that sounds reasonable. i dont want to take things off topic here, but i do think the tanks should be weighed full. I beleive if its over-weight when it goes in, it should not be allowed!
Printable View
that sounds reasonable. i dont want to take things off topic here, but i do think the tanks should be weighed full. I beleive if its over-weight when it goes in, it should not be allowed!
which is typical of someone who does not use co2.
what happens if you cannot fill your bottle due to it being too warm? can you put more batteries in to get back up to weight? is gas (petrol) included in the weight? what about the gas allowance we introduced here? Can we have 3000psi aswell?
its all very complicated, and we should not even go there. lets resolve the weight issue first eh?
I agree partly with grant, But there are rules that stop people taking the pi*s out of the consumables rule, i believe 2kg of gas is the max allowable consumable limit, witch is sensible- as heavys are allowed to weigh max of 102kg anyhow to give variation of scales when being weighed at an event.
and as for what happens if you cannot fill your bottle due to it being too warm? its never been too warm if its hot (like at fairford) underfill your bottle to about 75% of its maximum fill leval (so about 1.5kg in a 2kg bottle), and dont chill it during re-filling, this way its got enough comfertable room to expand.
I agree with Chad. The FRA has stacks of pneumatic bots. It only makes sense to use all of the FRAs experience in making a unified rule set.
sorry, double post.
(Message edited by Philip Taylor on July 24, 2006)
JB, if that was the case then yes I wouldnt argue about filling your robot with batteries. if its in the weight, its in the weight!
i see where you are going there dave, you still get your pressure, but your bottle filled to 75% still leaves it half a kilo lighter than if full. thats an extra mm of titanium on your scoop :)
hope you see what i was trying to say, not pressure, weight.
That is true, but yer as you say, you could add extra armour on places.
Back on topic.
not got a clue what your getting at.
End of the day, Turbulence weighs 101.15 empty of gas and 103.15 full (ish) on Jonnos scales. Ill change it when i have to:) At the momment it fits the rules fine.
so basically, both of ou are saying you dont know what Im talking about?
WHY POST TO ARGUE THEN???
sorry guys, but please try to understand my point if you can, ill try to explain.
MY POINT
weighing robots full is fine with full bottles. But if one bottle is half full, and no co2 is left to fill it, or for whatever reason you cannot get the full amount in, you can change the number of battery cells you have, add armour, or whatever, bringing you back up to weight. This means depending on what happens on the co2 scales you need to change the robot configuration?
sounds silly, but imagine having 200-300 gramms variance in a raptor. thats 5% variable weight for lipos, titanium? hard to police the overall weight with tanks full?
I see no reason not to keep the 100kg limit plus gas in addition, up to a maximum of 104 with not less than 4kg gas. (ie, you cannot be 104kg just because you use co2, if you only have a single 600g bottle.
Turbs overweight with no gas? illegal then.
Its not hard to weigh a robot with no gas, check the bottle is deffo empty, weigh it then add 2kg per bottle ontop?
Check the rules James your allowed 2% variable on the event organisers scales. Turb comes under 102kg on jonnos scales, Therefore not illegal.
Congradulations, your third argument on one forum today.
Back on subject?
Guys,
this is not helping!... Co2 limits and any allowances for variations in scales are just a couple of the things that will need to be addressed when, OR IF we try to get a unified rule set. But rest asured IF we even attempt to write them, they will be a LONG time comming.
In the meantime, can we just get this weight thing sorted?
It seems from what has been said here that most of us are in favour in pricable of the weight proposals from Prof. Calkins.
To clarify..
Raptors... 6Kg (No change)
Featherweights... 13.6Kg (Increase of 1.6Kg)
Middleweights... 55Kg (Increase of 5kg)
Heavyweights... 100Kg (No change)
Superheavyweights... 155Kg (reduction of 45Kg)
(Anyone know of any in UK/Europe??)
So I guess that if the FRA/DRG/GRA eventualy agree to these weight changes no one will be too upset, and we can finaly put this thing to bed?..PLEASE!
(So I can stop stressing about it...for a while anyway!!)
Raptors... 6Kg (No change)
Featherweights... 13.6Kg (Increase of 1.6Kg)
Middleweights... 55Kg (Increase of 5kg)
Heavyweights... 100Kg (No change)
Superheavyweights... 155Kg (reduction of 45Kg)
Im fine with this list. Anyone any major objections?
Sounds good :)
I think you going to hate me now Geoff, but.. What about True walkers? What would their limits be?
all fine by me. the sooner the better as far as im concerned.
sorry about the off topic geoff, but its a good point, are those empty or full of co2 weights?
dave, ive had no arguements today. looking at all my posts today...
I put my a$$ on the line over sidewinders so as to give roboteers every second of notice i could. some people seem to thing i build these things so give me a ard time, but having repeated myself 4 or 5 times it finally sinks in that maybe people should wait for official posts?
2nd, I ask for a simple thing in the safety section, and i get flamed, so give in and cancel my auto notification so i have no roblem.
finally, I try to ask here about full or empty co2 weights and again get the old one two from the tweedle twins. If this was an arguement id have bohered to read your posts guys, but it aint worth it because Ive never been a fan of fiction and fantasy.
back on topic, can we have the weight increases tommorrow please :) thats how keen I am
also, do the RFL know about our gas allowance in the robot weight and have they given us feedback on it? I know that is something Andy is very keen on, so Im sure its been mentioned? Are we also looking at standard tollerance oris this further down the road of discussion?
cheers
Leo, Dont even go there!!
I will be in the Nederlands from 11th August and will be more than happy to discuss your walkers weight issues (with a large hammer!) :wink:
geoff, out of interest, have we heard of any robots that are made illegal by these proposals? the superheavy drop doesnt effect us obviously, but is anyone actually out of competition without mods?
If not, I think we can safely say that most people are either in favour, not opposed, or willing to accept all proposals. Aside from 1 or 2 who have stated they are not in favour, (but whos robots never actually sat at 12kg most of the time anyway) I think it is one sided enough to propose we vote on it asap?
you have e-mail James.
so do you dave :)
Geoff,
There are,in theory, lightweights as well. Some 75 posts ago I did suggest 27.3kg as the standard to bring the UK into line with the current US standard, rather than standardising on 30kg, as this represented a big and unnecessary change for both communities.
Other than that, I am very happy with all the proposals made by you and Prof. Calkins.
what do our weight reps think?
I say go for it then. Too many people seem it a good idea to discard it even though i do not 100% like the idea (i guess ill like it when it happens lol)
quote:
I will be in the Nederlands from 11th August and will be more than happy to discuss your walkers weight issues (with a large hammer!)
Ok, Iam the one holding the Hardox 650 Axe. :)
No but seriously, in this discussion the walkers have been neglected because there arent that many around, but it is still something we should look at.
Will they not still allowed double the weight?
If so, it allows them even more weight with the increase, hopefully edging someone towards making one!
Thats the whole point, I dont know if or how our overseas cousins rule on walkers or shufflers. Maybe they dont even give a weight advantage, I dont know.
the way i see it, all robots are currently still legal, except maybe mechadon and any other superheavyeight walkers? Unless otherwise stated I would assume the current rules on walker stand (whatever they are)
I think Leo is turning Geoffs hair grey :)
Walkers from RFL
Weight Classes. This event offers the listed weight classes in section 2.1. [
There is a 100% weight bonus for non-wheeled bots.] (Non-wheeled robots in the 340
class may receive a 35% bonus. There is no weight bonus for shufflers or other forms of
locomotion which are predicated on rolling - see 3.1.2 for a definition of a non-wheeled
robot.)
http://botleague.net/doc/RFLTechRegs-2006-07.pdfhttp://botleague.net/doc/RFLTechRegs-2006-07.pdf
The FRA build rules on walkers are as follows...
2.2. Legged Robots [Walkers] can weigh up to twice the specified weight in all classes. A walker must employ moveable legs to support its weight. Robots with rolling or sliding mechanisms will not be classified as walkers.
Ok, so no change there then.
Hello friends,
at the moment we (GRA) also discuss the standardization of the weight classes. But there are very sceptical voices. A complete adaptation of rules must take place, only new weight classes are pointless. Who has the money / time to build completely new bots (without need).
(sorry about my english)
regards
Dirk K.
Chairman GRA
What issues specifically do your people have with the proposed weight change?
Or is it simply a case that the change in weight is not enough? That instead you are suggesting that the whole rule set needs to be looked at and standardised?
More the other way around. They dont feel the need to change the rules set, because the germans are not planning to go abroad to the US and they dont think it is likely that US roboteers come to Germany to fight.
I think that is the general feeling about the subject in Germany right Dirk?
well if thats the overall feeling then theres still no problem! if the GRA dont want to change rules then done. Everyone else stil can
Raptors... 6Kg (No change)
Featherweights... 13.6Kg (Increase of 1.6Kg)
Middleweights... 55Kg (Increase of 5kg)
Heavyweights... 100Kg (No change)
Superheavyweights... 155Kg (reduction of 45Kg)
I would vote of Geoffs proposal.
Personally i would like to see this pushed through ASAP as i am currently mid build on a feather. The sooner the weight issue is resolved and set in stone the sooner i can finish my robot and get along to some live events.
So please people. Hurry up!!:uhoh:
I agree that if its going to be done do it soon :)
Before the champs it may be a teenie bit of a rush but the summers when most of us have more free time so perfect oppuritunity to mod bots if need be perhaps if the word can get round the teams fast enough?
I dont know what roaming robots position is on the debate though - no word yet?
Changing before the Champs would be a disaster lol. Especially to people like me who have spent hours machining the last few grams from bits here andthere to get under 12kg
January 1st 2007 is probably a good a date as any for a change over date. Nice and easy to remember (If weight change is agreed of course).
I gotta say. I have read through the whole discussion of the RFL forum and at times it gets quite confusing with the constant back and forth between lb and kg. Would be nice to get all countries to go metric.
Also unlike hear, there has been very little discussion on the RFL about changing the rules IE pneumatic. They seem to be concerned with the costs involved in competing overseas.
Hi,
our (GRA) diskussion is still in progress. There are voices for an weight change and also voices against it. This is just demokratie. If the FRA and the DRG decide on a weight change, we will not be against it. This would not help the sport. But the weight change can be (in my opinion) only the beginning of an international set of rules.
Regards
Dirk
Heres a quote from the RFL Forum... http://forums.delphiforums.com/THERFL/messages?msg=3527.165http://forums.delphiforums.com/THERF...s?msg=3527.165
If the organizations dont care enough to tell everyone how many active bots they have in what weight classes then perhaps we call that none.
I think the FRA and other Associations should attempt to answer it.
Id also like to know:)
(Message edited by woody on July 26, 2006)