Are LiPo batteries safe for HW robots?

Tony you really seem against lipos...

Just because RMP carnt ship LIPO's doesnt mean we shouldnt use them. From someone with experiance with LIPO's and an FRA technical checker point of view. I think there perfectly viable if used correctly. for the reasons brought up at the FRA meeting. Lipo's have got the worst reputation within the robot scene and im not sure why. Maybe because people have no experiance with them, and fear what they dont understand.

...i bought my lipos from a specialist model shop in london. 2 years ago, and they still stock them now, among with most other decent modelshops.

And as for the rules. laws etc.. you got a mobile phone in your pocket? you better bin that.. its got a lipo in it.. it might explode and take your leg off.. or you using a laptop? bin that to before it blows your typing hands of :)

Robotics isnt the only hobby that uses lipos remember... RC helis and planes smashing into the floor at 100mph + with a lipo mounted right at the front.. ive seen it in person..no 30ft tall flames like some people would like to claim.

If you dont understand lipos. Dont use them. Dont go near them. More for the point of view of saving your wallet then explosions.
If you do research, understand the slight risks and the massive advantages, then yes look into using them.

No not against them was on the site thinking of geting some for Baramot

If your getting some Tony id suggest you go for one of these 3 brands

Thunder Power
Flight Power
Hyperion

There generaly the best.. Theres alot of chinease rubbish out there that isnt worth paying for. What voltage and amphour are you looking for? Got your eye on any chargers/ balancers etc?

Was thinking about the thunderpower but wont be till i have the new heavy done. Need to get some for Baramot as Nicads and NiMh dont like Ev warriors tend to die well went bang at Barnsley. will aske you about charges and so before i get some.

Tony some really good value high spec lipos here if you still need some;

http://robotbirds.com/catalog/images/liposale.html

Hyperion are bringing out a 45C range, most of those bigger 25c packs will do what you need though.

what is the FRA's current stance on LiPo in heavyweights?

Currently not allowed. Big Nipper started testing them in October (not sure if Jonno is letting them run at is with them), they will run them for a year and i guess the FRA will make a decision from then.

havent been asked to allow them as far as I know.


Have they run them, did they work ok ?

They ran them at London Expo in October, no problems.

This is what happens when LiPos go bad...

https://p.twimg.com/AsydCL9CQAEbnTX.jpg

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge

I noticed last year when that Lotus blew up (obvious Li-Po explosion) that they quickly covered up the matter.

Just imagine our pits going up like that Alan, did they say it was the kers unit then ? Only seen it on f1hd. I suppose it will be on the news adhere they have had time to investigate.

From what ive read, the KERS unit was out of the car, and it sparked a fire in the fuel rig area in the garage !!

never mix electricity and Fuel !!!

We will be told in Monaco im sure !

I bet they got through more co2 then us on a weekend !
Do you all notice how often they all keep saying for sure
That's my new saying drives the wife mad, for sure !

Any battery could have done this. LiPos are as safe as any other battery, infact safter than some.

As they confirmed earlier, this was a fuel fire caused by a static charge, NOTHING TO DO WITH LiPo

So, what are the conclusions?
We have Pb, NiCd, NiMH, Lipo, Li-Ion and LiFePo batteries in the pits and the arena. What if there is a sudden burst of smoke, sparks or fire?
How can we tell which type of batteries are burning?
What can we use to fight the problem (CO2, water, Halon, sand, salt)?
Must we worry about poisened gasses in and around the pits?

I would like to have a battery-label on each robot, the right fire-extingishers and a guide on the arena-door with instructions. Has anybody got something like this ready for use?

Hi Marien,

An established document is not available.

Ventilation is important but I do not have any information to suggest that battery fumes pose an immediate danger in an open area. However they should be treated as hazardous materials and suitable PPE should be available including eye protection, face masks and protective gloves.

In the event of a fire, evacuate the immediate area and if safe to do so attempt to tackle the fire. Lithium fires can be difficult to extinguish especially given that they are likely to be contained within the robot. If possible remove the batteries to a safe area (e.g. outside) and away from other flamable materials.

Water extinguishers may pose a risk of electric shock and should not be used.
CO2 is commonly used. Halon is also a possibility but is no longer produced as it is a CFC. Class D extinguishers are suitable for tackling metal fires (Lithium) but are fairly specialist.

I would mainly be concerned with Lithium batteries as experience has shown Pb, NiCd, NiMH can be dealt with in relative safety.

Also the greatest danger is posed during charging and it is essential that rules around use of correct chargers and suitable charging bags (LiPo Bags) are adhered to. Batteries must also be regularly inspected to ensure they are not damaged.

Also do not place batteries within sealed containers as this poses a risk of explosion.

I think mariens idea is.good of the.stickers
lipos should be charged outside of robots in lipo bags
how about any robot that uses lipos will have to pay.a small yearly fee to pay for all the safety equipment
me having shorted many.lipos in my short life has noticed shorting isn't toi bad as they just swell up and then you chuck them
designated lipo areas.would help

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by archie2000

lipos should be charged outside of robots in lipo bags
how about any robot that uses lipos will have to pay.a small yearly fee to pay for all the safety equipment

---

A requirement for lipos to be charged outside of robots and in lipo bags is already in the rules.

Lipo batteries are a perfectly fine power source when treated properly and with respect. I've already paid for the necessary charging and safety equipment to treat my lipos correctly, why should I pay a fee on top of that?

if you have your own.safety stuff.then no fee
if.you.don't then if.a.couple.of.people get together with a.bit of money then.they can go joint

why.so.many.full.stops........

You should have your own lipo sack etc anyway. I would also suggest that someone that has blown many packs and not learned from previous mistakes should not run them

Doesn't this come back to my original point, here's a classic example.

Not being disrespectful, but ...

What if we allow everyone to use hw lipos, What if they become standard like in fws and any Tom dick or Harry uses them.
What if he was doing that in the pits, anyone can make a mistake !! what if we do end up with a fire? to short batteries out I'm assuming, it's in a robot and trying to connect them.
This wouldn't be in a sack.... Bang we have a nasty fire in a crowded pits, in a leisure centre !! Not good in my opinion.

It's the what if scenario I don't like !!! And that's what we base our risk assessments on !

lipo sack inside the robots and to be honest, from the sounds of things, if you are likely to short batteries full stop then you shouldn't really be playing with the big stuff

The battery packs should be fitted with a fuse and connector that prevents that sort of mistake. Any battery could cause injury if it exploded. Of course we need to determine if LiPo is more or less destructive than other battery types.

I've done stupid things with 7,2V NiCd-packs, in the past.
I've seen a mistake with a 15V LiPo-pack in our pits.
I know what to do with NiCd and so on, but am not sure about Li-batteries. I've heard about poisenous gasses and hydrogen coming out of those, or form it because of the wrong firefighting medium. What is true there?
Are there LiPo bags big enough to contain 24 or 36V packs? Should a LiPo-bag be a fixed part of the battery-pack?
How about overheating, even without shortcircuiting or fire? What is worse?

Salt works well on lipo fires... Use co2 to displace oxygen to limit the fire should you get one, then smother it in salt or just let it burn out.

SLA batteries give of more hazardous gasses when ignited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJ-27

why.so.many.full.stops........

---

oh yeah sorry for that its my phones keyboard