the stats that analytically at the moment... :lame:
And besides, why does he need to put that anyway if its an inverted wedge? Well pretty much know what the clearance is.
I was just being thorough. :lame:
Your right, it is pretty unnecessary.
quote:
IMO, Aluminum Boron Carbide is over-rated for armour.
Funny, I just said the same about Titanium this morning. :)
Paul, the trick with flippers is this:
You have an amount of force that comes out of your cilinder. With the flipperarm you make a decision to use that force for either speed of power. It is always a trade-off.
Place the cilinder near the front you will have a lot of power, but gives your arm a limited amount of travel and swing and therefore you will more likely topple a robot over than really give it a launch.
Place the cilinder at the back gives you a lot of momentum but not a lot of power on the tip of the arm.
The trick is to find the sweet spot, where travel of the arm, speed, and sufficient power on the tip are at its optimum.
On our flippers we usualy have a 3:1 ratio, where 3500 kg of force at the ram still gives you a very impressive 1167kg (rounded of) at the tip of the arm. If your opponents are only 100kg, that is still plenty to send them flying.
Furthermore, Nitrogen has a serious downside, every flip you make the pressure drops, the flipping is not a constant. Your second flip will be less than the 1st, the 3d less than the 2nd and so on.
NITRO-GENE 3.0
€ WEIGHT: 100kg
€ ARMOUR: 4mm Hardox for the body. Holes are drilled into the slanted sides to allow for a 7mm Hardox flipper
€ SHAPE: Low invertible box with pointed sides and rear. At the front is a Storm 2 style wedge to end in getting underneath other robots.
€ MOTORS: 4 x LEM 130€™s at 36V = 36HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 6 Vulkanised Wheels.
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 80CM (H) 15CM (W) 60CM
€ COLOUR: Black all over with the flipper coloured red.
€ WEAPONRY: A full pressure Nitrogen powered flipper at 1000psi, using a single 80mm ram at 1000psi. The flipper is mounted in the middle of the robot, and is 20cm wide and runs 30cm up the body. Using a 3cm long Titanium strip underneath the flipper, and a heavy flipping arm, the flipper runs completely along the ground. Running on a ratio 2.5:1, the flipper produces 2000kg of force at the tips, allowing me to launch anyone away! This version has 3 x 3kg Nitrogen bottles, giving me 30 flips!
€ SPEED: 25mph
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM-2CM. At the front, it is completely 0mm. On the sides/rear, its 2cm. The orginal weakness of Nitro-Gene (its high ground clearance) has been seen to by the skirts on the sides/rear. They are 4mm Hardox skirts and are joined together like BioHazard. To avoid them breaking off, they are held in place by Hardox hinges.
€ STRENGTH: Pushing power and weaponry.
€ WEAKNESS: High speed may mean difficult driving
Would you like to give me advice on this new version of Nitro-Gene, and tell me if they may be any troubles.
Could you also check MeCannibal
MeCANNIBAL
€ WEIGHT: 110kg (Shuffler)
€ ARMOUR: 5MM Titanium on top and bottom.
€ SHAPE: Invertible low cylinder
€ MOTORS: 2 x S28-400 MagMotors at 36V = 12HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 2 x Shuffling pads
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 80CM (W) 80CM (H) 20CM
€ COLOUR: Black with scary human face with over sized teeth coloured red.
€ WEAPONRY: Ring spinner, made of 8MM Harox, weighing 30KG, powered by 2 x LEM130€™s at 36V to give it spinning speed of 2500RPM and producing 175KJ per blow with a spin-up time of 3.5 seconds. It 2 big teeth made of Hardox that curve out. The teeth are inserted into the body and have rows of Tool Steel spikes on the teeth to dig in. These teeth 5kg each and are designed to send all the spinning energy into one spot rather than small amount into multiple spots. It also has 5 Inches worth of Titanium shock-proof Foam to stop it self-destructing.
€ SPEED: 20MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM-8MM. It has a full-bodied skirt running completely along the ground that rises when the shell is spinning, but drops when the shell isn€™t spinning. This is powered by a simple 750w Bosch 36V motor and runs at the same time as the spinner.
€ STRENGTH: Scary name and weapon
€ WEAKNESS: Hard to control
Missing batteries...
And youre definitely not going to be able to reach a speed of 20mph with S28-400s on shufflng pads! Lower it to around 10-15mph.
Other than that, a giant improvement. :)
Can someone improve this machine:
Shiny Happy People
Shape: Box with Wedge
Colour: Mirror
Speed: 5mph
Weight: 99kg
Armour: 10mm corrugated fiberboard attached to a wooden chassis, but with some shiny old Robbie Williams CDs attached to the outside, so it looks like a mirror
Drive: 4 wheel drive with 4 Ford windscreen wiper Motors @ 12 volts
Power: Some 12 volt battery packs.
Wheels: 4 wheels
Ground Clearance: 2cm, but zero at the front
Dimensions in CM: 50 x 50 x 20
Weapons: Shiny Wedge
Srimech: None
Strengths: Its shiny!
Weaknesses: Its Shiny!
Nitro-Gene 3.0
More holes? *bashes head against a wall*
May be pushing the weight a bit with this one, but I€™m not sure. Is there such a need for an extreme drive train when you have a very potent weapon? I would personally lower the speed as well. I€™m also unsure about the skirts and give details on batteries if possible. But overall this doesn€™t look that bad€¦
MeCannibal
I don€™t think 2x S28-400€™s do 12hp at 36v, and you€™re wasting battery weight by having them at 36v because you aren€™t going to push anything. The skirt is a nice idea, but I really think you should get rid of it. Cut down the speed a little and you need details of batteries. Other than that, that€™s a seriously good vapourbot.
And I€™ll presume that Dave doesn€™t actually want Shiny Happy People looked at, unless he says otherwise. :lame:
Dont bash your head against the wall AJ -itll hurt :proud:
Thanks for your very kind comments about my robots and guiding me in the right direction, but there are a few things to explain about my robots.
Nitro-Gene 3.0
Its alright to have holes on this beast as the sides/rear of this are like Tornados rear end, except they come to a fine point, so if a spinner hits it, hes just hitting a line - nothing for him to grip and rip. I know its fast and powerful, but thats an advantage - the speed is spilt over 6 wheels, giving it enough traction to get up to speed almost instantly, and the speed allows me to hit something away, and the power helps me push under things and get them towards the wall and then flip them out.
MeCannibal
I know you want me to get rid of the self-raising skirt, but it gives MeCannibal an advantage over other ring/FB spinners, as it defeats the tactic of someone saying get to it before it spins up - with the self-raising skirt, they HAVE to let it spin before attacking, and then I can unleash my fury! The speeds been lowered though to 10mph to allow for acceleration
And on batteries, I know sod-all about batteries so I cant comment on that.
quote:
Can someone improve this machine:
Shiny Happy People
Shape: Box with Wedge
Colour: Mirror
Speed: 5mph
Weight: 99kg
Armour: 10mm corrugated fiberboard attached to a wooden chassis, but with some shiny old Robbie Williams CDs attached to the outside, so it looks like a mirror
Drive: 4 wheel drive with 4 Ford windscreen wiper Motors @ 12 volts
Power: Some 12 volt battery packs.
Wheels: 4 wheels
Ground Clearance: 2cm, but zero at the front
Dimensions in CM: 50 x 50 x 20
Weapons: Shiny Wedge
Srimech: None
Strengths: Its shiny!
Weaknesses: Its Shiny!
Cant be done.
Can someone make Counter realistic.
quote:
Can someone make Counter realistic.
No
Why not. I mean really I want a spinner killer which can fit inside the rules.
The problem is that you are unable to make proper stats, and people arent inclined to help you right now because of your behavior, and least of all me. Just leave, please...
What I just went through the toughest part of my life so far and ...(Rest removed)
(Message edited by big_nipper on January 29, 2008)
The problem with Counter is that the very concept is unworkable and illegal under FRA rules, which are what the majority of writers base their own rules on.
Counter doesnt just need to be improved, it needs to be completely re-worked, which we cant do for you.
If you want a spinner killer, most people go for a heavily armoured box rusher like Storm 2.
Well MAYBE if you started acting nicer towards people, ...(removed)
(Message edited by big_nipper on January 29, 2008)
Thank you Frank for the advice. Ive got an idea I could make it into an axe-bot.
Matter of fact, I was clubbing a seal yesterday with a 6lb sledge hammer, the seal on the S13 half shafts are killers to break :proud: