Brings it on par with Conker 3 in terms of energy :)
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Brings it on par with Conker 3 in terms of energy :)
Hey Dave!
Long time no see indeed! Since I moved back to Brazil work have been slowing my roboteering down... But I work with robots, just not as fun robots ;)Quote:
Hey Eduardo long time no see!
So, catching up from page 77:
When I moved to the UK, I stepped down as RioBotz captain, and now that I am back, my role is more like a consultant / advisor. That time the newer generation stepped up and all I can say is that they did quite an amazing job on Touro Feather!Quote:
The latest Touro Feather spins its 4.3kg drum at 15600 (measured, 16K theoretically).
jeez you really raised the bar there! would love to see some pictures of the latest one if possible? I take it you kept having trouble with the ali drum/s7 teeth combination even though you had the teeth dovetailed into the drum?
The present version doesn't use Aluminum on the drum with S7 teeth, but 304 stainless steel. This was possible only because the whole chassis' design changed, with only two pieces, high optimized and waterjet cutted. With this 304 + S7 + dovetail + tungsten combo all the troubles are gone.
Also there is two new drum options, both single tooth as well but single piece hardened 4340. The difference is in the profile, one being like a snail, with its shape optimized using genetic algorithm in Matlab (yikes!) and the other resembles a mushroom cloud, with the base of the cloud as the tooth.
I don't have any current Touro Feather pictures right now, but will post some asap.
I know you are aware, sadly no more Robogames :(Quote:
would love to come to the states to compete... would want to persuade a few more UK roboteers to join me though... traveling to california this year on holiday... so maybe 2014 could be a good year.
But if you (or any other roboteer) want to compete in Brazil just drop me a line!
Robocore (Brazilian league) competitions are growing a lot, right now it counts with 5 combat classes (1.4kg, 5.5kg, 13.6kg, 27.2kg and 55kg), sumo R/C and Auto, line follow and trekking, also more than 300 competitors. Rules are RFL, but since FRA's are more restrict, there won't be any issues.
Can you imagine, compete in a weekend, and spend the rest of the week relaxing in Rio's beaches?
Cheers,
Eduardo
4.3Kg at 15.6k is crazy! I am surprised it even engages at that speed, but that issue is answered by the next part. I wondered how long it would take a team to turn to the snail and mushroom shapes (Its been done before I know but not as far as I am aware in a drum bot) It must have been difficult getting those kinds of shapes in that length out of a single block of metal without a series CNC machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by evristow
I, and I dare say everyone else, is very keen to see the inside of the new machine. The weight distribution must be very finely balanced to be able to get such a well armoured machine with such a potent weapon.
Though even with the single tooth designs I wonder if it would be to your benefit to try the drum at maybe 2/3rds speed to test the better engagement you would have, and thus more energy transferred. It might make it even better!
EDIT: What is the Rotational Moment of Inertia for the weapon in CAD? I have been compiling a list of different weapons RMI, their shape and speed so that they can be put in some kind of order. All the numbers are relative but it means you can compare one design to another. I just wonder where Touro Feather fits in.
i did consider the snail style drum, but havent really got access to a mill with the exstra axis on to make it possible to machine... so im upgrading from ali/stainless to solid titanium drum with hardox teeth T slot'd in... hopefully it will hold up and not wear too quickly! do you find more success with the snail drum or the mushroom cloud style?
I saw a picture of how the new one is constructed with 2 semi circles creating the outer shape of the robot and supporting the drum at the front and bolted together at the back... real nice! i did consider building 720 in the same way, but i didnt like the thought of having all the internals bolt down onto the base plate rather than an internal bulkhead... too many axe's here, so i had to engineer it with an air gap top and bottom to prevent things getting damaged...
Yeah i saw that robogames has gone... such a shame... and yeah going to rio would be awesome lol id love to come over there at some point depending on costs and persuading someone else to go with...do you live far from the venue? if not id probably ship 720 to you...
Allthough i think team riobots should sign up for next years uk champs and come get some real competition! lol
Not updated this in a while,
Progress on 360s upgrades for next year have started, Ed's offered to take up the task of machining my new grade 5 titanium drum on his CNC, which saves me the time doing it manually if at all its possible lol, meanwhile i've put in some time machining the new Hardox 500 teeth pictured above... same method of attachment on the new drum as the old one as it worked without any flaws... but it takes ages to machine hardox.. theres about 7 hours already gone into those bars and there about half done... no tooth profile, and need cutting down to length etc...
Also, i'm changing the drum axle for more grade 5 ti... as the current one is solid silver steel... weight thats now going into the new drum (going up to 4kg instead of 3kg last year).. The material for the shaft turned up today... pictured below.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...pse414c821.jpg
Also the top and bottom armour will be changed soon for 3mm titanium... as the old top was 3mm stainless which weighed close to 1kg!
More updates soon hopefully, as i'm aiming to get this finished for the end of october.
More done... Thanks to ed for machining and robochallenge for sponsoring the tooling to make it possible... The new grade 5 drums pretty much finished now, just need to tap some m5 threads in it....probably the hardest component to make on any of my robots until now.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...pscb5cd435.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps077df099.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps8b1816df.jpg
Amazing stuff. Stick the teeth in and do some tests, yeah?
Agreed, looks fantastic. Probably the best drum construction I've ever seen. Definitely gonna be one to beat next year, can't wait for test videos!
If that old drum needs a home.... ;)
Looks awesome, well done :)
Looks seriously effective. Going to be a hard bot to beat
Wow... that looks brilliant Dave (As usual) I remember the look on your face when the band saw started cutting at an angle and you thought it had been cut to short! :-P
What are the threads in the end of the cylinder for?
Probably for the endcap, seen on the right in the first two pics.
It was cut too short in the end Alex. Yes the threads are for the end cap. Really pleased with this job, it took a long time we recon about 40 hours cad, sawing, turning and milling. Lets hope its worth it.
How did you make the T shaped groove? Just on a milling machine with a cutter that was wider at the bottom than the top?
End cap to do what? Hold the bearing in place? What's holding it in on the other end?
I milled a normal slot then put a t slot cutter down to get the shape. The slot doesn't go all the way through so no need for a cap at the other end.
Don't know which I'm more scared about, 720's new drum or the prospect of 360 getting upgrades! Very nice work, everything looks so nicely machined!
How much does the new drum and teeth weigh in comparison to the old one?
The cap is there just to stop the teeth sliding out... Not that they can there a press fit anyhow...but... Belts and braces etc..
New drum with teeth is going to be around 800g more then the old one.
Another 800g!? That's very impressive, looking forward to seeing it in action!
drum is finally done complete with hardox teeth.. did a quick test and the engagement and energy seems to of improved... bounced a 2x4 of the roof of the coopers factory which is pretty good going...doesnt look much different to the old one;
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...psbc36869b.jpg
Poped over to grants and had a play with CAD and a 3D printer... made some prototype new front skids from ABS complete with "720" logo;
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps56630b02.jpg
and took a picture of it while i had it in bits next to grants feather which he's building :) lol; http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...psf15f5afb.jpg
now that is really teasing :)
Nice work
Is that an Etek? Seems a bit too heavy/powerful for a FW (but I'm sure they'll pull it off anyway :) )
Its not a featherweight, Dave is having a laugh.
I believe its Beater, the Heavyweight, still hasn't fought to my knowledge. It was going to be at the champs but it broke as it was being put in the car.
Can anyone explain the theory being snail cams too me? Look very interesting and think I have worked it out but want some clarification :)
Build looks amazing though as usual from robochallenge :)
Try asking on an appropriate thread?
Woah, is that really Beta? That's pretty cool if it is!
Have you got any structural updates planned for 720 as well with the drum being more powerful now? Just wondering from the fact that the drum's a bit heavier now and I seem to remember you mentioning on here that it'd spin faster (apologies if I've got my facts wrong!), didn't know if it'd require any alterations to accommodate that or anything?
Only curious is all, and for learning for my own designs in the future... maybe I'm a tad too nosy when it comes to other people's robots!
Oops hahaha! Sorry dave :)
You're getting Beta and Bonk mixed up. Beta info is linked above, Bonk is made by the Emmett lads that are responsible for Mute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventorizon
Something about the colour of that titanium drum just gives 720 a much meaner look, should be a beast in the arena. Will it have its own beanie?
Will need to get back to Drumroll soon (haven't done anything since the champs except pull the guts out) so I can play catch-up and not get humped by Galactus next year :)
Nah no structural improvements needed- its allready super strong... only thing i've done is mill a pocket in the back plate, and change the drum axle to titanium, but that was just to get it in the weight limit. Also the drum is staying at the same speed- its allready the fastest spinning drum in the uk so no point going quicker :p
Jamie- you need to get drumroll back on form for next year mate... Guiltherm is making a new galactus also...i want that drum-off at the next champs :P
Haha, I was half way between the 2! On the upside Sam shouldn't be able to put a massive hole in your drum next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueTwoRobots
LOL I'm so gullible
Will do my best. Needs a new chassis so that will let me start from the ground up. Not gonna go too OTT with the power as I'm happy enough with its offensive capability, focusing on reliability instead. Just want it to still be working long enough to have the drum-off :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy
Attachment 4204Catching up from page 81! (took me a while to figure out when was my last message...)
It did engage at the 15K RPM range, but the most powerful blows were in the 10~12K range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventorizon
Riobotz tested the snail concept, but a minor design mistake made the first version worst than the previous 304 stainless drum + dovetail S7 tooth. They also machined a mushroom drum for Touro (middleweight) that provided quite more bite. Both were done on a 4 axis CNC mill from solid 4340 round stock.
I might go to RioBotz's lab tomorrow, if so I can take some pictures. Anyway I do have a render, see attached.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventorizon
Attachment 4204
Weight distribution is indeed critical, but the layout is pretty much standard.
Indeed that showed to be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventorizon
Got the numbers from Solidworks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventorizon
Standard drum* - mass: 3963g - MOI: 3326864 g/mm²
Snail drum - mass: 3950g - MOI: 3441789 g/mm²
*304 Stainless steel with single dovetail S7 tooth and tungsten counterweight.
Not too far on Brazilian scale, 6 hours driving, it is a continental country after all. But if there are just two or three people we could take a ride on RioBotz bus - way more fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy
The problem is shipping anything to Brazil, our customs are unreliable and slow as a crippled turtle. Definitely not recommended. Also passengers flying to and from Brazil are entitled to 2 70lbs bags plus carry on, hence it is cheaper, faster and safer to bring it with you.
Anyway, or next big event (2014 Winter Challenge) will be next June or August. The date is not 100% defined because we don't want to conflict with the World Cup. You, as everyone else, are more then welcome to join us.
Also there will probably be an event in Miami, early May, usinf the BBIQ arena. Have you heard anything about it?
I am working on that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy
How does Hardox 500 compare to P20 or S7 tool steel on this function? Just curious. Creusabro 8000 might be a good alternativeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy
Good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy
It does looks nice! But will the printed ABS be able to cope with the normal force generated during impact? Touro (mw) broke few "feet" due to fatigue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy
Cheers,
Ed
doesnt seem as hard as p20- not sure about s7, but in both its definatly harder wearing, can take huge impacts and it'll just burr over slightly, where p20 and s7 seems to crack. Its also more then hard enough to damage most robots out there... but as its not a cutting weapon, it doesnt matter if it blunts slightly... but id hate to have a tooth snap off.
and the ABS was suprisingly strong.
Anyhow... just noticed i havnt really looked at 720 since october and the champs are slowly creeping up on me, been very busy over the last 12 months with buying a house, renovating it, building a track car and working silly hours at work... so totally forgotten about the robot... all ive had chance to do really is make some new stainless anti wedge feet for the front;
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps4d96967c.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps922f6487.jpg
they run crazy close to the floor with all the weight of the drum directly above them, cant even get a piece of paper under the fronts there that low. I made 2 sets, one for everyone else, and a special set just for beauty :) ...Against pushy bots ill probably just stick with the nylon front skids though.
unfortunatly this put 720 over weight... so ive got to make a new top pannel from TI... which hopefully ill get around to next weekend, then i plan on going to the robotslive event in march to give it a shake down before a strip down for paint and loctite in time for the champs :)
To be honest, I think everyone was hoping that you'd forget about it a little bit longer and not make it any more dangerous before the champs! Those anti-wedge skids, however nicely machined they are, are definitely going to be a pain for most people, including myself...
Quick question too, how big is 720, dimensions-wise? Whenever I see it on videos at the various championships, it looks rather small but for some reason looks a lot larger whenever you post photos of it on here!
380x270x98 plus the spikey bits, it's one of the smaller robots about.
Track car????
Sounds interesting
Wow, it does sound pretty compact then! Sizes get a bit tough to judge when you've only ever seen the robots on Youtube haha!