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Thats true but have you got the docs saying so. If the venue has said they need every thing tested dont you think they will ask for the documents to prove they have been PAT tested. Spent a lot of money on new feather for this event really want to go just cant afford the test. :sad:
its bad for the coops then and its something they will after sort out because they wont have any bots there then
There is no qualification as such for in-house PAT testing. All the HSE look for is a level of competency
The HSE recognise two levels of competency as regards PAT testing.
If you are using a PAT tester that says PASS or FAIL when a test is carried out, then you do not require any electrical skills.
Id suggest Robo challenge buy a simple fail / pass tester and a bunch of stickers..
Charge a nominal fee per test ...
(Message edited by woody on March 29, 2008)
We are currently looking into the best way to sort this out - So far to PAT test 200 items will be around the £600 mark, a cheap testing machine will also be along the same lines of cost.
We will keep you updated on our progress with this, along with when the signup page will be working again.
Isnt this already covered in the CE rating of electrical equipment?
We are currently looking into the best way to sort this out - So far to PAT test 200 items will be around the £600 mark, a cheap testing machine will also be along the same lines of cost.
We will keep you updated on our progress with this, along with when the signup page will be working again.
http://www.pattesters.co.uk/batt-pat-battery-powered-pat-tester.htmlhttp://www.pattesters.co.uk/batt-pat...at-tester.html
How stands that PAT thing towards Eu standards?
http://www.pattesters.co.uk/seaward-supernova-plus-pat-tester.htmlhttp://www.pattesters.co.uk/seaward-...at-tester.html
i have one of these.
Mario ...As far as I understand its aimed toward an employer....making them responsible for the safety of electrical appliances either in the workplace or in use by their employees.
Grant, as a mater of interest who said you needed the Roboteers own equipment to be PAT tested? This may be a grey area but my own opinion for whats worth is that mains powered equipment you lend out to Roboteers would need a PAT certificate (including extension leads). As the Roboteers are using their own equipment and they are not members of the public or are they employees of yours, the PAT requirement may not apply to the Roboteers. However, if the venue insist I guess they do not need to justify their stance.
Scope of the legislation
It is clear that the combination of the HSW Act 1974, the PUWER 1998 and the EAW Regulations 1989 apply to all electrical equipment used in, or associated with, places of work. The scope extends from distribution systems down to the smallest piece of electrical equipment.
It is clear that there is a requirement to inspect and test all types of electrical equipment in all work situations.
Your right Paul ...The Venue insists...insurance ...legal liability ...Blah...
(Message edited by woody on March 29, 2008)
Otherwise, just charge up a couple or hawkers to use you chargers from at the event. As for soldering - use a blow torch.
Woody, I really hate the way this country is going with regards to H&S, but I wont get started on that because Ill get all wound up. I frequently enforce the PUWER 98 regulations & EAW Regs when I freelance as a consultant and as regulations go they are not bad at all, its just how some organisations interpret them that is the problem.
Grant, how about trying a different venue?
We have had a few offers, and a few cheaper alternatives to buying PAT testing machines so things are starting to look better. The venue requires ANY mains powered things to be PAT tested, i beleive its part of their own insurance policy.
The Sign-up page is now working, sorry for the delay.
Not for me it isnt:angry:
i have signed one robot up psycho fling however i gave the wrong email- ill tell you over msn tomorrow Grant
but i tried to sign bow up but i got error again
whats going on?
what error message are you getting?
Same problem as alex signed 1 robot up tryed to sign another up error message
hmm, ive just tried it again a few times, first one worked, then after it didnt. If you go off the site and back on it seems to work again. Very strange, dave young is currently looking into it.
okits working for me entered 2 bots
shane can you enter phinix
Phoenix john. will test at oldham and see. you know the future for Phoenix so wouldnt want it damaging too much eh :)
yeh that works Grant, going off the site and back on again
both robots signed up
Gone through ok this morning :rofl:
Whirlpool is signed up along with the new, much lighter Aftershock- we have been removing most of the steel chassis and replacing with HDPE and so far it seems to be ok.
Whirlpool will also get some new sides made up with the all new spinner protection.
Also my school is currently building a robot to enter which wil sign up next week.
Will
http://www.teamshock.4mg.comwww.teamshock.4mg.com
Both machines signed up, its going to be good :)
PAT testing is not actually that hard to do yourself. The HSE publish a guidance note which outlines how to manage these things.
In summary a test every 3months plus a visual inspection every time equipment is used is essentially what is required.
In terms of competance, the HSE recognise two basic levels of competence depending on the test equipment being used.
1) Using a simple pass/fail machine which needs users to be trained on how to use the equipment.
2) Using a machine which gives actual readings which needs to be operated by a person competent to interperate the results.
It would probably be cheaper in the short term and certainly in the long term (considering testing should be done every three months) for event organisers to invest in a cheapish machine to do this themselves.
If people want a copy of the guidance note I can send it to them. Just email me.
I would also be happy to work with people to develop an ongoing testing & inspection regime. We would just need to sort out a few issues, liabilities being the main issue (not insured for personal stuff). Just contact me to discuss.
I would say this type of thing should really be part of the FRA event regs. Afterall the events whilst fun are for some a workplace and as such the legal requirements should be met.
Andy
Both Hannibalitos signed up.
damn thought this was next event but its ages away lol
when do you want entry fee?
robots need to get fixed up for this event - cant be having the problems we have had this yr
few events to get it sorted tho
Payment forms will be sent out when the 2 weeks for the reserved seeded spaces have finished. If you have signed up multiple robots we will first send you an e-mail regarding drivers of the robots as the rule on sign-ups requires 1 robot per driver.
We have a very local campsite all booked up for the friday night and saturday night - If you would like to stop if you could post on here or send me an e-mail that would be great thankyou.
We currently have had almost 30 robots sign up, so places are going fast.
We are still looking into the PAT testing and will keep you updated on it.
Tickets are now on sale on our website and at the venue reception, so lets hope they sell!!!
We will be camping
LJ they have our entry fee`s ;)
looking forward to beating you LJ ;)
Update on PAT testing
Robo Challenge have invested in a PAT testing machine to try and get roboteers equiptment tested easily during events.
We have spoken to the other event organisers and can confirm that we will be allowed to test your equiptment at Roaming Robots Stoke on trent event, and hopefully Aylesbury.
Due to the cost of the machine and time we will have to charge £1 per item to be tested, and free if your item fails. We understand that this is not a cost we want to charge, but will only result in around £2-4 per team.
Anyone who will be attending the UK Championships and not any of the above events we will be testing as early as possible at the event.
I would just like to note, that to avoid dissapiontment of failing the test, please make sure that all your mains leads/plugs are in good condition and free from damage.
If you have any qeuiries please get in-touch.
Hi grant, is the test required at every event, or do you put a sticker on it with a retest date of 12 months.
at my works they are tested every 6 months
Grant if i have mine tested at work and have a sticky lable on is that ok ?
John
ps we evan have to do mobile chargers
(Message edited by jct on April 11, 2008)
As the equipment is transported I think youll find the HSE recommends every three months. They also say that equipment should be visually inspected every time it is used in a new location.
Grant needs to have a record of the tests. I dont think the sticky label would be sufficient but if you can provide an actual record of the test that will probably meet his needs. (Obviously Grant will need to confirm).
Andy
I think we should all be aware that at this time Robo Challange are the only EO that is insisting on PAT.
It is arguable that the circumstances under which we use our personal equipment are even coverd by PAT regs which are designed to protect employees and the public from defective electrical equipment. A team attending an event and using their own electrical equipment is neither an employee of the EO or a member of the public.
The EOs own equipment is another matter and is more than likely covered by the PAT regs.
I & others would be interested to know precisely which section(s) of the PAT regs Robo Challange have interprated as being applicabe to personally owned equipment.
Im sorry, but its a requirement of the venue doesnt work for me, seems very strange that this is the only venue in the country to ever mention PAT!
Therefore I have to ask the question as to why this paticular EO is burdening teams with yet another expense in addition to the sign up fees already announced.
I think that this whole business needs to be throughly investigated by the FRA and professional advice taken from the IEE.
im guessing a bit here, but perhaps its compulsory for the buildings insurance etc.... in the event of a claim (e.g euipment causes building to go on fire or something)or it may be they have had a problem at these premises in the past with using untested electrical equipment(hence it not being raised at other events) but then if their was a accident or damage would it be covered under robochallenges own liability insurance?? i dont know.
But i believe robochallenge wouldnt have shelled out money for the required equipment unless they had no choice.
The point Im trying to make is if you take the PAT regs at face value they simply do not cover personal equipment used for your hobby, regardless of location, providing the mains supply at that location is compliant with current IEE standards.
An example would be you checking into a hotel room and them saying you cant plug your mobile phone charger into a socket in your room until we see a PAT certificate for it!
But the same hotel would be required to have PAT certifcation for the TV in the room because they have a duty of care to you as their customer to ensure the TV is safe to use.
In other words you use your personal equipment at your risk.
Given the above I wonder if the venue could actually enforce such a clause in their contract?
(Message edited by scorpion on April 11, 2008)
As Ive mentioned before, the venue (as do most venues) require all mains powered items to be PAT tested before used in the building. This is part of the venues own insurance policy.
Alot of venues just dont enforce it, but this one does, and I know of atleast 1 Robots Live event who are also requiring all equiptment to be PAT tested.
If your items have already been tested and are within date on the label with no obvious messing with them then we will allow them to be used. We will check your cables during tech check to make sure that they have not since been damage since your previous test.
Geoff, if you have any questions on this could you please call me to clear things up as I just want facts pointed out on this thread rather than false speculation. No disrespect.
Without all equiptment PAT tested then the venue will not allow them to run!