Pneumatic

Ok, here are some proposed rule changes to make the offending robot leagel.
These rules apply to all open system robots. Closed system robots use the standard FRA or RFL rules.

Just to kick things of
-- Standard UN modified Soda stream bottles and valves and flow restrictors containing no more than the maximum rated weight of gas.

--The ram must have exhaust ports of XX area so at the normal working extension as assembled in the bot the ports are below the piston and can therefore vent the gas.

--The ram must be locked in the extended position whenever the gas bottle is fitted. It makes no difference if the bottle is full or empty. Apart from when it is in the arena. Or EO designated test area.

--A suitable low pressure blow off device, e.g. vac hose or spring-loaded valve installed at inlet of ram.

--Damage to CO2 bottle as for closed system rules.

--Mounting of CO2 bottle as for closed system rules.

---Electric operated CO2 valve must be spring loaded in off position .


I guess we get to remove the gauges and manual valves from our robot.

Found another proposed rule.

--- I think for safety reasons with this class of pneumatics it would be worth specifying that the bottles must not be self filled (legally I think this is true anyway), but must be in the factory filled state.
This ensures that the burst discs and valve are new and safe, and that the bottle is not being filled while potentially damaged.

what is your definition of a closed system?

Daniel,
What is the supposed problem with Marauder?
Why do we need rule changes to make it legal?

Woody

Here is a link to the thread on our forum where these rules are being discused on page 10;
http://robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=894http://robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=894

If you can be bothered reading through it you will see that the problem with Marauder is that it is apparently over-weight and that a Sydney based robot called Stealth that won a large compition in Melbourne at the start of the year wasnt built within the rules. Its CO2 supply, regulator(if it had one) and valve came from an old soda stream system, the tubing is vacume tubing from a car as is a seperate solenoid operated purge valve. I dont know where the ram came from but the builder has drilled holes into the cylinder close to its maximum extension to exauhst the gas in the ram at full extension. He believes this makes it safe to use parts not rated for the expected pressures because the system will never reach its maximum before venting.
This is what is being refered to as an open system while since Marauder will not vent the gas in the ram imediatly on reaching full extension it is being called a closed system. At least that is how I am interpreting it.

My ram has a small hole in the bottom of the cilinder to vent gas, thats a definition of open system then?

Quote from Robowars Forum.

He was at least weighed in at legal weight with a full tank of gas and as his method of blipping the gas in a very small pulse at the bottle valve the decision which agrees with your calculations based on the number of flips he gets that he was only operating at 100 psi which is the line in the sand where the complex tec rules do not apply

In my opinion a 100 psi relief valve should be fitted in the ram supply line.

--The ram must be locked in the extended position whenever the gas bottle is fitted. It makes no difference if the bottle is full or empty. Apart from when it is in the arena. Or EO designated test area.

Ummmm I can understand this one, but I think it is more easy to have something to lock it down. And if it is Marauder that is the problem, I really dont understand this.


--A suitable low pressure blow off device, e.g. vac hose or spring-loaded valve installed at inlet of ram.

I think this is waste of weight! If you have a ram like most if not all Mario FP rams it has a hole in the bottom. If it were to fire and you had the arm locked down it would bleed out itself along with any extra pressure in the ram. Durrrrr

--Damage to CO2 bottle as for closed system rules.

no brainer... damager CO2 bottle = bad!

--- I think for safety reasons with this class of pneumatics it would be worth specifying that the bottles must not be self filled (legally I think this is true anyway), but must be in the factory filled state.

In theroy this would be good. But when I buy a new tank at the store that is full its rahter expensive! Also, this would mean that you need to bring a ton of tanks to an event. Shoot this idea down!

I dont totally understand the problem here... Marauder has a hole in the bottom of the ram. The second it gets air into the ram it starts to loose it. I would call that an open system, right? I will have to start bugn glen.. :-p


Time for bed.. up to late. ALSO... I put up a new pic of the bot on my profile

The pressure in the system is often not a factor in the failure of pneumatic actuators in robot use. The failure is caused by the speed the piston is moving at when it hits the end stop.

As such, whether the actuator is open to vent gas or not, is not a real factor in the potential failure of the system.

Although the vacuum tubing is potentially a good idea, the burst pressures of such tubing is unpredictable and likely much higher than thought. Standard 6mm nylon tubing is usually good to at least 1500psi and when used with compression fitting will go much higher.

Sodastream type cylinders must not be refilled by the end user. As this is normally stamped on the cylinder or label, you cannot legally refill a sodastream cylinder.

You should only be refilling bottles that are designed to be refilled by the end user.

(Message edited by kane on September 20, 2006)

Leo ......your system falls somewhere in between the 2 .... yours being a restricted to atmosphere open system .....thus not truly open but not on the other hand closed.:crazy: