Fame for M2 at last!

Oh ,no plastic chirugy needed then, Just a way to tight outfit.
And Im no sailor moon fan, I just keep track on things.

Coming to Brighton? :)

Anyway.....back to M2XT

The valve has a flow rate equivalent to over twenty 1/2 Burkert type solenoid valves.

Statement from MX2T website ..

The valve is a 1€ BSP ball valve operated by a 25mm bore, 80mm stroke auxiliary ram. The smallest bore at any point in the circuit from the buffer tanks to the piston is 22mm diameter!


Umm ...Perhaps Im missing something here Paul ..( I probably am :)) .... I realise the 1/2 Burkert is 12mm bore and has a Kv of 2 ....making the Cv 2.3 ish ...and the Cv of a 1 hole is summat like 13 ....making the flow rate closer to 5.6 times that of a single 1/2 Burkert valve ... plus of course your 22mm restriction bringing the Cv down even lower to approx 10 ... and therefore making the flow rate even less ?

I may have made a mistake converting Kv to Cv ...It might be 1.7 not 2.3 :)..But the math still doesnt seem to add up.

It would be interesting to do a test with one device and then the other.

And now for something completely different..
quote:

Ian I like the pink armour!
quote:

Paul Pink! thats hardox rust. Talking about pink armour, Ive just ordered a pink Zeobot shell for my daughter, what is it with girls and pink?
Hummm....now back on topic please. :)

RAnts - http://www.featherweights.org/forum

Alan,

Ive based my calcs on the figures published on the valve. The valve is an Italian Bonomi stainless steel ball valve type 703000 with iso pad. It has identical kv performance figures as their 704000 range. The DN25 size is quoted as having a kv of 43 hence my comparisons. I cannot find anything on-line that shows this but I have a hard copy of their catalogue. They do have a UK subsidery in Nuneaton, if this helps as I know you know your way around the internet.

I dont know whether your sums are right or wrong other than CV is 1.17 x kv.

Paul

Dont know much about flow rate calcs but i thought the old M2 was a good enough flipper (Flipped us out at the first Robodome Brighton event) and the only weakness was the armour. But this new one looks and sounds like it will be alot better. Looking forward to meeting it in action.

Ive seen this system of low pressure cylinder opening a high pressure valve during the winter tour and its bugging me as to which robot it was. Judge Shred springs to mind but not sure.

Judge shred uses that system, were using it on Wizard as well (save the cost of 2 burkerts). Most FP systems used it in the early (big Bro, Chaos 2, Steg 2, Thermador ect) days before Burkerts were discovered.

I have uploaded a chart on my profile showing approx Kv values for a given orifice size.

I think I can see what is happening now, your Kv chart is for globe valves. If I remember my apprenticeship correctly as its a long time ago, a globe valve has two 90 degree changes in flow direction. This results in a greater pressure drop hence a lower Kv. My valve is straight through with no changes in flow direction and no intrusions into the flow stream, thus no turbulence hence high flowrate. You can get different Kv figures for similar bored valves depending on the internal finish such as seam welded tube against PTFE lined tube. The Technobots 1 solenoid valve with its similar changes in direction has a Kv of 180 l/m (which matches your chart exactly).

You had started to put doubts in my mind but now I can why there is this difference between your figures and mine.

Paul

The new setup looks great, Best of luck with a great looking new bot Paul:)

I can only say that we are eagerly looking forward to the first runs Paul ! Your machines are often a marvel to behold.

Karoline, you would be amazed at what Mario keeps track off. (Usually at this point the average Dutch roboteer yells I dont wanna know !!...:proud: I wonder... Are the English mentally sturdier ?)

I dont wanna know! :P

Looking great so far.

I did realise that it was for globe valves ....but as yet I cannot find a Kv chart for a straight thru full bore ball valves.

I have a Cv chart for holes of varying dia.
http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/flow.gifhttp://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/flow.gif

I also thought that flow and the cross sectional area of the hole had a linear type relationship...I.E. A 4 bore would flow 4 times as much as a 2 bore seeing as how the cross sectional area is 4 times as much?

Im not sure that I have my facts right and it really matters not... your flow is more than enough to flip an opponent.:)

Thanks for all of the kind comments, 2004 was a poor year roboting wise for us but loads of enthusiasm now what with a new heavy and a few Zeobots as well.

Alan, I found this which gives the Cv for various types of valve including ball valves - http://www.plastomatic.com/calc.htmlhttp://www.plastomatic.com/calc.html

Tah!:)

Paul, would you please tell me what you used for the walls of your ram in M2XT and the wall thickness?

Philip you will have to email Paul as he no longer uses the forum.

Mr Stu

Thanks, Stu.

arialhelvetica>{}}Vote Paul for King!!

Um...spam? :S

Spam? who are you calling spam? Watch it young man, this man likes corned beef. NOT SPAM!!!!

Lambert is retro; he is allowed to spam anywhere he sees fit on this forum because he thinks Spam is a type of pork-based food!:)

Mikes an institution; the laws of the forum do not apply to him as they would to us mortals :proud:

...and on a vaguely relevant note, whats going on with M2XT now? Im aware Paul doesnt attend events due to various reasons (Technobots being among them - obligatory mention of great service I got when I ordered some bits off you guys :)) but the last I read was that the shock absorbing for the flipper had buggered up, was wondering if that had been fixed?

(Message edited by joeychevron on February 09, 2009)

Paul has recently rejoined the FRA Forum after leaving the organisation as a member sometime ago....read into that what you will.
http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=_m2-usershttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/cgi-...file=_m2-users

http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=m2xt-usershttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/cgi-...ile=m2xt-users

(Message edited by woody on February 09, 2009)

(Message edited by woody on February 09, 2009)

Im currently unsure if Paul has or is considering rejoining as a member of the FRA....thus enabling him to attend FRA Events.

Hi Alan, I have indeed rejoined the FRA and have my 2009 membership number and I have cast my vote for Chairman.

That is at least one thing out of the way that was stopping me from attending FRA sanctioned events. Now just to find time to put those finishing touches to M2XT as I am re-thinking it again.

Hi Joey, I did not like M2XT at all when it was tested all those years ago. I have now moved the motors forward to restore the balance but that means it can sit on its backside, but I also have a solution to that. The gas did not dump fast enough to lower the flipper so it now has a home made motorised dump valve. The problem with the flipper ripping open the back end remains a problem with pressures above 20 bar so that is to sort out. I also need to decide whether to keep the variable pressure system. The new gas rules means I have to shed some weight so there is another possible show stopper. Plus I only have one set of NiCds left after my other two sets were stolen from a hotel car park and they are rather tired now due to lack of use.

Mike, how the devil are you? Has it really been nearly 4 years since the last post on this thread, where has the time gone? Hope you sre still enjoying that jet setting life style of yours.

Thanks for the response Paul...hope you get it sorted out someday, would be good to see M2 back on the live circuit :)

quote:

Mikes an institution; the laws of the forum do not apply to him as they would to us mortals :proud:Something needs to be done about this! :wink:

Will be nice to see M2 again paul. And you for that matter :)

Paul, yes it has been that long. Wow, how time flys. Just thought that you and M2 deserved limelight. lol

Jet setting around the world? well, limited world. Middle East and Europe is all. Busy, enjoyable, hot, cold and hungry all within a few weeks is not that good on the body.

Me being an institution? no, needs to be in and instirution I could agree with and so could many others.

But it is very good to see your name once again Paul. You have been sorely missed. We need your sound advice, good humour and beer!

Best regards
Mike.

Institution? More like an entire government lol

Will M2XT or M2 ever come out again soon?

we need Coops back Lambo back (more offen) and the brother grim back then we can finally sort out this mess
you lot fancy a beer?

I have to admit to missing going out to play and seeing everybody. Hobby turned job has certainly spoilt the hobby but not giving up hope of a return, change of tune I know but may be thats part of a mid life crisis? At work on Monday, I looked around at a warm and clean workshop, a shop full of racks and racks of products and M2XT in the corner looking neglected.

Liam, M2 from S7 was scrapped at the metal recycling centre so no return from there.

Craig, a beer sounds good to me.