quote:
number of testes conducted
Now now James, family forum :wink:
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quote:
number of testes conducted
Now now James, family forum :wink:
Very interesting discussion!
James B has a very good point about the testing. This needs to be clarified.
Safety has to be paramount to everyone involved in roboteering from 14 year old newbies to experienced EOs. Lets hope this doesnt split the EOs at home and abroad.
No need for me to finish my feather spinner any time soon then (a least this year for the events i was thinking of attending).
Post No 316 from a non member.
jamie....
after spending so long writing it
and you spending that long reading it.
THAT is what stands out to you????
awesome. love it! :)
:crazy:
MY view.
It would appear that there is some sort of imperical evidence to support the shortcomings of some arenas.
BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS STATEMENT FOLLOWS:-
If the current arena construction is incapable of containing certain types of bot and the debris from them ....then that type of bot cannot be run.
COMMERCIAL SIDE:-
It would be commercial suicide for the E.O.s if a serious accident occurred ..... Theyd become uninsurable and no venue would have them / us.
I believe that the FRA actually backs the EOs in their approach to gaining insurance by certifying the suitability of the arena? ..... So the FRA needs to retain its credibility if we wish them to continue representing the Roboteering communities interests.
ROBOTEERING SIDE
It would also sound the Death Knell for the sport of Roboteering if such an accident occured.
So basically Im in favour of the safety measures .... The obvious solution is a better arena/s ..... The cost OUCH!
Woody .... Membership subscription posted today.
Well done Woody, some common sense shown.
The first the FRA cannot certify arenas. For instance we cannot control the quality of their welding hence the term Guidelines
The event organisers approved these measures themselves as they know there is a potential problem. Yes there is a cost to the event organisers. For most of them it is not unreasonable.
Arena guidelines have not changed since just after Robot Wars stopped filming.
The robots themselves have moved on considerably.
Besides the obvious problems that have been discussed fairly openly, we know of 206 more reasons why something had to give.
Featherweights are heading for the power of heavy weights.
The 206 is the miles per hour of a 500mm bar spun up on the end of a lem motor and all in 12KG
Andy
Try 226 mph with 3hp and all in 12kg
was done 3 years ago... wheres the problem?
not a LEM, but over 300mph, and 500mm diameter.
weight of disk? mine was 2.1kg
if anyone wants a demo ill get one done.
James,
For gods sake give it a rest will you, if you dont see the problem, then I have to seriously question if you even understand what the FRA in conjunction with the event organisers are trying to do here for all our benifit.
As a voting member of our govening body I would have expected better from you!
Geoff Smith,
Chairman, FRA.
as a voting member of our governing body I would have hoped to have had a say in endorsing safety tests conducted on the behalf of the FRA.
If it is in any way unclear, I will make it very clear right now.
My insurance company have told me that they do not know of the FRA, and do not care what your guidelines are. I must satisfy the that I have ensured any arena I sign off as safe is suitable and sufficient for its purpose. This is a legal term.
Rather than rely on the finding of individuals without questioning their methods or reasons, I am, at my own expence, commissioning an independant ballistics test of various thicknesses of polycarbonate. If the FRA do not see my problem, then feel free not to make use of this information, that you should have got yourselves before relying on unsubstatiated guesswork.
No offense, but Ill give it a rest now, as clearly my concerns over your blind acceptance of questionable test are causing trouble again. I look forward to the minutes of the meeting and the full breakdown of testing done. Should make for a nice 2 minute read.
James Baker
someone who clearly does not understand what the FRA and the event organisers are trying to do aside from provide one organizer with a monopoly and all others with a large extra expense.
Ever heard of archery netting?
(Message edited by jamesb on January 23, 2007)
Please note,
Robo Challenge has for some time been of the opinion that arena roofs were not substantial enough to safely contain spinners. This was clearly demonstrated at the UK championships. From that point, Robo Challenge made the decision not to run spinners in an arena with a net roof.
Knowing that the current FRA guidelines were obviously inadequate we decided to conduct our own tests to establish a safe solution.
The FRA would have been negligent not to look at reviewing its guidelines, especially when being pushed by other event organisers.
At the meeting held on the 30th Sept 2006 (the minutes of which are on this website) the FRA announced that it was to review current arenas and guidelines before the end of the year and report back to those concerned in early 2007. This is exactly what they did.
As we had an event arranged for Dec 2006 we performed our own tests and came to the conclusion that 5mm polycarbonate was the most suitable roofing material for our purpose, we already had 10mm walls as that is what the grade 2 guidelines previously required. Our specification also included various other features not in the FRA guidelines at the time, including outer wall kick plates, separation zone flooring and substantial doors. We then built our arena to meet OUR safety specifications before the FRAs were available. Regardless of the FRA we built an arena which we felt was safe for its purpose.
The FRAs tests and the Robo Challenge tests were performed completely independently and without either organisation knowing about the other until tests had finished.
Robo Challenge played no part in and had no involvement in writing or helping to produce the new arena build guidelines and had no influence on the FRAs decisions. The first time we were made aware of the content of the new build guidelines was at the Event organisers meeting on Saturday 29th Jan 2007 along with the other event organisers.
We support the FRA on this matter even though there are items within the guidelines we would prefer to be altered.
Robo Challenge does not intend to discuss this matter further on this forum.
I assume you mean 20th, noth 29th.
Even earlier than that DRG has conducted its own solution to the roofing issue and opted not for polycarb for the roof but a lighter material just as capable if not more than that to stop schrapnell from getting out. The only downside to that material (hdpe) is that its not transparant which means that in theatres you might not see anything if you are on the balcony.
That the roofing of the current arenas had to be improved with regards to heavyweight spinners i had no doubt. That is why I pushed (and for a part payed) for a new roof on the DRG arena months ago.
However I really doubt that any feather spinner at any realistic velocity is capable of penetrating the XFM roof given the sheer height of the arena, and the thickness of the cover used. Even with the current feahter spinners, the height of the Roaming Robots arena means it should have no problem, because by the time parts that broke off reach the roof there enery levels have reduced drasticaly. The only danger I see in the Roaming robots arena for feathers is the arena flipper, launching a feather spinner from there falls into the not good catagory.
I repect the guidelines of the FRA, although I do feel that with regards to feathers that that decision might be a little bit over the top. And before you start asking, no I do not own a feather spinner.
Have we ever consulted with the spinner masters of the world? The RFL has had experience with high KE spinners in any weight class for years now.
just so i can clarify,which organisers events at present i can attend with my featherweight spinner if any?
Adrian Robo Challenge only, so far as the new rules cover. If James Baker is going to go it alone I wish him the best of luck :)
I personally think given appropriate spinner restrictions (none of the little spinner like) arenas such as XFM should still be covered for spinner use - perhaps an intermediatery FRA approved set of standards allowing the likes of cadet class spinners to run in such arenas would be worth looking into?
Surely the FRA is there to commission such things as ballistist tests so that EOs dont have to go it alone?
Gentlemen,
It has been pointed out that featherweight spinners which have the power of heavyweights of last year or 2 years ago are not compatible with fabric roofs.
The event organisers know this and have agreed to adopt the FRA proposal now.
Why they are reluctant is because it means work and cost.Safety is their declared first priority. If the event organisers go back on their decision it will be a sad day. With the knowledge they have, should an incident occurr they may be seen criminally negligent.
The FRA governing body have been denied their scrutiny and voteing which is normal procedure.
The FRA has no option but to rubber stamp the document and police it accordingly.
The FRA was formed to look after roboteers interests. The event organiser their interests Are you saying that the the roboteers organisation should not deal with safety on your behalf.
The FRA has a duty to look after all roboteers should they be spinners or the vast majority non spinners.
While the spinner teams are making it out that they are doomed to extinction the event organisers are pulling out all the stops to organise events that they can compete in.
I thought one was going to be announced last night but may be tonight.
Lets start to here from the silent majority please.
May I say from the start this is my view and not necessarily the view of the whole team. We have all known something had to be done ever since the UKs. I think we have all buried out heads in the sands but this problem could have ended in disaster something had to be done. I for one would have been devastated if a child had been seriously injured at the fault of Little Spinner. Now lets all stop arguing and get the arenas up to what we believe in our hearts to be a safe standard and as quickly as possible. Roaming Robots have stated that it will probably not happen in 2007 to their arena. Lets hope they reconsider as they will be holding the UKs without spinners would be like holding the olympics without the Americans and I think that takes quite a bit of shine off the trophies. Lets also spare a thought for the Roboteers who have invested a lot of time and money in creating robots like Ironside, Batterbot, Alpha and many many others who have built robots to take on and beat the spinners that have now just become over armoured push bots.
Some how though I dont think Roaming Robots and other event organises have taken the decsion to stop spinners for this year lightly and something i think we all forget is that time and money is needed to get arenas up to scratch has no one thought that it that might not be financially possible to do this just yet as well as well as time. (from what i know in the past from jonno) Roaming robots as a big diary so far this year looking at events as well as other things jonno might do in his spare time as well as other event organisers and arenas. I dont think its as easy just to reconsider obviously its not that easy to get it done this year. Its a shame though to host the UK champs without spinners but thats the price we pay for safety
(Message edited by bex on January 24, 2007)
(Message edited by bex on January 24, 2007)
ALL BE IT SAD NEWS FOR US SPINNERS
and having just got dizzy spinning great and chewing and splitting ti at last :)
We as a team stand by the desision to stop spinners running and are all for the changes as safety is off the uppermost importance .. we are quiet prepared to sit and wait and run our robots (not spinning ) as we have done in the past when circumstances required us too..
Realisticly speaking (my own oppinion ) its not the winning but the taking part (although winning is nice :):))
so in brief we respect and accept this action
Shame. I really love spinning weapons. But Id rather see no spinners than torn-up walls. :wink:
Guys
Some good news for the feather weight community.... see live events - RR National Space Centre.
A full combat feather weight weekend in our new feather class 2 arena.
Things evolve, robots have evolved, the way I see it, its now time for the arenas to evolve too.
Im sure XFM will solve their problems, Robo-Challenge are organising events as we speak I€™m sure, and we have 1 to offer so far.
Lets stop arguing about the who€™s, where€™s and why€™s, and get on with the 2007 events.... TOGETHER !!!! :)
John
Roaming Robots
one thing to remember, no matter what..... the crowd love carnage and spinners so lets not start the sport on a slippery slope.
I think thats probably the most positive thing been said for a few days on here :)Lets hope that attitide is catching
excellent news jonno, lets all look forward to the 2007 calendar!
Is there a document online with all the latest guidelines to arena safety?
The document will be made public once it has been futher checked, converted and uploaded to the website.
As soon as it is, can you give me a sign please? This is regarding the DRG arena.