The future of roboting

ill happily bring every sauce there is! i believe theres every chance that it could one day come back. in its prime it was a massivly popular show, you could buy robotwars games, curtains, bins, pullback toys, remote control house robots, mini arena for the toys and bed sheets to name a few- i've still got mine somewhere:P so surley because it was so sucessful back then if it was to come back it would be again, mabye even more so with how much improved todays robots are it would make for even better tv. and like in the 7th war there was a special event in each episode, the first one could be ady eating his robot:P - would make for interesting t.v .

my 2 cents...

not many people will recognize me as a event organizer, in fact, many of you will not recognize me at all (iv only been to about 5 events (not including ant events) ) but i have in fact hosted a antweight event (r.f.r.c, which stands for richmond fighting robot club) and have many more lined up for the future. the one event i have organized has been quite expensive and hard to organize (thanks to many people for helping me btw!) so i can only imagine what hosting a bigger event will be like. iv only really been active for 2 years but even in that time i have seen the sport we love change dramatically. more of the good ol' boys seem to be turning up less and less and, from my point of view only a limited amount of new blood has come in. over on the ant forum however (robotwars101) we seem to be picking up a lot of new blood and just to show what new blood can mean for the sport: in the 2 years iv been here i have had 10 ants, 2 feathers and a heavy (not to mention various other creations). if every newbie had that amount of robots we would be laughing :)

i have a lot more to say but i suggest you look at the bottom-ish bit of this thread
http://www.robotwars101.org/phpBB/viewt ... 3&start=15

what i suggest is teamwork, we need to get the word out there that we are still alive and kicking, perhaps if the e.o's had a joined event the cost could be shared among them?

im really not to sure about some of this stuff tbh, the money and ressesion part is more of a adult topic (i try to help out but im only 12) what i do know though is that i love robots and im not going down without a fight!

I'd be happy to pay an entry fee to any event I attend, I think that's fair.

I also think that lighter weight classes are a good way to go. They allow full on combat in a smaller space, and therefore reduce costs. Of all the events I've attended recently, I really, really enjoyed the FW Championship in Newcastle. With spinners in play, I think both the roboteers and the audience had a very exciting time, even without the awesome spectacle of the heavys.

Are people going to start building more middleweights? There are only a few around currently, but I think it only takes a few people stepping forward to build one in order for the weight catagory to start to grow...think I'll change my plans and make my planned heavy into a good middleweight instead and get the ball rolling. I know this wont help much in terms of finances ect, but the size differences and ease of transport might be a key point.

I'm wondering if comparisons to TV robot wars is doing us any favours. People come to the events expecting Hypno-Disc to tear people apart, which doesn't happen anymore. On all the flyers for RR events there's pictures of Razer or Pussycat ect, then people turn up and they are not there...I'm wondering if it would be better marketing to distance ourselves a bit more. Go for a fresh, new approach that can bring in audiences maybe?

An advertising campaign might work, but somehow I have the funny feeling that might cost more than it stands to gain. Though while we€™re on the topic of marketing, has anyone done a Vox Populi, yet?

Featherweights are more likely to take off in live events for their low weight, small size and general opportunity to experiment. You can actually create a disposable basic combatant or complex prototype without spending thousands of £s. In many respects, we€™ll never see a category quite like the feathers again. Though one downside for them is, as Jonno has said is size. featherweights in a heavyweight arena are a let down from the audiences perspective - you can€™t see them from a lot of angles. Jonno also stated power as a factor but I€™d argue the increase in weight is more the draw. A heavier machine makes a bigger bang - end of.

On the topic of television, I€™d like to disagree with the thought of having special events between championship fights. In fact, I€™d recommend ditching the €˜full championship event across entire season€™ format in its entirety. I reckon an Extreme style format, where multiple, smaller competitions can be run €˜simultaneously€™, would ultimately better as networks could ultimately decide what competitions would work for television - making changes to the plan rather than an outright rejection of it. Then, once that's aired, make the €˜full championship event across entire season€™ the spin-off series.

Extreme 1 and 2 had much lower ratings in comparison to the main competition series its not a sucsessfull option

I beleive that a series that gives a champion at the end of each episode is more likely to sucseed with a grand champion at the end of the series

I havent been part of the fighting robot community long so iv not seen much of a change.

Im unsure about this part but I was thinking wouldnt it be better if the FRA site was more public friendly? Have a Teams/Robots database, a media page and an events page that doesnt just take you to the forum. Then all the public could be directed to one place to know whats happening in there area and know what robots there likely to see. So we can promote the sport rather than an EO. If we got together and made a promotional video and we all post it online on youtube etc people are going to see it, then if they have a nice up to date, informative and friendly website to go to they will see the sport is still alive.

Id be happy to pay an enterance fee. And if we didnt get prize money or a fancy trophy we could live with that. Let us bring our own sandwiches to events, what would only cost us a few quid each will save you EO's quite a bit of money and time. Get a dozen or so of us roboteers to help set up arena and take arena down and help tidy up etc. If we dont want the sport to die we all have to help.

Im loving all the talk of middleweights, a few of us have been trying to push for middleweight competition. Theres a chance middleweight competition could take off again but theres always the chance it could just be an epic fail, but to give it a chance to take off people are going to have to build middleweight robots. We are basicly starting a middleweight division from scratch so people are going to be thinking, Is it worth the risk?, Is it worth my time effort and money for somthing that may never take off properly?. I think its 100% worth the risk. I would say that with 2 middleweights in my room tho wouldnt I :lol: .



Im tired, Ill probs look at this post tommorow and think what the hell was i on about?, this makes no sence.

Many thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion ALL your input is important.

I think the main point to be repeated is no one wants the robotic movement in the UK to finish.
Both the EO€™s and the Roboteers have confirmed their support to the future success of the fighting robot scene in this country.

The main problem we have could be brought down to one thing, paying audience numbers.
The FRA website could be used to help promote all robot events.
I know Jonno is a past master of show promotion so I wont try to instruct the instructor.

But we as roboteers if the show is in our town could perhaps help like Clive said hand out flyers or sell tickets to people in our social circle work, pub, church, club or family. If they know some of the competitors then their interest in coming would be higher.

Also if it were possible to have a display the Saturday before the show weekend in a prominent location (shopping centre), were Ant weight robots were fighting in a small arena then this would Draw a crowd get the robots noticed some static displays and someone selling tickets to the main event. This would raise interest and perhaps ticket sales.

One thing that has been brought up that dose make some sense is in the past we have kept close ties with the old TV series Robot Wars this served the movement well in the past and I am a greater believer in remembering history and our roots. But it may not be serving us so well commercially now, as most young children that go have not seen much if anything about Robot wars. Perhaps we should make sure the robots in the advertising and show promotion are the robots at the shows.

If none of this works we could always roll out the BIG GUN
Shane Swan in a Darth Vader outfit (There on EBay) handing out fliers and asking the kids €œIs your name Luke€ That€™s got to work :proud:

I think roboteers posting leaflets is a good idea craig. i would like to think that roboteers would do a favour for the good of us all. I would love a Darth Vader outfit but i recon i would scare more kids than make them go wow.

Jonno has done the uk champs again this year off his own back to rescue it as the aim for all of us to be number 1.

I think next year the EO,s should be working together with the same structure of the current uk champs and use all events as a league system with 1 big event run by all partys as the grand finale. Oh how i wish that would happen but as always egos get in the way. just remember its not the impossible now is it.

I called a meeting with the fra weeks ago and asked kane to mail all members to find out a good date. alas only few replied so its been a while getting a date. I have asked kane to name a date and just get on with it. If the fra committee members cant be assed to mail back then they cant be as committed as i thought. there WILL be a date made and if committee members can turn up then so be it. Also if anyone wants to attend then the more the merrier.

We need to move on something and move now. I am fed up with pussy footing around and doing everything all political. Balls to that and lets get on with it and have a meeting. It wont do anyone any harm and it wont be official.

I tells Ya

there is a good future with robots i know it.

I think i should be president

Oh if anyone cant make the meeting then please post views and ideas. Simple see.

did i mention that Envy ootad Iron awe at guildford.

''I think next year the EO,s should be working together with the same structure of the current uk champs and use all events as a league system with 1 big event run by all partys as the grand finale''

I agree

FRA meeting? We need to talk things over even if the committee isn't going to call a meeting soon that doesnt mean we cant talk, Next Sunday (28th June) the Swann Inn Chasetown high street Burntwood (WS7 3XR) anyone who wants to come along is welcome

OK I have stood back on this discussion because I just wanted to see how it pans out - I'm sure everyone has been expecting for me to say something ..........

I have said it many times before - Robot Wars is dead! In any case all direct revenue received from it and the countless repeats amounted to sweet FA for this sport so let's move on. The future - After RW was cancelled it was thought that it would all be dead and buried along with it but here we are over 5 years later still having the same old discussion. This says something for the sport, it's popularity and the people who participate in it - new and old.

So what to do........

Putting bums on seats - Well, that cannot happen by itself and EO's should realise that they must try harder. Promotion is now the key to success and they should try every trick in the book. Try new ideas, get out there personally etc etc. EO's have a lot of money invested in their arenas and putting on an event is ludicrously expensive but EVERYONE is feeling the pinch - not just EO's.

The FRA's role - Lets not forget that we are ALL part of the FRA therefore it is up to ALL OF YOU to take responsibility and promote ourselves and not just leave it to a few people that just happen to be on the Governing Body. Find out about local events and go there (static shows, demonstrations in schools and clubs etc.). Even raising it in conversation at every opportunity goes towards promoting what we do - it does work believe me! There is a lot more interest out there but people are just not aware of the live scene going on since the demise of RW so lets make them aware!

Any other ideas?

i like that team torque thing on your signature karoline!

ty :kiss:

I think the idea of a clearer, more public-friendly website listing events, bot profiles, ect ect is a good idea. It would give us somewhere we can direct people who are interested to, not just this forum that can be a little heavy going at times.
On the antweight forum we always did a spot at Brighton Model World, handing out leaflets with links to the forum ect on them and we have gained a few new competitors in this way, so there is no reason it can't work for the bigger classes too, to gain an audience. Its a very cheap and easy way to get more publicity, we just need someone who is willing to work on it.

I think everything that Karoline and Swanny have just posted has been sound, sensible and bang on target.

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Originally Posted by dgr

I think the idea of a clearer, more public-friendly website listing events, bot profiles, ect ect is a good idea. It would give us somewhere we can direct people who are interested to, not just this forum that can be a little heavy going at times.

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Stu would be able to do this, something like the RR website but with a different purpose. not sure how much spare time he has though and it would cost us, even if we all paid a little bit towards this wouldnt be much, does the FRA have any spare cash from memberships?

Ahhh some good points being made.

Volunteers needed to hand out leaflets in Portsmouth, Maidstone, and Wigan :)
And Reading for Robots Live :)

Excellent rates of no pay.
Long Hours.
Good Voice required.

Unfortunately your right it is not only us Eo's which are suffering, it is the whole world. Ive spoken to a few shows which are on tour and all are experiencing the same struggle.

The RR arena needs two layers of new floor, ( surely youve noticed LOL ) but things like this just cant be done unless the funds are there. Im literally 000's behind financial targets i set myself for 2009, and its certainly not becuase of lack of hard work !!

I'll tell you the hardest thing in this game is opening the shutter door to load the two trucks knowing I am loosing money. That tests your determination to succeed !!! ALL of the EO's have been there and roboteers just dont get it unless youve been there.

I think its a shame politics and comercial decisions get in the way of EO's working together, it will never happen, but it would be fantastic if we could.

I think Stu told me when we were doing the new website, that it wouldnt be difficult for the FRA to link into our website database and keep its own identity, all the info is there why do it again.
Something maybe Kane and Stu could talk about.
I'm sure i could rent it out to the FRA for a small fee :-) LOL


John
Roaming Robots

Just a point on my experience of this, leaflets take a bit of time to to work. Different scenario as I was selling stuff but people need two or three to respond and for it to register.

Fun fairs when they come just pepper the area with posters which are there and give things a bit of time to sink in.

My opinion - get some posters and drive round Portsmouth, Maidstone and Wigan and get them in every news agents window four weeks before hand. All the better if said news agent is near a school.

Andy

not the answer. Been there done that.
The average show 20 to 30 thousand fliers go out. Posters in shops. Plus newspapers. maybe radio if i can blag it for free.

And we get if we're lucky 1000 people.
Fact is we're flogging a dead horse.
Even tried the fair ground posters on the road only to be threatened to be sued by the council. Can't win. :-)

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Originally Posted by roamingrobots

not the answer. Been there done that.
The average show 20 to 30 thousand fliers go out. Posters in shops. Plus newspapers. maybe radio if i can blag it for free.

And we get if we're lucky 1000 people.
Fact is we're flogging a dead horse.
Even tried the fair ground posters on the road only to be threatened to be sued by the council. Can't win. :-)

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Right, in that case can I suggest Portsmouth is an appropriate place to send out a press gang? Send Swanny and Clive out to get people drunk the night before and let them wake up in the queue :rofl:

Just a thought, people are lazy. Rather than handing out a leaflet could you not just sell them a ticket? Not sure if you've got a credit card machine but cash as people may not have the cash on them.

Andy

Like I said I am not about to teach Jonno or any other EO how to promote their shows. :uhoh:
But the things we can do, is if the show is in our area is to try to sell tickets direct to the people who know were roboteers and would probably like to come.
In practice I would imagine the EO would send tickets to us and then you sell them to friends, on the day of the show, you give the EO tickets not sold, and the money for the ones sold.

I think some sort of promotional event in a shopping centre if the owners don€™t mind (give them some free tickets) or were people will be, the weekend before the main event.
The people will have money on them for shopping (and kids to entertain) some static displays of the heavies, and some pay to drive machines (they buy a ticket for the show they get to drive for free.) some ant weights running in the ant weight arena.
And a big screen showing some of the fights of previous shows, with adverts for the next show and saying tickets are available here.
A machine to take peoples cards would be a good idea.
Has this been tried? :D

Yup! We take the mechanoid (and sometimes a heavy on display) and drive around the shopping centre, mainly to get abit of free press. Does attract attention especially when people thinks its a bomb disposal robot!

It is nice to see some serious suggestions being made to try and secure the robot scene.
I have already emailed and phoned my contacts in the Wigan area informing them about the U.K.finals being held there, with promises of at least eight people turning up!
I would love to hand out flyers to work coleagues freinds etc. for an event in my area unfortunately there hasn't been an event in Kings Lynn (Norfolk)for about four years, you can't get people on low incomes to drive hundreds of miles to spend two hours pay for a two hour show. Maybe an event in Norwich, Peterborough or back in Kings Lynn would be successfull. I would certainly help.
Flyers work best if they give the holder a discount. additional discounts for buying next show or all three shows for a weekend event would also increase sales. The public have been brainwashed by the supermarkets to expect money off offers or B.O.G.O.F. it works for them it could work for us.
We could also start a Get Robotwars back on T.V. campagne Inviting all show visitors ( and anybory else ) to sign a petition to be sent to BBC programs director.
If we can get some t.v. coverage the crowds would return.
Steam fairs. I know they pay all expenses to get the steam engines there. Langport and Yeovil (Somerset) steam fair used to host a robot event. That might be a usefull area to investigate. They certainly draw some large crowds. Anyone got any contacts in that area.

Finally Swanny is obviously too shy to tell you, Envy managed to oota Iron-Awe. It was of course Iron-Awe 6 (driven by me). Not Iron-Awe 5 (driven by Robert) When I've learned to drive the pesky thing I'll return the compliment.

Gilbert Team Iron-Awe
P.S. All phone your local Radio stations and tell them where and when you will be competing!!! you might have some local fans that would be interested.

Hey people - lets tell them what we do, add your comments...........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8109163.stm

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This thread is being set up so anyone who runs a robot at events can say how things are and how they see them changing in the future. I know in a recession it is easy to be all doom and gloom but try and keep the posts here as optimistic as you can. Remember there will always be changes to this sport/hobby so lets try and predict how things will be in say 1 2 & 4 years time

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So we've gone round a big circle, hopefully people now know that your two major event organisors are already trying everything in the book to sell tickets. ALthough I now have a couple of new ideas to try.

Back on topic... read above !!!

Thanks Jonno

One thing I thought of for 4 years ahead :idea:

How about a robot league for outside events a sort of all terrain robot wars event, I don€™t know what size of robot would work you decide, but the idea would be instead of armoured plated slugs getting caught on a bit of the arena floor having tank style machines that could whack each other or turn each other over, crush you know the usual stuff. But also be able to go over rough terrain instead, this could be quite easy to set up the events, as you would not require the same type of arena. No lights a, simple sound system and some screening as normal.

The ideas keep coming; you could have water hazards
amphibious machines,
walkers,
tracks,
or rolling devices
even ejectors to get your robot out of a sticky situation.

Think out side of the Robot Wars Box!!!
:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

We are inventors after all :shock: :shock: :idea: :idea: :idea: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

That is a format that has come up before in discussions. I do like the sound of it, im just starting to build a big version of my Omega (built for UK Robotic Games) that i can take up the woods, through fields etc. The problem is that it requires everybody to build new machines, robot numbers are going down and how many teams would be willing to build a new machine for a new format, unless it was for TV of course.

Thanks for the feedback Alan

We could call it Robot Warriors



I was thinking the first type of robot could be the Featherweight class, this way they would not be too expensive to build and they could fight in today€™s arenas as well like The Mighty Seraphim.

I don€™t know but in that class there may be robots that could be adapted to run in an all terrain situation, an all wheel drive pusher with bigger wheels!! :proud: :proud:
Also there is no reason why you couldn€™t run private events in your own back garden, you know get other roboteer friends around for a BBQ, a beer and a few rounds of Robot Warriors.
Should be a good laugh :rofl: :rofl:

i like the sound of that, would be good, didnt roger plant have a off roader of some sort. i seem to remember a vid of it going through mud chucking it everywhere.

Back in 2004 I built a 4WD beach bot for a holiday, 4 big pneumatic wheels acrillic body box section frame and 2 massive 12v batteries, it would run for about an hour and made an impression on the beach I'll dig out my pics

I hate to pour cold water on what at first seems like a good idea but...Rough terrain robots.
Roger plant did indeed build one, complete with on board camera for remote driving. and a paint ball gun to score points against the opponent. Great fun!!!
The problem is how do you get the public to view in safety? and pay up for the privelage.
Rough terrain robots are not cheap to build and would be trying to reach an audience more inclined to go to stock car demolition derbys or off roading and rally events.

Maybe we should all become shareholders in a robotting company so sharing the work load and the profits (or losses) Maybe we should avoid the costs and audiences and just fight among ourselves on any bit of flat ground that we can corden off for a few hours.
I just want to keep on fighting robots.

Thanks for the responses so far :D

The idea is not going to be with out problems to overcome.

What I had in mind was to have the arena space the same (or smaller for just featherweight sizes) as we have now, the same polycarbonate sheets could be used to cordon off the area for the audience watching.

As far as people going to see this type of robot combat it may be different, there maybe more people we just don€™t know until we try. But the robots in this format could use ordinary arenas as well. So retaining our core audience.
The idea is to expand the size of the net because the fish are fewer.

What ever we as a community decide to do I will support.
But if the whole thing goes belly up! Then this format could re-start as a grass routs fighting robot format. Who knows as such it may get even more media coverage than the old format gets now.

We the roboteers can plan together our future and the EO€™s can help in this.
Remember
€If you always do what you€™ve always done,
you always get what you€™ve always got€ :shock:
If your lucky and luck may soon run thin. :uhoh:

There are people who build RC tanks with paintball guns that go at each other in field combat, that wouldn't be a big step away from Craig's idea. They don't really have an audience though, they just do it for the hell of it.

I always liked the idea of a sort of robot wars on water, building model boats with armour and weapons and trying to sink your opponent. Would take a while to sort rules out, but would be fun.

I'm with Gilbert ! I want to fight robots, and get to flip Envy oota every weekend !!

My PERSONAL prediction for in 3 years time......

The whole thing does a full circle, and we end up playing robots in pub carparks !!

Unless something changes.

John

Works for me John name the pub :D

I think the audience numbers will recover a little.
But I do think there is room to move away from the Robot Wars formula to something better, or a better match for the circumstances we now face.
I still think that the featherweight robots will be the preferred size for the medium term 2-4 years and the heavies will become the fossils of the robot world, but i think they will be popular again in say 4 years.
Like I say with all terrain feathers, you can have an event in a back garden with friends and family plus you don€™t have to pay pub prices!!! :D :D :D

How much cost difference is there between running something like the featherweight champs with Robots Live's little arena to running a full heavyweight competition?

Such a shame EO unity will never happen, that would save everyone time, effort and money.

how would people invisage the Eo's working together? I'd be willing to work with any of the other EO's so long as its benificial to the sport
couldnt see how it wouldn't be

id like to know how eo's working together would make a difference.
What are peoples vision for the future there?

I don't think were doing bad at the moment. No real politics involved and everyone is doing there thing.

I think were all doing the same thing heading in the same direction. Roboteers have a good choice of events . So all good.

Hi Jonno
Just some thoughts,
One area were EO€™s could work together is, to arrange the calendar so that there is an even number of events through out the year, and spread as evenly as possible geographically, the south west dose not get much what about Bristol? Also Scotland.
I think we all would like to see the championships spread between the EO€™s so it is not anyone€™s burden. And people can feel freer to go to them.

Also I think it would be good to hear, a united statement of intent regarding the middleweight class, there are several out there so if there is enough people commited to bringing them along to an event. They would know that EO would do all they can to arrange a few fights in the shows. This subject has been a bit of a chicken and egg problem.

Also it would be good in the present environment to get different EO€™s to share best practice with regards to: -

1/ Venue hire negotiations.
2/ Equipment hire arrangements.
3/ Crowd control and general safety issues.
4/ Marketing and promotion techniques.
5/ Arena design and stage effects information.
6/ All the other bits I missed.

I don€™t expect any EO to regard these points too seriously, but you did ask. :D :D

dont know about other people, if their were any sort of mw's comps, i would build one..

Hiya,

Ok some answers

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One area were EO€™s could work together is, to arrange the calendar so that there is an even number of events through out the year, and spread as evenly as possible geographically, the south west dose not get much what about Bristol? Also Scotland.

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I agree that it would be benificial if there was an even spread both time, and location, however at the moment we are quickly running out of suitable venues, and they are booked up well in advance. Ive just about finished organising the 2010 calender already ... ( Yes there is going to be one LOL )

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I think we all would like to see the championships spread between the EO€™s so it is not anyone€™s burden. And people can feel freer to go to them.

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Agree it has mileage, there was some discussion about this last year about the 2009 champs but maybe for 2010 it could happen.

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Also I think it would be good to hear, a united statement of intent regarding the middleweight class, there are several out there so if there is enough people commited to bringing them along to an event. They would know that EO would do all they can to arrange a few fights in the shows. This subject has been a bit of a chicken and egg problem.

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I have been honest, I don't really agree that there is mileage in middle weights...... there are currently about 40 active Heavyweights, I would be willing to add a middle weight fight into the show, but I dont see why we need to start again in another weight.
Unless im mistaken, youd still use bosch 750's, youd still use wotty, or roboteQ, still use Nicads, so wheres the advantage..... just build a heavyweight. :D

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Also it would be good in the present environment to get different EO€™s to share best practice with regards to: -


2/ Equipment hire arrangements. - I think both of us own most equipment apart from Gas,
3/ Crowd control and general safety issues. - FRA Business and is discussed

1/ Venue hire negotiations.
4/ Marketing and promotion techniques.
5/ Arena design and stage effects information.
6/ All the other bits I missed.

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I don€™t expect any EO to regard these points too seriously, but you did ask. [/quote]

I think you have to remember that although in theory it would be good to all work together, the bottom line is that all 4 EOs are in fact commercial competitors. Things like how we negotiate with venues to get the best deal as an example, is up to each individual and there business skills.
Marketing and promotion, I think we both do the same.
Arena design, and stage effects, we each have our own views, and future aiims within our own show.

Im not being negative about what your saying, I'm being practical, and honest. There is a point up to a line which we can work together but once things start getting commercial, its doesnt work. I think as it stands now is about the best it will get.

A wise person once said to me.... Healthy competition is good for any business, as it stops complacency A true statement,

John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.uk