Ant or Feather

or perhaps up the weight to 13.6/8 kg with a weapon, and max of 12kg for the so called without maybe? you would still get the creativity that way and not upset the so called weaponless machines. your giving people a good incentive to build a robot with a weapon but also not affecting already built/unmodifyable machines.

either way the FRA decides to go i would recommend that a decision is made, the worse thing that can happen is it drags out for ages and leaves us builders in limbo.

not having a dig, its just annoying that i have just spent time and money building a machine which was finished about a week ago to be then told oh btw you might need to fit a weapon to that by other people, we werent all at the uk champs.

(Message edited by ady on September 28, 2007)

(Message edited by ady on September 28, 2007)

This is the first I have heard of this.

If this rule did go through it would 4 of our robots as we dont have the time, money and weight to fit active weapons.

I also think that this would make it harder for new people to get involved.

And no-one has ever called whirlpool boring and the audience notice it due to the lights and other features even though it doesnt have a weapon.

Just my view.

Will

Like I said before I am only passing on what was said at the AGM. Any rule change would have to be agreed by the FRA via a committee vote etc.

Please dont take my above comment to mean that it is set in stone that it will happen.

gary- i havent mate, it just would be nice that when such a rule change is even discussed some of us need to be made aware, im sure the fra throw around allsorts of different ideas and changes, which alot of us probably arnt that interested in or want to know anything about, but i would have thought if it is something big enough to mention at uk champs then it should have a post here.

will,

i would guess the weight would go up as it could then coincide with the americans??? i think, whos feathers are 13 odd kg, dont quote me on this!



(Message edited by ady on September 28, 2007)

i would imagine that the rule wouldnt be a sudden thing there would be warning, but as a ram bot owner i completely understand

im not saying that i know that for definite but just how i would expect it to come out

alex

I have just re-read my post and it does seem a bit agressive.

I was just making my view on this clear and what impact a rule change like this would have.

Can anyone from the FRA shed some light on the situation??

Thanks
Will

Not from the FRA but I do know that such rules first have to be put forward to the FRA governing body, they will then take action from there, which would be a public vote or in a comity meeting where your regional rep will obviously represent your regions views! At this moment in time, nobody has put forward a rule change regarding the weapon issue, and weight to 13.6Kg was voted on but it was voted that there should be no rule change to the weight respectively. Hope this has helped somebody!
Tom

Proposed is a rule giving roboteers 12 months to have an active weapon to compete in main competitions (uk champs, european champs) and stil allow rambots/pushbots in whiteboard competitions.

I think that is througout reasonable, specially if the weightlimit does go up to RFL weight.

I stand corrected!
Tom

Proposed is a rule giving roboteers 12 months to have an active weapon to compete in main competitions (uk champs, european champs) and stil allow rambots/pushbots in whiteboard competitions.

I think that is througout reasonable, specially if the weightlimit does go up to RFL weight

Is a weight limit change being proposed or is only the active weapon rule being proposed?

Well at the AGM there was a majority in favour of at least getting that on the agenda, so i would say yes. But I have not seen the entire agenda.

Both are proposed independently from each other if I remember correctly:
- weight goes up to RFL standard, e.g. 13,6 kilos
- mandatory weapon for featherweights that want to enter championships, not mandatory for whiteboard fighters

Its all open to discussion, just proposals.

From the minutes of the 15th general meeting:

quote:

A proposal was made by your executive that the featherweight class change maximum weight from 12Kg to 13.6Kg, this was rejected on the grounds that there were educational projects already running and could not change.
A further proposal was made to adopt 13.6kg from January 1st 2008 as it was felt this would give adequate time to roboteers and educational projects alike. This was also rejected.
The governing body members decided to defer the subject to a future meeting or automatically in one year.

That meeting was on the 30th of september in 2006.

we need to encourage new builders to learn/build weapon robots as push bot fights r very boring for the audience

the audience always go like woooo when a robot gets flipped 2 foot in the air and when flippers flip out all the robots in the arena is alot better to watch then 15 boxes ramming each other

Hi Craig, Ive made a page just for you at http://windisch.co.uk/robots/howto/fix_a_lego_wheel_to_a_sanyo_motor.htmhttp://windisch.co.uk/robots/howto/f...anyo_motor.htm

Simon

Simon your a STAR many thanks:)

what competitions am i missing when i here all this stuff that loads of rambots fighting together?? i keep hearing it but cant think of a competition in mind that a round is overrun with rambots? and also i heard plenty of cheers when i pushed a spinner down the pit on more than one occasion! its alrite for some people not on a budget or when they already have a spinner or flipper, it makes me laugh that people want rambots banned cos their boring or is it cos of people dont like losing to them? they are boring fighting one on one, but how often is that? if i have to fit an active weapon i will fit a motorised wheel on top of my robot with a mirror and i will use it to try and dazzle the opponents eyes, im sure i can make that fit into my design LOL. i didnt think of it this way..... if you are forced to have an active weapon why not make a joke of it with something really stupid? you weapon doesnt have to be effective just active, that way your robot wont be any different really and still be the same. spinners are my fave but how long would they last when you get spinners on spinners, by the finals the robots would be wrecked.

(Message edited by ADY on September 28, 2007)

(Message edited by ady on September 28, 2007)

we need to look at an audience point of view

and if we want it back on tv there not going to want a bunch of push bots on

if u look at every fight and most competitions push bots dont have a chance

every big fight i c with like 10+ push bots and like 4 weapon bots the weapon bots always win even when getting out numbered

and yes a wheel on top is a active weapon but sorry i think ull still have no chance of winning in a serious competition

push bots dont have a chance? i hope your not speaking on my behalf. i would put my robot in with anything anyday, what came runner up at the european champs?? what came 2nd and 3rd at fw uk champs? what was fw uk champ last year?
i find it amusing that you think i have no chance of winning a serious competition.

who finished 3rd at uk champs, even after coming up against little spinner twice?

the only reason i went out and finished 3rd was becasue 1 wire came loose, i actually thought in a fight earlier on with the uk champ and little spinner, put it this way, i didnt lose.
euro champs wasnt a good event for me as i was having gearbox issues,but whilst it was running ok i still beat robots like hornet 2.

i would stick my robot in with anything, scorpian lem doesnt even bother me to be honest, and yours doesnt either.

im not bragging about who i have beaten as we have all beaten someone at some point, but its wrong for you to say that i cant win a serious competition.

and one other thing mateey, winning aint everything! and back to reality if robot wars came back on tv i will eat my robot.



(Message edited by ady on September 29, 2007)

(Message edited by ady on September 29, 2007)

Twice Winter Tour Feather Weight Champion - Stiff Breeze, which in some ways is harder than the FW Champs - Enough Said!

Mr Stu

i cant even be arsed to argue

but ur making a spinner so i dont understand y ur getting upset?

uv said ur daughters bot is only going in whiteboards...

we will just have to wait for this winter tour although its only rly a few flippers and the rest boxes and then robochallenge

but ofcourse ur going to get boxes into the top 5

weapon robots r out numbered and weapon robots r not always working like ours wernt and its better now then at uk feather champs

but we could do with the weight limit up so people can make weapon robots easier?

o and i would put my bot in with a spinner even if i had a box - theres only a few i rate

you should be worried about flippers as they are the hardest to beat imo

(Message edited by john on September 29, 2007)

While Im no roboteer, Id personally get bored with a load of pushing robots around, may as well just use RC cars :P.

I think weapons add excitement and entertainment, not to mention the fact that having weapons in a small bot encourages more innovative thinking and engineering, which can promote robotic combat throughout.

this is the price list for beauty

2 drills £20
2 wheels £10
leo speedos £36
2 batteries 7.2v £30
co2 bottle £30
1 burket £80
1 ram £80

thats a £286

free ti frame and free plastic which hasnt taken any damage yet and if you want some its all free so just ask

i dont know if you have ever priced up a flipper but as u can see theres not much difference and i no u havent seen beauty in along time but its been very reliable

and im not meaning to have ago but im just typin away

own opinions are allowed and i aint gonna take anything bad but you should just take out everything on me with your new spinner lol

Oh, btw, I have no knowlege of flippers or building them, but I will learn them (I have links in another topic, pretty cool)

i think in some situations, box robots can add a bit to a fight, for example the fights can be slightly one sided but they can still be enjoyable

admittedly a fight with 10 pushers is boring but in my expierence that has never happened to me, its always good to see a mixture

alex

Wouldent mind a free Ti frame..

Nor would i............

you made a good point about spinners etc.... dont always run right,

what happens in a competition enviroment when robots are getting trashed cos they have to have an active weapon and less armour,or cant get reapirs done in time? sometimes its a push getting a wedge sorted for the next round.

(Message edited by ady on September 29, 2007)

i dont know of a competition either thats just full of boxes, yes it boring if it was, but this doesnt happen.

and yes i am moving onto a spinner as i am moving on in experiance,but i will still compete with my wedge for one reason, its competitive my daughters will only appear in whiteboards to gain experiance, shes 8, and putting it straight into a competition is too much for her. once she has experiance then she will enter into main competitions. its funny how we want the boxes around when they are needed for whiteboards? their good enough for the crowd then? i think maybe it comes down to one thing perhaps, people dont like losing to a wedge.

i watched a competition a while back cant remember what it was, but it was overrun with flippers, i only got as far as watching half of it, it works both ways. they key i believe is variety!


yes for a crowd spinners and flippers are great but you need to find a balance, i dont spend money JUST to please someone watching my robot get trashed. their is more to it than that.

(Message edited by ady on September 29, 2007)

theres no free TI frame what is ment is if you can weld it or get it welded we have some bar free

you will need some 2mm or 3 mm plate to weld on corners of which i dont have (do need some)
and remember its not straight its all curved
you need the corners to put a hole in to bolt on plastic

we dont enter white boards when were in a competition - from what i have seen its mainly robots who have gone out early or people who have spare robots and havent entered them into the competition

im not saying get rid of all boxes it would be just nice if more teams were encouraged to build weapons

and about spending money on robots to get trashed.

i believe competitions are when you bring out the best robots and spend abit of money to be able to win and you take the risk of getting trashed by entering them and if u dont want to get trashed then people shouldnt enter as its only like 3 events a year? where spinners are allowed

and thats y there is prize money in most of them now to pay for the damage you take

and we can get ti bar but we cant weld it so you would have to do that yourself . the bar is also bent but that makes the design on beauty look good i think - we also wouldnt want all of them looking like beauty lol

i also dont know which competition that was as i can only think of like 6 flippers/lifters?

at the uk champs there was like 16 push bots and 4 flippers/lifters in a fight and the 4 weapon bots went through

(Message edited by john on September 29, 2007)

(Message edited by john on September 29, 2007)

I counted 17 pushbots, 7 active weapons, 2 I didnt know.

Adrian, if your active weapon robot gets trashed, it was obvoulsy not good enough and its time to build a better one. That is the essence of the sport.

build, fight, break, repair, fight, rebuild.

For me pushbots are just rc cars with added armour. I am not saying pushbots cant win, I am not saying that pushbots are ineffective, what I am saying is that in all weightclasses the featherweight class has by far the most pushbots.

Antweights, raptors, beetleweights all weightclasses lower in weight than feathers, and even though there are pushbots there, there are nowhere near as many, not even percentagewise.

If there is no problem with an excess of featherweight pushbots, why do you think this topic ever came up in the first place?

im not fussed about my robot getting trashed as i know its part of it, but to be honest my robot has ever been far from that, scratches and a few chips and broken bits of polycarb has been the worst anyone has done to it.

i think you always will have pushbots as its good as a first time robot, people move on like i have, but i still believe you need them in competitions

a perfect example, look at the new thread by dan. first robot to gain experiance and look what he is building.

(Message edited by ady on September 29, 2007)

The problem we have is not that there are too many pushbots, it is that there are no spinners. At the present there are few event organisers who can run spinners. I appreciate that event organisers are trying to overcome this and I hope they will succeed. A pushbot vs a spinner makes a very good match. New builders may not want to tackle pneumatic technology; it would be good if they had the option of building spinners.

100% agree with what John Frizell has said.... its like 100% spot on.... Yes we aint seen many spinners due to the new rule changes against feather weight spinners. So only 2 or 3 events this year have been able to run them... and when they finally do run, they may break down fast due to they have not been fully battle tested as theres no where to do it now really...

As a startign point - pushers are the way to go for most Feather Weight Builders....

Some would argue about too many Feather Weight pushers makes shows boring - and i agree most of the time, hence why we add things such as the arena hammer and flipper and jets to liven things up from a spectators view...

But the idea to BAN pushers and say everyone MUST have an active weapon is 100% wrong and im against it....

Im personaly against the weight going from 12kg up to 13.6kg.. but thats my personal view and i cant be assed to get into it... mainly coz im not bothered any more coz i cant be bothered to enter my robot into competitions as im either too busy working at RR events, or busy with Uni work to go to other events.. thought i had a good run 5 days a week for 6 weeks with my feather KX at Haven Holiday Parks. Though thats besides the point....

Yeah everyone has their views, and to be honest i dont know why im getting invovled but main reason im speaking now is that id hate to see some stupid rule that forces robots to have an active weapon because not all roboteers can do that straight away and i feel for them.

But then surely most of them will advance up to a weapon like Adian has done/doing it seems. Even saying advancing to have a weapon is sometimes wrong - Stiff Breeze Kicks ass as a pusher and has beaten the nasty spinners and axes before and so on... is a good example of a great pusher. So hey i dunno...

Just my 2 pence

Mr Stu

Was asked to post this here from Tony Booth:-

It was proposed to change the weight limit for featherweights to 13.6kg. but if the limit was increased the bots would have to have a active weapon. Push Bots could still compete at all competitions but at 12kg . As Ady as all ready said in this thread they take little or no damage. At no time was it said to ban them from championship events or any events.
Hope this helps.
Regards Tony.

to change the weight limit for featherweights to 13.6kg. but if the limit was increased the bots would have to have a active weapon

well that sounds the best option to me

but what if we have a world champs do they all have weapons or are there some hardox boxes ???

(Message edited by jct on October 01, 2007)

Thats one step forward and two steps back as far as rule harmonisation is concerned. The general RFL rules do not state that robots have to have an active weapon. The RFL weight limits have a 2-tier 30lb weight class; open and Sportsman which has been incorporated into the RFL ruleset from the NERC rules - this Sportsman class also puts limits on many aspects of the design including a ban on any wedge that is capable of elevating a flat sided box with ¼€ of ground clearance more than ½ off the floor simply by sliding the wedge under the box when the robot in question is in any €œnormal€ driving positions e.g. with its wheels on the floor.. !!
To ban boxes in this country in the way suggested does nothing for harmonisation IMHO

Does this mean that they have banned flippers, as most of the flippers have a wedge shaped front.