This is an awesome robot :)
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This is an awesome robot :)
Thanks for the advice guys :) going to have the get the drill out and do some weight saving!
I agree that 3mm alu will get eaten up, but there seems to be plenty of space around the wheels with those chunky hdpe sidings, and they will no doubt get chewed up, but will keep most things out.
I would be tempted to cover the top in hdpe (maybe with a couple of extra little sheets to box in the radio gear and battery underneath the top sheet) and keep the front plates as is with possibly some extra hdpe to wall off the motors from the front plates (just in case)... all depends what you can get away with if your needing to save weight, but maybe changing some of it to hdpe would help with this?
All ready for the champs tomorrow!
Had to resort to removing 2 of the motors to get it in weight but doesn't drive so well anymore :( I have left a motor in opposite corners (like MoBot). Was that the best way to do it? Anyway, here's a video and some pictures:
http://youtu.be/rrqXZT3RL9o
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psqrii91ff.jpg
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psdfcdrdwg.jpg
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...pshase0o7c.jpg
Personally I'd leave the front 2 motors in but that's just my opinion, I've never driven a robot with diagonal drive.
Looks good though and solidly built so could do quite well.
I'd bring some spare bars for the 4 bar lifter though incase they get bent!
Looks awesome, hopefully i can get to the event and get Hatchet working so we can have our fights, is the top still 3mm ali or have you gone for something a little more substantial?
Nope still the same top so you should be able to give me a few battle scars! (I think it's actually 2mm but we won't mention that...)
Well I thought I'd write up a report of the Champs and Yeovil. I hope you're sitting comfortably....
So the day before the event I do my last weigh in. Came in a 14.1 kg, balls. Out come 2 motors which brought me down to 13.5 kg. Needs a redesign already!
Arrive at the event and make it through tech check at 13.57 kg, phew!
And then I'm ready for my first fight:
Loki V Mr Mangle V Hatchet
Mr Mangle managed to crack Hatchet's base plate early on and then knocked me about the arena a fair phew times, also didn't help that I kept bottoming out. I managed to hook him with my lifter but didn't really have the power or traction to carry him to the pit. Luckily he drove to near the pit and I got a lucky shot and got him in :D my first competition fight and my first win! 4 points in the bag.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3401964a.jpg
A few nicks out the side but otherwise working fine. Round 2!
Loki V Nightfury V Diablo
Going in I was worried that if Diablo got a good flip in I could be out in seconds. Luckily Diablo took flipped Nightfury and itself and I was able to push him into the side where he tried to self right again and landed on top of me. I reversed back and used to lifter to turn it on its side and push it against the wall (what the weapon was designed to do!). Diablo tried to self right several times but was unsuccessful and finally counted out. After some pshing around I got beached by the pit and Nightfury shoved me in. 2 points for coming second brings me to 6.
Day 2
Loki V LS4 V Utopia
Utopia pulled out due to damage from DB10 and Rango leaving me to fight the 8 seed on my own. Oh dear. I've seen videos of what this robot can do... I didn't have high hopes. I decided to dive straight at it before it could spin up and tip it over. Unfortunate what I call straight and what the robot called straight were two different things... I missed completely and now had to face a full speed LS4. I took two hits which threw me across the arena but was still working. one more shot and LS4 nearly went out of the arena but landed the right way up. On the fourth hit LS4 went over and I had won for a second time! So happy! 4 more points brought me to 10 points. LS4 managed to crack a bulk head and take some gouges out of the HDPE but other than that was working fine.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psgfca7bnj.jpg
Loki V Hatchet V Binky
Also very scare of Binky, I've seen what it can do it ovens! I found it really difficult to manuovre in this fight, having issues with clearance. Binky eventually took out Hatchet. I tried lifting Binky a few times but didn't have a good hold on him. Then I drove up into the disk... and then said goodbye to my lifter :( after driving around with the lifter sticking out the back like a tail, I managed to reverse in to the pit with 7 seconds to go. I doubt I would have won on a judges decision so it just meant that Binky got 1 more point than if it had gone to the judges. 2 more points for me gives me 12 which was enough to get through to the qualifiers! Although I had to fix my lifter first :/
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps85lryjgo.jpg
The front HDPE scoop had to be hacked away and the Ti scoop made smaller so the lifter would close properly.The bolts had been pulled through the bottom of the box section and the titanium scoop was bent and had a chunk missing. Quick trip to B&Q and some angle grinding and voila, lifter is fixed and ready to take on the next robot, which was...
Loki v Beauty 8
Ahh, the new Beauty being driven by Will Thomas who hadn't lost a fight thus far. I ended the same as all of his fights, I was flipped out in 3 seconds after driving onto the wedge, although I didn't mean to do that... stupid drive problems.
Losers Melee
Last chance to stay in the competition but would have to beat number 7 seed Galactus and Ricochet.It started off with Ricochet pushing me against the wall and the getting perched on top. I managed to drive off but onto Galactus were we both got stuck. After a slow turn Galactus shredded my tyre (and took the heads off of all the screws) and we were both free although I could only go round it circles. After doing some lifter dancing I was pushed into the pit by Ricochet and was out of the competition.
I decided to start sticking the other 2 motors in to have more power and traction for the whiteboards and put my name down for the Annihilator cos you never know, might get selected. Half hour later of putting motors in turns out we've been selected for the Annihilator! Out come those motors!
Annihilator: Loki V Mr Mangle V Explosion V Tiny Toon V No Toy V LS4
3 seeds (1, 6 and 8 ), 2 ex champions, previous annihilator champions... this was going to be tough.
Round 1
LS4 got a hit on the back of Loki which meant to rear armour and pushed the wheels off the floor, we were immobile. Then, 8 seconds later Explosion flips No Toy out of the arena! PHEW!
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psomaoyzob.jpg
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psb1uzi67a.jpg
Round 2
I go straight for LS4 again. After a couple hits he flies off into the path of Mr Mangle and ends up of the arena, we made it through round 2! The hit broke the scoop from the arm and disconnected one of the motor's dean connectors so we cable tied all the connections and the scoop back on and was ready for round 3.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2txji3yr.jpg
Round 3
After a couple close calls with Explosion and nearly going down the pit, Mr Mangle gets a good hit on Explosion and sends it OOTA.
Round 4
Mr Mangle pushes me against the wall and removed my scoop again. I managed the hook him but can't move anywhere so have no choice but to let go. Mr Mangle then gets stuck on the edge of the pit and I give him a shove in. I'm now in the final with the ex UK and Annihilator champions! Double the amount of cable ties and we're ready to go again.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps48ugmesl.jpg
Final
Looking very worse for ware, Loki and Tiny Toon have a push and shove match, after nearly going in the pit twice, Alex out-drives me and nudges me in the pit.
So, I finished in the top 18 robots in the country and came runner up in the annihilator, not bad for a newbie with an untested robot that wouldn't drive straight! I had an amazing time and finally got to put names to faces (and names to usernames!). I can't wait to do it all again next year!
I'll write up Yeovil next. Well done if you got this far, sorry I wrote so much!
Loki was brilliant at the champs, really well built tough machine, sort out the vulnerable top plate ( like seriously, right now because Hatchet 2 won't let you off so easy :proud:) and you'll have a machine that could do very well in the future. Even if it is the size of a small moon.
That's no moon, it's a space station.
It is a cool, unique robot and you did really well, well done!
The first machine from most people are huge. Conker and Tormenta were just plan massive! And Conker 2 was even bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueTwoRobots
Superb first machine and great on the fly fixing after the damage from Binky. Lets see what Loki II can do :-D
A 4 bar lifter featherweight, something very close to my heart :) - brilliantly built, and as people are saying yes your first attempt is always bigger, the original Storm was huge, but as you get more confident everything can be shrunk down. With Storm II now we are literally playing for a mm here and a mm there inside the robot when we're making changes. Mike Lambert who made our latest gearboxes says he has a new-found respect for the robot ! You'll have to take a look at Storm II close up some time, maybe you can work out a way to replicate the way our lifter works ?
Wow thanks for all the comments and support guys, means so much :D
And thanks Ed would love a look inside Storm 2, I've seen the CAD of the arm mechanism, looks complex! I think gears and such are a bit beyond me at the moment but would love to learn.
Quick report on Yeovil.
I stuck the extra motors in to see if that would improve the drive in the arena. I then chose to fight Rango in my first fight. I powered it up in the arena and gave a little test and it sounded very grindy but decided to go with it. It didn't go very well. Drive was terrible and Ellis ran circles around me. He kept asking if I wanted to stop but I thought we'd put on a bit of a show for the audience and kept telling him to hit it. I called it off when the link came out. Got Loki back to the bench and one motor and seized up and another had snapped off from the gear box, that would explain it! Rango also broke one of the limit switches and made a bit of a mess of the HDPE. I stuck 2 new motors in and left the limit switch out so had to work the weapon by eye. Next up was Beauty 8 and Juggernaut.
Man Beauty 8 is fast! After stacking Beauty 8 against the side, it recovered and pushed me about. And then Loki decided to smoke. Pulled Loki out in case it was the lipo but opened it up and the battery was fine but had killed 2 more motors. Poo. I only had one spare left so I stuck that in. For some reason the lifter ESC wasn't working properly, it was being really slow. Tested the actuator on a drive ESC and it worked fine. Swapped Rx and still had the same problem so it's either the TX or ESC, haven't had a chance to investigate yet. Got it back together but went in weaponless to face....
Beauty 8 and Flow
unfortunately Flow's weapon wasn't working either so we were basically pushers against the no. 2 ranking robot. At one point Loki manages to escape the pit (don't ask me how!) after which Flow drove into it. Beauty flips me 360 and the lifter came apart (guess I didn't tighten the nuts enough :/ ). Beauty flips me onto his back, stacks me against the wall and then sends me OOTA.
After running flawlessly at the champs it was a bit disappointing to have so many problems but I guess I should consider myself lucky that it didn't happen at the champs. I had a great day besides that and was great fighting and meeting new roboteers.
Ideas for upgrades and being thought through. Will keep you guys posted :)
Have been playing around with designs for Loki 2: a low pressure pneumatic 4 bar with speed 900 drive and is smaller than the current version ;) . May have stolen ideas from Ziggy....
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psdbd53148.png
Design for the new arm. I'm thinking 5mm 7075 Alu (if I can source some), just want to get people's opinion one whether they think it will be substantial enough or if anyone's got any suggestions/improvements.
7075 ali doesn't like to be welded.
Will it be covered in anything? HDPE or ti or something over the top?
Also, why the s900 drive? It seems pretty pointless nowadays due to the lack of spares.
With a good machine, those motors won't be that vurnable, and wear isn't an issue.
The main thing is shock mounting, to avoid shattered magnets.
Speed 900s can be pulled off but you need to shock mount them as Mario says - they're still extremely powerful motors, but you just need to make sure you keep them out of harm's way because you don't want to be replacing them regularly, if at all if you can help it.
A 4 bar flipper though, that'll be something very cool to see in the featherweight class. To be honest, I'm not sure whether you'd need aluminium for the arm, you could get away with Hardox if you've got a way to work that, but it's up to you of course. Only thing I'd be worried about is that arm taking a side-on hit whilst extended... I don't think that'll be something you'll get around easily, but it's something to bear in mind all the same I suppose!
Don't bother with Speed 900's. They are dead as a drive system given there are no spares. If you want powerful drive then 775's are the next thing on the list. Some 16:1 Banebots with 775's on 18V will pack a punch and not weigh to much either.
What Alex said; the Banebots / 775 combo works very well. You can't weld 7075 at all; it will crack as the welds cool. I would build it with titanium and maybe make it heavier at the front to resist spinner attacks.
Tend to agree with Alex on the 900's. Have them on one of mine and they are really powerful but if one dies that's it. 16:1 Banebots with 775's on 18V look a good way to go (customs charges aside).
Tempted to try Banebot gearboxes with some brushless - probably more a packaging than power advantage (though the esc's are bigger)
Have a hunt around for some 755 motor drills. Found some for Endeavour and they perform brilliantly! There also a lot cheaper than the BB ones (cost me the same amount to buy one BB as it did to buy two of the Makita drills) :)
Quick comment on the arm, would probably be best to make it out of hardox or something similar... if you have the weight! With all those holes you've cad'ed on that drawing, it looks like it should be OK.
Good luck with build, looks very promising :D
Ahh lots to reply to! Thanks for all your views :)
I've already got the 900s so I'll stick with them for now but thanks for the recommendations. What's the best way to shock mount the 900s?
I originally planned for have a Hardox arm but I can't seem to get it underweight so that's why I've opted for ally. 5mm ally arm weights 1071g and 3.3mm Hardox 1724g (if Sketchup calculates the area correctly!). What alloy do people suggest for the arm that will weld well?
And the arm will have HDPE on the front and top.
Another question, is it better to have a QEV directly on the ram and a tube to the buffer, or the buffer directly on the QEV and a tube to the ram? Or does it make little difference?
The QEV can either be on the buffer or the ram. The most important thing being the distance between the them is as short as possible!
I like the look of the arm! Have you designed the rest of the robot? More pictures please
Well if I'm taking requests :P
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...pscd883945.png
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps540d6c82.png
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9ca2c716.png
[Please excuse dodgy CAD]
Looks really cool, I like it :p
One thing I would say, maybe just have hardox on the lip rather than the whole thing, as aluminium/hdpe will go blunt quite quickly and make it hard to get under other robots, while hardox will stay sharp, maybe just have bolt on hardox lips to the rest of the aluminium arm?
The strongest aluminium that can be reliably welded is probably 6061. some people say that 2024 can be welded but the spec sheets don't advise it.
What is the current pneumatic setup?
Just a quick note, something that weighs 1.07kg in 5mm alu would weigh 2.02kg in 3.2mm hardox. So not sure where the error is, but thought I'd mention it!
Nope, CAD is good. I have been trying to design something like that for ages that I am happy with and that looks great. What are the specs?
Good idea for a Hardox lip Andy, thanks :)
Thanks Nick will have a look into that.
Mario I have 12 oz main and buffer paintball tanks, Trev reg, 5/2 way valve, QEV on the ram inlet, 63mm bore, 50mm stroke ram, bungee return, 10 bar. Think that's everything.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...psgv8l1juv.jpg
Tubing will probably be shortened once I make the chassis and get an idea of how everything will fit in. It's 8mm OD Nylon tube. The ram is my current 50mm bore ram (63mm in the post) and will have 12mm OD tubing between QEV and ram.
Ellis... yes... looked at my spreadsheet, turns out that's the mass for 6mm aluminium.... just saved 178g :D not enough for Hardox though :(
Thanks Alex, it's 4 wheel drive, s900s on 5s, 6:1 reduction, 483 x 434 x 140 mm, 15mm HDPE sides, 6mm HDPE top and front. Obviously subject to change if I find out it's lighter than I'm expecting (fingers crossed, although designing to the weight limit has not been a strength of mine :P )
New Loki looks awesome Chris, hopefully the new Hatchet gets the chance to fight it. What's the size like compared to the first one? Bigger or smaller?
63mm bore ram. @8bar is 250 kg force.
Volume of the ram is .155liter. Buffertank size 0.45l or closeby.
A 12oz tank is 15% larger in volume. And it looks like a standard CO2 paintball bottle. Way heavier than needed for LP.
The Trevor can be adapted to be mounted directly on the bottle if you use an on/off valve for the bottle. Saving some weight and space.
I don't see a low pressure relieve device in your setup.
I would go for FP, with a 25mm bore ram. Same force, but a lot smaller and lighter.
With FP you can use a smaller buffertank, or dispence of it.
The only disadvantage of a simple FP setup is that it's single acting, and that you'll need bungees for the return.
The pressure release valve is on the right of the inlet on the solenoid valve and has been tested.
Going full pressure sounds interesting, was going to use bungee return anyway so that's not a problem. Yes it's a standard paintball bottle and weighs 650g, does appear to be a bit overkill now you've said it. My only reservations with FP was sourcing fittings and being a 4 bar the ram needs to be mounted and be able to pivot at both ends (unless someone can figure out a different way it could work).
Sam from what I remember the old Loki was about 490x490x80 (with lots of 20mm HDPE) so new one is taller but slimmer (with a lighter but less beefy chassis)
I think I can find a way to make it work. And fittings, no problem, those I can't source, i make.
This looks like a good set up a few points to think on, the flow is restricted between the QEV and the buffer (pipe diameter) and I can't see a way on your system for venting the buffer after a fight?
Sorry that should read the 'flow is restricted between the QEV and the ram'
I've got 12mm piping to replace the 8mm between the ram and qev, just haven't got round to it yet and there's a ball valve under the pressure gauge on the buffer (you can just see it poking out on the photo).
You've got S900 drive on 4WD, is it belt-driven? I would assume so, but I thought I'd ask!
I'm sure there's some places you can save a bit of weight even if it's just by drilling a few holes in the HDPE or what have you. Failing that, I'd make the arm cheap and easy to snap together from parts, and get a few spares made - Hardox wouldn't bend as readily, but if you don't have the weight for it, you might be able to get away with a disposable arm and some smart driving... As long as you don't let anything hit it side on, I think you'll be alright for the most part!