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Might be interesting to see it in EdWars/the impending grade 1 arena, although presumably only against the less famous crushers (Snakebite and Viper - have I got that right? I should know better, sorry.)
Mind you, if they got the right height so the blades didnt touch it, it might be interesting against Typhoon2... (more so than the anti-spinner weapon would have been, at least).
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Fluppet
what was their anti spinner weapon that i have heard so much about and yet never been given a description of?
My understanding (and Ive never seen it either) was that its a static spike, presumably very well supported, with a convenient mount of a thick layer of rubber which covers the outside of Tornado.
But its been years since I read that, so it might have been completely corrupted in my memory. Team Tornado?
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Fluppet
I know what it was. It was a set of tyres set up on a rotating frame, so when the spinner hit the tyres, the fram revolved and Tornado took no damage. It had no offensive capability, so it was banned.
Nope, that wasnt what it was either Frank !
It was an outer Titanium ring around Tornado which was shock mounted onto the chassis using tyres. This not only held the spinner at bay, but also took the shock impacts out of their attacks.
Saying it had no offensive capacity was pointless, their scoop had no offensive capability either, but that was allowed ! They could ram people with the scoop, or the front section of the anti-spinner weapon.
Sadly this was another example of Mentorn making changes to the rules as they went along !
Still, they were going to use it against Hypnodisc in Series 6 and won with the non-offensive scoop anyway :)
Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com
Well, the wedge had two spikes at the top corners, so thats probably why it got past the series 6 rules in terms of offensive capabilities.
BTW: in series 7, they mentioned a weapon no.4, which was no good against flippers and never got used - what was it?
On their site, Andrew mentions them converting the ACW disk/bar into a vertical spinner.
Frank: interesting, and roughly what some people (including me) have been suggesting as an anti-Typhoon device. :-)
Ed: Thank you; clearly Id picked up on the shock mounting (I should have clarified that by outside I meant horizontally...) without picking up on the hard outer surface. I always thought having an entirely rubber outer coating was a recipe for leaving chunks of rubber all over the arena anyway. And Mentorn, inconsistent? Surely not! :-)
Stephen: Im interested too!
Mike: That sounds weird - I really cant see the advantage (other than possibly making it harder to chew the weapon). Ill have to go and have a look in a quiet moment.
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Fluppet
I was close... The principle was the same.
And yes, Tornados scoop does have offensive capability as it allows them to get under robots and push them more efficiently.
back to the whole robot as a weapon debate- in that respect tornado in that setup is just the same as storm 2 verion 1, which was not allowed as it had no offensive weapon! Ah, they joys of mentorn thinking/or lack of...
Mentorn declared robots such as Storm 2 and Tornado boring and made them apply weapons, in storms case the lifter, in tornados case having little weapons such as lifters or rotating toothpicks on each wedge they applied.
They missed the point though, it is the robot that is the weapon.
Regardless of thier philosophical short-sightedness, they missed the point that by allowing Torando to use its charity event scoop, storm 2 version 1 should have been allowed to eneter.
But Storm 2 version 1 had no weapons at all. Tornado did have some sort of working part on all of its scoops.
Im not sure thats the case. Unless youre talking about spikes, and storm 2 does have spikes- I have one of its spikes that got broken off at worthing.
Tornado didnt have any working part on its scoop George until Series 7.
Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com
Have the full results of RW7 & the 3rd World Championship been posted on the Team Storm site, Ed?
quoteMentorn declared robots such as Storm 2 and Tornado boring/quote
Thats robots that charge around the arena at rather high speeds and smack into things at rather high speeds and also smack things into walls at rather high speeds. Oh, and causing damage, too.
Shows how much they know about robots...
A boring robot is one that gets under the opposition once, drives to the edge and flips them out within 20 seconds. Or one that gets under the opposition once (usually within 20 seconds), squeezes it a few times without letting it go and then drops it in a corner (if its broke by then) or down the pit (if its not).
Sorry, should have mentioned i was talking about Series 6 contest. Yes, it was apparent that Tornado had no moving parts on the disc - but for series 6 they were classed as interchangeable weapons. Hmmm. I think it may be another example of inconsistent thinking from Mentorn.
A boring robot is one that gets under the opposition once, drives to the edge and flips them out within 20 seconds.
Two of the more memorable fights of the last series were Dantomkia doing that to IG-88, and Gravity doing that to Dantomkia! Neither of those fights or bots were boring!
Its just a matter of opinion Eddy. Some people find flippers very boring. I personally dont.
Oh yes, and on my last post disc should read wedge.
I think further to the no weapons debate, Robot Wars should have kept the Battlebots school of thinking going and allowed all pushers or wedges in anyway, even if they didnt have a working weapon. They can be very interesting and successful and there are many examples of this. Its better to see a well built pusher slam Robots around the arena than see a Robot with a rubbish weapon break down after a few hits.
quoteTwo of the more memorable fights of the last series were Dantomkia doing that to IG-88, and Gravity doing that to Dantomkia! Neither of those fights or bots were boring!/quote
They were also the shortest, and a total turn-off to watch (how you can say that 10-second fights are not boring is beyond me). And given that those two robots use nothing but that tactic every time, that means that most or all fights involving them last a few seconds, hence theyre boring IMO. (Dantomkia especially, see most of its recent fights) Razer was boring IMO because every fight was a predictable one-sided affair that died as a contest after a few seconds. (mainly because Razer never met a robot that could get off the wedge, and thats why Tornado beat them with the cage - because it enabled them to)
I dont know about you, but I like to see a good evenly-contested battle, not a 10-second spectacle. Im not particularly against flippers, and I know that fights involving them can be great to watch, but unfortunately most of them end up being either brief (due to that ridiculously low arena wall or no/broken srimech on the opponent) or one-sided (due to the low ground clearance culture).
But thats all in the past now, hopefully the Roaming Robots arena is better than the RW one.
In my oppinion, razer was never boring, and i personally feel that if a robot has such excellent design qualitys that very few, if any, robots could defeat it, then that does not make it boring. Boring is where 5-4-3-2-1-flip! Oh! and its out!
I like it when two fippers really go for it, but in series 7 no flippers really went for it unless they were near the edge of the arena.
An example is bulldog breed vs hard, bulldog didnt fire its flipper till hard were near the wall because other wise some people would of classed it as a wasted flip.
If robot wars is to continue in this way (i.e 5-4-3-2-1-flip! Oh! and its out!) then no wonder people stop watching it!
Just my thought.
Mike
http://www.omegaman.dsl.pipex.comhttp://www.omegaman.dsl.pipex.com
Its a very good point Mike, and i agree with you on the Razer issue, but yes many flippers can be tediously one sided, but they can also make for great fights and moments, and many of Robot Wars greatest moments have been centered around flippers. Just a thought.
Mike, if you cant stand flippers, build a robot that can go against them.But take care, Im still developing even more powerfull and effeci«nt ways of launching other machines.
I never said i cant stand them, infact i prefer them to most types of weapons but i am just saying, that 5-4-3-2-1-flip oota isnt fun anymore like it used to be.
if i couldnt stand them then i just wouldnt watch RW, i apoligise if i made it sound that way, as i didnt mean to.
Tho me building a robot to go against would be an intersting project:)
Mike
Back to the Gravity v. Dantomkia fight.........
Dont you think that WJs excellent driving was more of a factor in the outcome by getting into the position straight from the word go to flip Dantomkia OOTA rather than the actual flip itself?
I certainly wasnt bored by that!
It was great driving: both WJ trying to get his flipper in and Mike to try to get away and get his own flipper in. Even if it lasted only 6 seconds the replays were very interesting to watch.
What IS boring ? Knowing that an invincible crusher will crunch into the other robot eventually and waiting until the other dies ? Two robots performing the infamous Robo-walz for minutes on a row ? One robot whacking at another with a hammer or ax without denting it or even causing sparks to fly ? Watching a spinner launch both itself and the opponent into orbit and then see which one did not survive the impact ? Phah, there are so many boring things in Robot Wars that Im amazed we dont find cobwebs on our TV set after an episode.
Grow up people, even the most fascinating book, sport or film still has its dull moments. Learn to live with that. And discover the beauty of Zen... there is a certain elegance and serenity to be found in those boring parts in contrast to the really exiting things... which would not be exiting at all if we had not just experienced boredom anyway...
Surely whats boring is just a matter of opinion anyway, so theres no point saying what is and isnt?
*nods his head*
Wow someone agrees with me
I didnt think the Gravity-lighting fight was boring. Nor did I think Gravity-Tornado was boring. Or the 4-way melee Gravity-Hodaf the bad-hydra-thor for that matter...
Fights dont get boring cause of the robots, fights get boring cause of the drivers.
Anyone remember the hypnodisc dominator2 fight ? BORING ! Which couldve been a very interesting fight !
Only reason I ootaed dantomkia at the first chance I had was because I knew it would be very hard to get a second chance. At that point the urge to survive and get to the next round was bigger then to make an interesting fight.
Mike and me couldve gone on for 5 minutes flipping eachother, but luck decided otherwise.
Find us on a live event and see how much fun it is watching a flipper battle !!!
Yeah, but the thing is with the Dominator Hypno-disc fight was this.
OK, so Hypno-disc didnt want any damage done to them, so they stayed out of it. But ALSO, theyd noticed that Dominator had lost drive to one wheel and were waiting for them to be counted out. But they were NOT counted out. The fight just continued. And, as a result...zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Now, the thing is, why was Dominator not counted out? (and why was it also not counted out in its fight against 13 Black?). On both occasions, it was clearly only moving on one wheel, and on one of those occasions (the first one), the team confirmed it. And every other robot before that time (Stinger in RW4 annihilator), during that time (Chaos 2 in Challenge Belt) and after that time (Bulldog Breed in S6 against Hypno-disc) were counted out if a wheel on one side broke down. So, why wernt Dominator counted out?
Answer THAT why dont you?
the ref was probably immobolised or its counter didnt work.
So why didnt the judges stop it, instead of calling it boring?
they thought that hypnodisk would continue smashing dominator up.....:proud:
Against Hypno, it actually looked as though Dominators frame was bent, and they were grounding on the floor. Had they actually lost drive, or were they just stuck? Not that theres much difference (the fight shouldve been stopped either way, and I learnt an important lesson about small ground clearance) but Im curious, and if I knew the answer Ive forgotten it.
They were probably hoping someone would feel obliged to make it interesting - I actually thought Dominator stood a chance against Hypno (as proven in a later fight). The same was true of Razers final against Bigger Brother - it dragged on because it was a final, and they didnt want to count a robot out (or perhaps they didnt want to let Razer loose on the house robots again). Interesting to mention the two together, since I always felt that Dominator was a robot that Razer pretty much couldnt beat (its the wrong shape).
Sorry, was someone expecting consistent behaviour from the Robot Wars judges/director? :-)
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Fluppet
I always wanted to see Razer V Dominator, Andrew, as the combination of the latter day Dominators rock hard armour and difficult shape would mean it would be tricky for Razer. However, i would say Razer would most definately beat it either by:
a) somehow getting a grip and putting it in the pit (quite possible)
b) winning a judges decision on aggression
or
c) managing to cruch down on the only flat surface - the wheel arches
Besides, i doubt Doms axe would do much damage to Razers armour.
In the later version the wheel arches meet the side of the frame at a shallow angle (I think they learnt not to leave sticky-out bits on the wheel arches in the fight against Hypno). I dont think it could be gripped there.
Im not convinced that the axe wouldnt go through Razers armour - although it would have to hit it in the right place (and not just bounce off the srimech wings) but there are nice, flat, not very thick bits there to be had; Dominators biggest failing is that its ability to apply its weaponry was always a bit limited. Youre right that Razer might manage to do a grab-and-pit, especially if they could get behind it, though.
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Fluppet
Also, Razer might be able to crush the axe mech.
Also, even if Dominator DID make a hole, would anyone notice it? Razer already has 450 in there.