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Gary Simmons, Ive just read all the posts under this topic for the fifth time, but I still cant understand why I should appoligize to you?
I never said that you had made up the part about the missing chain, that was someone else. The only thing I said was that you shouldnt have accused Gary of lying about it.
In response to Christian: I did use the word apparently about Gary Ss chain spotting. ( :-) ) I meant that only in the sense that Id not spotted it myself and hadnt yet seen it, and nobody had confirmed it. If Im the source of his dissent, then he has my apologies if he feels I was disputing him. I take nothing as read from anyone who only saw TV footage until confirmed by a roboteer, so he shouldnt feel disparaged by my comments.
Ed: Oh dear, here we go again. :-) Id heard the judges say that their was no surface damage, but Id presumed it was a precursor to an internal inspection; guess I overestimated their competence after all!
Everything else seems to follow my impressions from the footage - which presumably means that, for once, the footage wasnt edited to pieces.
Garys said that he was aware of the chain after hed inspected the robot (after, presumably, getting the prize) - Ed, could this have been the source of confusion? Im sure things are very confusing at such an event, and the competitors will each have a slightly biased view just as a result of looking at the fight with the hope of a particular robot winning - although you have the best knowledge of what happened, youre in the worst possible position to be objective about it. Not that it makes a difference to the result, but Id hate this to be the start of ill feeling between the teams.
As for how the judges reached their decision - well, nothing would surprise me after all these years. The most astonishing thing to me about the episode was that JP noticed the drive chain had come off XTs weapon within a minute of it happening (although that didnt seem to be the only problem).
Anyway, I say again that Im sorry Garys win is tempered by such ill feeling, and Im sorry for Ed that - especially since his report confirms my original impression - he was robbed (by the director and the judges, not by Gary). I commend them both for handling the situation so well.
And as Ed says, roll on the World Championships!
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Fluppet
This is getting rediculous, all this fighting over something we cannot change.
I stand by my own opinions, other people have different opinions, maybe if this, that or the other would have happened, the outcome would had been different...it wasnt so stop argueing over it!
Ed, Gary, good fight, it had me entertained. Thank you.
Gary Ss final apologies Christian means I am apologising. Its a bit of English idiom which can be all too easily misread as apologise if one is unaware of it.
I dont know how this phrase came to be, but I assume it is a contraction of various phrases along the lines of I offer my humble apologies.
Chris - this isnt an argument, its a full and frank exchange of views. :-)
Seriously, I think everyone knows the result is what it is, and isnt going to be changed. I happen to be interested both in the minutiae of what happened, and in the psychological study of peoples opinions of the fight.
I think *both* teams deserve some support, respect and sympathy for being in this situation, along with putting on, as you say, a good fight. I dont think, so long as we bear that in mind, theres a problem with people sharing their opinions - I, at least, am interested in hearing them.
But I certainly agree, lets not fight.
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Fluppet
Thanks for setting that straight, Richard. But as English isnt my native language, Im destined to make mistakes.
However, Im man enough to admit that I was wrong! So I apologise to Gary (at least for my two last posts).
Heh, yeah... Andrew Garrad provides the full, I provide the Frank:proud:
o god, i dont know whats worse, disagreements or bad jokes! :)
Bad jokes. Definitely bad jokes:wink:
Frank oughta know...hes seen MY bad jokes ;)
Just saw the episode and for me, the audience boo-ing at the end said it all...
Well hopefully to settle all of your moaning well see storm 2 win the world championships, as i cant see it losing that with Typhoon not competing
Wow yeah, forgot theres still battling to come....
It wouldnt be a robot wars final battle without a little bit of controversy would it?
Weve had people disagreeing with the Pussycat/Chaos 2 battle, complaining that Razers title was a fix, and the many many many many arguments over the Tornado/Razer thing
(one which still isnt over either!)
So its only fitting this Robot Wars ends in controversy too! :)
One question though Frank....does that mean next weeks review is going to be titled: A review of a weird grand final....woot anyway? :proud:
Something along those lines:)
Then Ill be back next week to point that out too! :proud:
jamie you would be surprised, there are some very strong competitors this year in the WC
If Supernova keeps running than it can be a contender but we dont know all the qualifiers yet but Storm 2 does look very strong
I rewatched the final between storm 2 and typhoon 2 and i judged each robots style, control, damage and aggresion and here are the results (Im not being biased to storm 2 just because im a fan of it):
STORM 2
Style 1234
Control1234567
Damage1
Aggression1234567
18 points total
TYPHOON 2
Style12345
Control1234
Damage12345
Aggression1
15 points total
(Out of 10)
i doubt the judges rule in this way.
4 + 7 + 1 + 7 = 19.
Just to be unnecessarily picky :proud:
But Damage counts for double, ( i think )
so
Storm 2 = 19
Typhoon = 20
Very close, but typhoon wins.
Jonno
Typhoon deserved to win coz it had more females in uniform in its fan club!
Tom
People seem to be forgetting that Typhoons weapon stopped working a short time after the restart - normally that counts heavily (and often fatally) against a robot, why not here? Given the fight went to the judges (and the fact that Storm II took only superficial damage), surely that wouldve cost them the fight?
People are forgetting that both Typhoons weapon wasnt working due to overheating and they also lost one of their drive chains out the bottom of their robot.
But if the judges dont see it - it dont count !
Ed
http://www.stormrobot.comhttp://www.stormrobot.com
The judges didnt see that Typhoons weapon had stopped working? Dont tell me that theyre as bad as JP when it comes to spotting things...maybe that can explain all those bad decisions, heh.
Joke aside, a non-working weapon still counts against a robot, especially if it was working earlier on (no matter what caused it to stop).
Does it? Say Pussycat was fighting Diotoir. Pussycat tears into Diotoirs body for the entire fight, but the fir jams up the weapon. Does this mean Diotoir should get some damage points?
...Come to think about it, I think this fight actually happened.
I think that was one of the christmas specials in series 4.
how come the judges didnt spot that chain that came off typhoon before the decision was made?
(possibly the judges dont come into the arena: they just sit there in their places and imagine stuff :0)
The Judges have made a hash of it once again. Storm 2 must be the only robot to definately lose a judges decision it rightfully won(Typhoon), and also to win a decision it should have definately lost (against Mute). Who cares about double double damage points? judging from the way Storm 2 owned the fight, there was only won winner!!
I wondered if that would come up (I saw the Mute fight live, and also thought Mute had it).
Mind you, Razer lost an extreme warriors decision which - Im told - they should have won against Tornado (I dont know the details of the fight, but the judges certainly made mistakes about damage inflicted). Then they (from the judges point of view) won their match against Tornado in Extreme 2 - which they clearly lost, and conceded as much.
Im sure there are others. Ive not trusted the Robot Wars judging panel since the whole Mortis/Recyclops thing. Itd be interesting to get the statistic of all the fights which have gone to the judges, and see how many the community in general agree with...
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Fluppet
what would be interesting is if the judges scoring cards were made public
do you have the score cards gary?
i remember our match with GBH in series 2, us and GBH were able to keep our score cards, i wonder why they wont let roboters take them home any more, they make good trophies
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Carl
http://www.freewebs.com/carls-robot-pagewww.freewebs.com/carls-robot-page
Maybe because the judges scorecards mean squat against the decision of the programmes producer.
Imagine the scene in the production booth. Theyre racking their brains and pacing up and down as the fight is taking place. Decision time, decision time......time for some contraversy.
Thats my tuppence worth
We werent offered the score cards and never thought to ask (we were too busy getting ready for the middleweight contest)
quoteMaybe because the judges scorecards mean squat against the decision of the programmes producer.
Imagine the scene in the production booth. Theyre racking their brains and pacing up and down as the fight is taking place. Decision time, decision time......time for some contraversy./quote
My thought exactly. Ever since the Roadblock/King B fight from the 2nd war, ratings have played a part in judges decisions or house robot activity (which took care of the aformentioned fight. Roadblock was in the PPZ - which meant instant defeat back then - in the clutches of Shunt, and Dead Metal came charging in to knock it free. After all, we cant have the champions dropping out before the grand final, can we?). 3rd and 5th round fights are the most vulnerable (Hypnodisc/101 anyone?), but 2nd round fights have seen plenty of it too (ie. give the weaker robot the decision so the seed gets an easier fight in the 3rd round). Examples from this war include Grim Reaper/Big Nipper (3rd round), Mantis/Kat 3 (2nd round, winner fights seed) and Judge Shred/Mute (3rd round). And of course the whole Mortis pinball incident (the biggest travesty of RW ever IMO) was done purely to set up a grudge match program.
The fact is that as long as we dont know the scoring process or stats (like Battlebots), so-called controversial decisions will always appear to be rigged in favour of whatever (seeds, celebs, crowd favourites, ratings-winners etc.) And as RW is a TV show, ratings/entertainment always comes before sport/competition.
BTW Carl: IIRC, didnt Penetrator lose in the tug-o-war and not in the battles?
no, we had a fight with GBH, i remember the battle we had, it was very close. GBH then went through to win the heat beating Ivinhoe in the final
No, Im pretty sure Penetrator lost in the tug-o-war through lack of traction. It was that rust-coloured box-shaped one (cant remember its name...Tanis or something like that?) that fitted a spike on the front for its battle with GBH that went out in the battles. And it couldnt have been a close fight, as IIRC both GBH fights were one-sided (flipping opponents quickly).
The name youre searching for is Talos
it could of lost in the tug of war, ill have to check with my dad but we did have a fight with GBH in one battle, i remember.
Yeah, Talos - Ive just remembered now but looks like you beat me to it.