You got an answer for everything Frank. :)
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You got an answer for everything Frank. :)
Dont worry Leo, well play nice! :wink:
32455666778h653t541098-27uryvq619w2 right back at ya.
So back on topic...
Hash Scrape Failed.
Watashi wa bored!
Oh, and before I forget, this thread should stay open for other people to get advice and not JUST Timmy, as thats what AJ wanted.
Well, Ive got regenerrated versions of two of my own robots, Knock-Out and Down-Force
Check these out and tell me what I can do:
AUTOISM (Incarnated from Down-Force)
€ WEIGHT: 100KG
€ ARMOUR: 5MM MONOCUQUE HARDOX ON FRONT REAR AND TOP. 4MM ALUMINIUM BORON CARBIDE FOR THE SIDES. WEIGHT REDUCING HOLES ARE DRILLED INTO THE MONOCQUE TO REDUCE WEIGHT
€ SHAPE: BOX WITH SLANTED SIDES AND REAR
€ MOTORS: 2 x LEM 130 AT 46V = 18HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 4 x VULKALON TREADED WHEELS ON TOP AND BOTTOM ALA BIG NIPPER
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 50CM (W) 50CM (H) 25CM
€ COLOUR: BLACK FOR THE BODY, SILVER FOR THE CRUSHING WEAPON AND SCOOP COMBO. NOW, ON TOP, IT HAS THE NAME €˜AUTOISM€™ WRITTEN IN SLIVER
€ WEAPONRY: THE WEAPON FOR THIS IS STILL A BIG NIPPER STYLE CRUSHING/LIFTING ARM, BUT INSTEAD OF CLAWS TO LIFT WITH, IT HAS A SCOOP WITH AN EXTENSION. THE RAZER STYLE CRUSHER HAS BEEN REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH A PAIR OF 3.25MM HARDOX PLIARS, WORKING ON THE SYSTEM AS THE LIFTER AS THE PLIARS ARE PART OF THE LIFTER TO AVOID BEING TORN OUT BY SPINNERS. THE WEAPONS LIFTS AND CRUSHES WITH A FORCE OF 9 TONNES, USING A RAZER-LIKE MECHANISM FOR LIFTING AND CRUSHING! THE NEW CRUSHING WEAPON MEANS THAT IF FLIPPED, THE ROBOT DOESN€™T NEED TO SELF-RIGHT
€ SPEED: 23MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM - 5MM. 4MM HARDOX SPRUNG SKIRTS ON THE SIDES AND REAR MAKE IT A NIGHTMARE TO GET UNDER.
€ STRENGTH: POWER, SPEED AND WEAPONS MAKE IT A TOUGH MACHINE
€ WEAKNESS: WEAK SIDE ARMOUR
KNOCKING-OUT (Incarnated from Knock-Out)
€ WEIGHT: 100KG
€ ARMOUR: 5MM TITANIUM
€ SHAPE: LOW BOX WITH A SPEED BUMP ON TOP TO GIVE THE AXE A PLACE TO REST AND PREVENT FAST ROBOTS SPEEDING OVER THE TOP OF ME
€ MOTORS: 2 x ETEKS AT 46V = 30HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 4 x VULKANISED WHEELS
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 50CM (H) 26CM (W) 50CM
€ COLOUR: THE BODY IS BLACK, AND THE SKIRTS ARE SILVER WITH FLAMES STREAKING OFF
€ WEAPONRY: AN 8KG TERRORHURTZ STYLE AXE, ALL MADE OF HARDOX. THE HEAD IS BLUNTED, AND HAS HARDOX SPIKES ON THE BLADES. IT€™S POWERED BY AN 80MM 1000PSI BORE RAM. 3.6 TONNES OF FORCE AT THE TIPS. TO PROTECT IT AGAINST SPINNERS 3 INCHES OF TITANIUM FOAM IS PUT IN TO PROTECT IT.
€ SPEED: 22MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM-7MM. ON THE REAR AND SIDES ARE SKIRTS MADE OF 8MM HARDOX. THEY ARE BOLTED DOWN THE MIDDLE WITH 1CM HARDOX BOLTS. ON THE FRONT IS A FIXED SKIRT, MADE OF 5MM HARDOX TO GET UNDER THINGS.
€ STRENGTH: DEADLY TO ALL INVERTIBLE ROBOTS.
€ WEAKNESS: EASILY FLIPPED
Tell me what I did right/wrong. What I can do to improve them.
Paul, the biggest improvement you need to make is your dimensions. Please try to revise them.
Lot you need to fix up Paul. Id post it up, but Ive got battles two to write tonight and youd probably just whing about me picking on you...
Just ell me what right/wrong. I wont start moaning - I dont want a repeat of THAT :uhoh:.
Paul, just for reference:
Hannibalito III
(L)35cm x (W)45cm x (H)20cm
That is a real Featherweight not a vapour one.
You come up with a heavyweight vapour of 50x50x26, and you want to shove more motorpower in there than a Fiat 500, a pnumatic weapon, and the bottle(s) to feed them.
That is not realistic.
Leo has hit the gold with that one.
Paul, take our vapourbots dimensions, for example. They would tower over yours. No offense, but you really need to make them bigger.
Paul, this isnt a criticism of your stats but I thought Id say - if you didnt write them all in capitals they would be a lot easier to read :)
--
Mike
http://www.bobblebot.co.ukhttp://www.bobblebot.co.uk *New*
Your stats seem like a reasonable attempt, Paul, so I€™ll have a look€¦
Autoism
Armour on the front, rear and top, but what about the base! Also weight-reducing holes are very handy for spinners to latch on to and rip apart. Also, as others have mentioned, your dimensions should be almost twice as large.
I don€™t quite understand the weapon€¦ you started by saying it was like Big Nipper, then went on to say it€™s a scoop, then went on to saying it was claws. Are the pliers horizontal or vertical? And what do the lifting mechanism and pliers run on? You said a Razer style system but you need to give some more specifics.
5mm ground clearance is pretty low, especially as you have sprung skirts. If you have sprung skirts, up the ground clearance as there is less chance of flippers getting under. Having them sprung also means slightly less manoeuvrability and therefore you will want more clearance.
Knocking-Out
Unless you are intending to make a serious rammer, I don€™t advise using Etek€™s as they take up plenty of weight. I think you just want some standard motors for this thing such as S28-400€™s. Again the dimensions need to be larger. There are a few things that need to be fixed with your weapon - what mechanism does it run on? Also there is no such thing as a 1000psi bore ram. The bore is the diameter of the ram you are using, which you stated as 80mm. What is the stroke (length) of the ram? What gas are you using? How much of this is on board?
Your skirts will be pretty heavy at 8mm thick Hardox. You might want to tone this down slightly. Also why are the skirts bolted on, and where did you find these Hardox bolts?
You also haven€™t give details of batteries in either of the stats. I know a lot of people don€™t include them but they are useful to know. Mike also has a point, the capitals are a bit off-putting. But a good start! :)
AJ, I gotta take my hat off to you. Very good post, and covered everything that Ive been trying to post for 3 days without swearing :proud:
Just to add a bit more to it, I think the biggest issue you have here Paul is that your aiming to high with your designs, your trying to fit the best of everything into a design, without fully understanding each aspect.
You need to occasionally step back and say Hey, why havent I see a real robot with Etek drive, a massive pneumatic hammer and hardox armour? The reason why? Because it cannot be done within the weight limit.
Since youve asked for honest help, Ive draft a set of stats for Knocking Out for you, a set that I believe will easily make it into the weight limit and is still a reasonably competitive design.
Name: Knocking Out
Size (LxWxH): 600 x 600 x 300
Weight: 100KG
Speed: 15MPH
GC: 0mm at the skirts, 10mm under the robot
Drive: 2 x S28-400 Magmotors @ 24v, geared 8:1 onto 4 urethane (Volcalon) coated wheels in a 4WD configuration.
Weapon: The weapon is a Terrorhurtz style axe with a 270 degree swing, via a rack and pinion mechanism. The system uses a 80mm bore, 100mm stroke ram with a working pressure of 250psi (17 BAR), creating 860KG of force @ the ram, the system also has a 2L buffer tank to ensure a fast hammering action. The system is supplied by a 2KG CO2 tank capable of 45 shots @ 250PSI with the remainder shots at reducing pressure.
Chassis/Armour: 4mm Hardox front, sides and back, 4mm titanium top and base plate.
Batteries: 3 x 24v 3600Mah NiCD pack (20 cell packs) producing 24v @ 10.8Amp/Hours
Special Notes: Selfrights via weapon. Shaped like Beta (truncated pyramid). 4 x 3.2mm Hardox 450 skirts which are held on via a bolted rubber hinge.
Id have to CAD it to check that it is 100% in the weight limit, but just making some assumptions of weights it looks fairly close.
Can you check if my adjusted version of Autoism is alright, and if not just say.
AUTOISM
€ WEIGHT: 100KG
€ ARMOUR: 5MM MONOCUQUE HARDOX ON FRONT REAR AND TOP. 4MM ALUMINIUM BORON CARBIDE FOR THE SIDES AND BASE. WEIGHT REDUCING HOLES ARE DRILLED INTO THE MONOCQUE CHASSIS TO REDUCE WEIGHT.
€ SHAPE: BOX WITH POINTED (TRIANGULAR) SIDES AND REAR TO LOWER SPINNER EFFECTIVENESS
€ MOTORS: 2 x LEM 130 AT 46V = 18HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 4 x VULKALON TREADED WHEELS ON TOP AND BOTTOM ALA BIG NIPPER. EACH IS
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 80CM (W) 80CM (H) 25CM
€ COLOUR: BLACK FOR THE BODY, SILVER FOR THE CRUSHING WEAPON AND SCOOP COMBO. NOW, ON TOP, IT HAS THE NAME €˜AUTOISM€™ WRITTEN IN SLIVER
€ WEAPONRY: THE WEAPON FOR THIS IS STILL A BIG NIPPER STYLE CRUSHING/LIFTING ARM, BUT INSTEAD OF CLAWS TO LIFT WITH, IT HAS A SCOOP WITH AN EXTENSION. THE RAZER STYLE CRUSHER HAS BEEN REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH A PAIR OF 3.25MM HARDOX PLIARS, WORKING ON THE SYSTEM AS THE LIFTER AS THE PLIARS ARE PART OF THE LIFTER TO AVOID BEING TORN OUT BY SPINNERS. THE WEAPONS LIFTS AND CRUSHES WITH A FORCE OF 9 TONNES, USING A RAZER-LIKE MECHANISM FOR LIFTING AND CRUSHING! THE NEW CRUSHING WEAPON MEANS THAT IF FLIPPED, THE ROBOT DOESN€™T NEED TO SELF-RIGHT
€ SPEED: 23MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM - 15MM. 4MM HARDOX SPRUNG SKIRTS ON THE SIDES AND REAR MAKE IT A NIGHTMARE TO GET UNDER.
€ STRENGTH: POWER, SPEED AND WEAPONS MAKE IT A TOUGH MACHINE
€ WEAKNESS: WEAK SIDE ARMOUR
Now THATS better, but theres still one thing wrong with it: its not going to be able to crush with a force of 9 tonnes. :proud:
Other than that, it looks competition-ready. :)
As a matter of interest, what was Razers supposed tonnage?
Razers supposed tonage was 9 tonnes at the rear of the pincer, as it works like a set of pliars but reversed. Its the same with me - at the front, its 9 tonnes and at the rear its 3 tonnes.
Only, Ive decided to lower the crushing force to 6 tonnes.
IIRC, Razer was 9tonnes at the ram and around 3tonnes at the tip.
For your hydraulic setup, what size pump, ram and pump motor are you using? Id be interested to know how you calculated the force.
I actually dont understand mechanics, of any sort - gear ratios, battery types, hydraulics, I dont get any of it. So when it came to making Autoism I said, Ill take the same hydraulic system from Razer and put in a Big Nipper style lifter/crusher. To be honest, thats how I got 9 tonnes.
quote:
I actually dont understand mechanics, of any sort - gear ratios, battery types, hydraulics, I dont get any of it
Believe it or not, a lot of us started off like that :P Research and looking at what is used by real bots is where I learnt from. Now its easy to just say the crusher has 10tonnes of force, but its a lot more convincing when you can say that a LEM130 drives a 22L per minute @ 3000psi pump, into an 80mm bore hydraulic ram which generates 10386kgs of force @ the ram. With 1:1 leverage ratio, the tip would have 10tonnes of force... :)
I just cannot see how anyone can say there vapourbot is within the weight limit when they take features from another robot without understanding what is involved in that setup. Taking the setup from Razer could have 15KG of components in it, it could also be 5KG, you just dont know without serious research.
In all honestly, when I write a fanfic battle, 90% of the time, the robot with the most information in the stats will win, simply because I can guage what its potential is better then the other bot.
Force is measured in newtons... so 10 tonnes is 100kNs. :wink: which sounds even more convincing.
Can I just echo what Mike said and ask to write stats in regular lower case and with punctuation? I really dont like to read shouty all caps messages.
Personally, I more or less work entirely on the principle of estimating weights against other robots given a basic knowledge of what things weight. Aaron may moan at it, but particularly if you look at the difference between 80kg bots and 100kg bots you can get a passable idea of what things weight.
Its pretty much common sense that you cant fit in a razer beak AND heavy armour / big chunky tracks / big powerful drive, but similarly, you can guess what you could fit in.
To take one example of mine. My thought process for Black Panther Queen was essentially that I could do the axe robot within 80kg, and I already had pnuematic canisters aboard so to add say a 5kg ram and 15kg worth of flipper is passable, the weight for the rest of the stuff involved can be taken out of other places. Its not the most precise method, but it gives results that are perfectly suited for the beginner of the lazy veteran.
Ive now got a new incarnation of my robot from Team Insanitity. This is the future version of my translational spinner, Grizzly Bear - tell me if you believe something to be right/wrong with this.
GRIZZLY-ER
€ WEIGHT: 100KG
€ ARMOUR: 4MM MONOCUQUE HARDOX
€ SHAPE: CYLINDER
€ MOTORS: 2 x LEM 130 AT 46V = 18HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 4 x VULKALON TREADED WHEELS
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 60CM (W) 60CM (H) 25CM
€ COLOUR: BLUE/BLACK. BLACK FOR THE BODY (BAR INCLUDED) AND THE BLOCKS AT THE END OF THE BAR ARE BLUE
€ WEAPONRY: ONCE A TRANSLATIONAL SPINNER, THIS IS NOW A FULL-BODY SPINNER. THE SHELL WEIGHS 16KG; THE BAR WEIGHS 20KG AGAIN, AND STILL HAS THE 2 x 2KG HARDOX BLOCKS AT THE END, GIVING ME A 40KG SHELL. THE MOTORS ARE 2 x B42-500 60V MAGMOTORS (64HP) GIVING THE SHELL 3000RPM, AND 206KJ OF ENERGY. 3 INCHES OF FOAM IS ADDED FOR PROTECTION.
€ SPEED: 25MPH
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 7MM
€ STRENGTH: DEADLY SPINNER
€ WEAKNESS: IF FLIPPED, IT BEATEN!
Grizzly-er
Loose the caps! The correct spelling is monocoque. The dimensions may be slightly too small to get four large motors in there. You have stated what powers the shell, but what powers the bar? Does the shell have any teeth? You only stated ones for the bar. How much kJ can the bar give out? Does it run in the same or opposite direction as the shell? State the turning circle even though it is self-explanatory. What is the bar made of? What shape is the bar:
----- or /----- ? (If that makes any sense)
I am also concerned about the weight. Try getting a 4mm Hardox shell (you say 16kgs), 2x LEM130 (6kgs), batteries for the drive (~10kgs), four wheels (4kgs), a spinning bar (you say 20kgs), 2x Hardox teeth (you say 2kgs), foam, weapon batteries (~15kgs?) and 2x B42-500 (~20kgs) into the weight limit. This is bearing in mind I probably underestimated the batteries, and I€™m pretty sure you underestimated the weight of the shell.
But I€™m hopeless at weighing vapourbots, and as you can see my rough tally works out as in the weight limit. So wait for someone else to come along to ensure that it is not overweight. :)
The bar IS part of the robot - its welded onto the shell, and it is shaped /------ except it reaches down 10cm off the ground, so the 2 x 2kg Hardox blocks can smash up the opponent from low down.
By the way, the name is spelt that way: I think it looks kind of nice, and its sound SCARY :uhoh:
Thanks for your help anyway AJ, its nice to know that youve got people who like to help you.
(Message edited by paulc on January 12, 2008)
Paul, really, what the hell is the point of having TWO spinners, a bar and a shell at that, that dont work seperately?
Overweight, I say. Needs a revision.
For gods sake. Lose the bloody caps!!! Do you realise how annoying it is to read that?!
Either have the bar or have the shell, but dont have both.
In all fairness, anyone who isnt up on computer lingo and short-speak might be wondering what the hell caps is.
So...
Paul, when you post your stats, can you type them without your Caps Lock button on please. It makes it easier to read sentences (where they start and where they finish) and especially for stats when there are a mix of letters, numbers and abbreviations, its easier to separate them all when it is typed without Caps Lock on.
For example:
€ WEAPONRY: ONCE A TRANSLATIONAL SPINNER, THIS IS NOW A FULL-BODY SPINNER. THE SHELL WEIGHS 16KG; THE BAR WEIGHS 20KG AGAIN, AND STILL HAS THE 2 x 2KG HARDOX BLOCKS AT THE END, GIVING ME A 40KG SHELL. THE MOTORS ARE 2 x B42-500 60V MAGMOTORS (64HP) GIVING THE SHELL 3000RPM, AND 206KJ OF ENERGY. 3 INCHES OF FOAM IS ADDED FOR PROTECTION.
...becomes...
€ WEAPONRY: Once a translational spinner, this is now a full-body spinner. The shell weighs 16kg; the bar weighs 20kg again, and still has the 2 x 2kg hardox blocks at the end, giving me a 40kg shell. The motors are 2 x B42-500 60V Magmotors (64HP) giving the shell 3000rpm, and 206kJ of energy. 3 inches of foam is added for protection.
It also makes the important figures (weapon speed, energy, weights etc) jump out at the reader, which then benefits the tourney organiser if he needs to skim quickly for information about what your design can do, whilst bypassing all the generalised text describing it.
And by all means, type the category (in this case: WEAPONRY) with the Caps Lock on - it helps to indicate the beginning of a new section of a robot.
If you could do that, some people on here might get less annoyed :)
Thanks Paul
I think Paul is referring to the same idea as Mauler, a bar is welded to the shell, making the ends stick out and on some chain blocks of hardox are attached at either end.
As a weapon that is perfectly feasible.
You are however opening a can of worms with regards to balance. If a chain breaks or the bar bends you will get a wobble and possibly self destruct.
Isnt that why a version of Mauler was kicked out the first world championship?
Or am I thinking of another robot
Its that robot, but they were not allowed to compete because the safety of the audience couldnt be garantueed since the robotwars arena wasnt as good as the battlebots arena was.
It was back in the days when there wasnt a plastic fence around the arena to protect people, as it was before the time where OOTAs and huge-power spinners were common place.
Given the sucess from Nitro-Gene in Daves second tournument (2nd place), I decided to take the design of Nitro-Gene and improve it. Improvements include an adjustment in shape, armour and speed. Have a check to see if in changing my robot if its lost its believability.
NITRO-GENE 2.0
€ WEIGHT: 100kg
€ ARMOUR: 4mm Hardox for the body. Holes are drilled into the slanted sides to allow for a 6mm Hardox flipper
€ SHAPE: Low invertible box with pointed sides and rear. At the front is a Storm 2 style wedge to aid in getting underneath other robots.
€ MOTORS: 2 x Eteks at 46V = 30HP
€ LOCOMOTION: 6 Vulkanised Wheels.
€ DIMENSIONS: (L) 80CM (H) 16CM (W) 60CM
€ COLOUR: Black all over with the flipper coloured red.
€ WEAPONRY: A full pressure Nitrogen powered flipper at 1000psi. Using a 3cm long Titanium strip underneath the flipper, and a heavy flipping arm, the flipper runs completely along the ground. The flipper produces 1500kg of force at the tips, allowing me to launch anyone away.
€ SPEED: 19mph
€ GROUND CLEARANCE: 0MM-2CM. At the front, it is completely 0mm. On the unskirted sides/rear, its 2cm.
€ STRENGTH: Pushing power and weaponry.
€ WEAKNESS: High side/rear ground clearance.
Replace the Eteks for some Lems.
Jeez, Paul, you REALLY ought to think about your side/rear ground clearance. That can be mightily exploited. You need skirts, and a really lowered ground clearance.