Congratulations Typhoon

Typhoons Quilifying match was between us, a flipper(EWE2 I think) and a massive fibreglass robot with a disc (sorry carnt remember its name). Fight started we headed stright for typhoon and hit it before it started to spin up (Lucky us). The disc stopped and typoon wasnt going anywhere fast so we left it and went for the other disc. It got pushed into the side and the disc came off. Typoon moved a few inches and the disc started to spin ever so slightly so we rammed it again. Tried to turn it over but every time we went under it we slid to one side. Gary said that the inside was spinning instead of the disc after the fight. We the drove to the other side of the arena where both back wheels jammed up (1st and only time since) and we came to a stop. The flipper then got under typhoon and turned it over and was the last one running.

All 4 robots got through to the wars.

Another interesting point is that the MASSIVE fibreglass robot was orginially not allowed to run as it was 5cm over the width limit. In the pits they got an hacksaw and cut it down to size :).

Ian, Im sure you were the flipper. Only one to flip typhoon. Can you confirm this?

Oh and well done Typhoon and Storm II for one of the best finals Ive seen.

raging reality has flipped us in the past and the fibre glass robot was called araknia

Julian - this is where Im back to my list of whacky how to beat Typhoon ideas. I think spikes are asking for trouble - even if youre not impacted by the teeth, Typhoon will have a lot of inertia; you may gash the shell but youd probably lose the teeth too. Not sure how thick the shell is above the ring, but Im guessing its sturdy enough that slicing it away isnt going to work. Something enormous, like Kan-Openers jaws, could disable it - but even then the jaws were damaged, and its not clear that T2 would have been unable to spin, given the chance.

Unfortunately, it appears that my suggestion of rolling along the outside of T2 and shoving them into a wall (or pit, or CPZ) isnt going to work if the director allows them to spin up again afterwards. :-(

As for an extended flipper - something like T-minuss extension for use against Hazard? Itd have to be extremely strong to lift a heavy as a cantilever, and since T2s teeth are so low to the ground its hard to avoid being clipped - although a bit of chamfering might help.

On the other hand, any wedge which *does* get under without sustaining too much damage has the benefit that as T2 tilts (not that it will, much, with the gyroscopic effect) its teeth will hit the arena floor and fling it sideways. A hard bash from above might be interesting from this point of view.

It does seem that the best approach is just to be built very solidly and never let them spin up, though (then pit them or feed them to the house robots, rather than trying to break them - theyve got unusually good armour even when stationary) - and thats hardly news when it comes to fighting spinners. Still not quite clear why Ed felt Storm could afford to pick its moment to attack and let T2 spin up - regardless of the solidity of the robots, this approach means T2s attack is concentrated by the teeth, which cant be a good thing (unless the idea was that T2 could put more energy into itself than Storm could). The panel which came off did get a ding on the corner from T2 (corners not good against spinners), which implies to me a problem with the strategy.

If team Storm ever manage to build a hydraulic crusher into *this* robots removable weapon bay, that would stand an interesting chance - stop the spin with the base, then chew (although its not really the shape for it). Doubt Razer would have stood a chance, though. If Storms lifter gets extended that would have made all the difference, so I suspect thats a more likely development route if Ed wants to be more sure of a win next time.

Gary should, of course, be complimented that Im spending all this time trying to find a way to defeat that particular robot (and class of robots). To be fair to Ed, Im almost as concerned about how to beat Storm 2, although a very low flipper with automated activation when somethings over it would seem a good start.

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Fluppet

andrew i am very complemented that you are taking the time to come up with ideas to defeat little ol me. although just a small note, we doubled the titanium on the shell after the kan opener incident and even that didnt get through our second shell underneath. It would be interesting to see the ideas that you came up with if you were able to crawl around the inards of typhoon 2 so to speak. Im glad that there are new people who are starting to build and have so many ideas because if theres one thing that this sport can never have enough of, its people with gd imagination.

I think the way to beat Typhoon would be with an undercutter type spinner design. With the majority of robots in RW not having skirts this could be a very effective weapon, if not slightly dull. (chop bottom of wheels - robot stops moving - you win, obviously its never as simple as this though). Id be interested to know if Storm could fit in a weapon like this.

Mark

I dont think an axe or vertical crusher would be useful against Typhoon because of its shape. Id expect those kind of weapons to just slide down it than do any real damage.

Might I say something,

well done to Gary for his driving, and think about it, Typhoon could have been counted out in round 1 if URO didnt break down first.

The undercutter weapon that Mark mentions has certainly been successful in the past. Note the fight between Ziggo - also a FBS and Code:BLACK. Certainly a surprise.

Bigger Brother also managed to flip Typhoon in the first round, probably thanking all possible dieties that it didnt spin up in the melee!!

Im not sure a flipper, even if it did get under Typhoon, would be helpful, due to the gyroscopic effect of the spinner keeping it from being turned over. A powerful one may lift it into the air, but it should stay mainly upright...
Hypnodisc showed a similar effect in its fights with Bulldog Breed...any other robot wouldve rolled a few times with the force BB applied to it, but Hypno stayed upright! :)

And even when stopped, its STILL hard to flip, due to its shape, as Storm 2 demonstrated!

So thats one top class robot all round, well done to all envolved with our first Spinner champion! :)

(The problem with writing long posts while trying to look like youre doing work is that other people post while youre doing so... :-) )

Mark: I was also wondering about that. The thing is, I suspect youd need a lot of reach on a heavyweight, Typhoon has *very* low teeth, and I suspect a very low spinner is inherently problemmatic on a wooden floor (itd skim over the metal floor of the battlebox, but dig in to the arena). Be interesting to see someone try it. Making the wheels hop over the blade (so the reach can be longer) wouldnt be too difficult (for a new robot, not for Storm), and might be a crowd pleaser. Making a blade able to get under Typhoon while strong enough to take out the wheels and survive glancing blows from the teeth would be an interesting challenge! Obviously it wouldnt work so well against robots with solid enough wheels...

The same challenges apply to a very low profile flipper (for which I have a design from which Ill spare you until Ive built it). Such a flipper is less useful against other designs, though, so Im not keen on the idea.

Frank: yes, a crusher would have to pin Typhoon and rely on the point force being enough to get a grip. Its certainly not a foregone conclusion; Id have thought the slope on T2 is shallow enough for this still to work, but I may be wrong, and its hard to tell the exact slope from the TV footage.

Mr Dave: Quite, Typhoon would have been out in the first round if Ian Watts hadnt decided to be sporting. Arent we a nice community that things worked out as they did. :-) (Mind you, there are a lot of robots which would win if only.)

Gary: Glad youre taking it the right way, and well said about encouraging innovation. I would, of course, *love* to poke around inside T2. :-) (Mind you, Id feel obliged also to tell you all my thoughts, which would mean you could counter them... its like chess, with arc welding. Pity Im not *better* at chess, really.) Id still really like to know what T2s shock proofing is - not so I can attack it, but so I can learn from it! Ill be peering at the brief TV footage of T2s innards with interest, as soon as I find time.

Wacky idea number 47: wonder if a really long-armed clamp bot would work. Grip T2 within a second of activate, and attack properly later, while youve stopped it spinning. (Thinking of the hands on the end of extending lattices which are popular in cartoons.) Hmm. :-)

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Fluppet

err, gary, are any girls in you squadron single cos they like preety fit!! :0P

Sorry Andrew...Ill wait until Im sure youre finished next time! :proud:

Check the original Robot Wars forum. There is a huge thread about how to beat Blendo.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/...twars&msg=19.1

Paul - my timekeeping is legendary. No offence taken. Dont start waiting for me, Battlebots will restart first!

Mc_blue, oh *original* original! Interesting, although they didnt seem to come up with all that many ideas in the end (and missed the low-level spinner). I like the Y-fork concept, although its not so hard to work around. I particularly like the enter it in a Mentorn event section. :-)

Unlike them, just because Im thinking about it doesnt mean I expect to win...

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Fluppet

Quite a lot belatedly (my wit is quicker than this, but my memory isnt what it should be), Julian: Storm would have won if titanium wasnt such a pig to weld.

How much is a PIG welder?

(Runs and hides.)

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Fluppet

It is interesting though. Blendo had such an advantage over the other machines for example they were allowed to spin up before the start of the fight. This is why it did not even win one single fight in Battlebots - back in the days they used to start it with a drill - by the start of the fight it was already up to a high speed.

Although how much power did Blendo have in relation to modern FBSs like Typhoon? Apparentely it spun over 500 RPM was 1.5 metres in diameter and weighed 150 pounds (total robot mass)

Andrew - I only pointed out the thread on the RW Forum as I thought that it was good reading. ;) In addition, take into consideration that these posts were made back in 1998 when FBS were not commonplace. It is very interesting in some respects especially the American competitors opinions of the Mentorn events :P

Mark,

Yes its true...Believe it or not EWE2 was the last robot to beat typhoon in competition.

From what i remember of the qualifying fight there was your Big Nipper with serious traction problems (Hence the nice new wheels) You did slam us into the wall early in the fight but then got stuck.

I cant remember what happened to the other competitor, but that left EWE2 and Typhoon. Gary was doing his running away trick again trying to spin up. But they had the throttle/choke wired up wrong or something, and kept choking out the petrol engine. So it span for a while then died, and never really got up to full speed.

We caught up with typhoon eventually and flipped them over..winning the fight! :)

My moment of glory and its not even on film:sad:

Ian

dont worry ian i wont forget it :)

watching for a second year losing the qualifying and thinking that that was it.

im sure you flipped araknia and their wooden blade came off.

Carl there are a few single at the moment although at least 2 in the audience are taken, one of them being my gf :)

the angle on the cone is 45 deg

mc_blue, we have a 50kg disc with at least 75% of the weight at the edge, 1m wide and spins at 900 rpm (the current gearing means it can go to 1200rpm but we hadnt balanced the disc well enough). Even so we can deliver around the 40kj mark we reakon.

andrew i do actually quite enjoy the wacky ideas that you along with others come up with. The shock proofing isnt really anything special however most of the features can easily be seen from the chassis shot in the interview, u just gotta know what your looking for :)

Thank you Gary. :-) Ill get my video out.

By the way, someone from work (whod expressed a half interest in helping with a build) just came up to me to say hed seen the final. Whether it has inspired him or just scared him Ive yet to determine... At least youve kept one fan (less devoted than myself) interested!

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Fluppet

ohhhhhhhhhh lol :0P

Garry, can you please stop smashing the arena...its not Mammoth so what has it done to you?

well u see at times stuart typhoon got lonely without mammoth and so it was trying to smash its way out to see mammoth however the production crew and especially derek (typhoon is scared of derek) didnt let typhoon out. :)

poor typhoon :0P

Well we did offer to go and act as Special Guest Refbot but they thought youd object

we have a 50kg disc with at least 75% of the weight at the edge, 1m wide and spins at 900 rpm (the current gearing means it can go to 1200rpm but we hadnt balanced the disc well enough). Even so we can deliver around the 40kj mark we reakon.

My ruff maths only puts Typhoon at 25-27KJ
not far off the maths I worked out for my cage spinner (work robot that never got finished)

no doubt is good i just thought 40kj was a tad high

Too high - you mean too low.
50kg with 75% at diameter, and remainder evenly distributed towards centre generates 49kj (at 900rpm)

Most impressive, and congratulations

Roger.

http://www.teamcosmos.com/ke/ke.shtmlwww.teamcosmos.com/ke/ke.shtml

I got 25.556KJ
its alot higher if you dont use the right calculation
if u use 1/2 mass times velocity squared you do get somewhere close to 50KJ
the site uses the proper calculations

i think storm 2 was totally and utterly robbed. i watched the final in my pub with 8 people and i had a bet with them knowing the result.... at the end of the fight they all voted storm 2. good robot and all that gary but i think you were very lucky to get that result.

i know we were shane but then personnally i think that the fight was very good.

craig we have had our own calculations confirmed by many top engineers and physicists to put the figure at 40kj, the only problem is that you would have to work it out for each individual part and so you would have to get a good rumage around to get an accurate calculation although im slightly bewildered at the interest that people have shown towards T2.

afterall, why should anyone show any interest to a championship winning, full body spinning, precision-machined-by-a-defence-company robot? :-p

The spike need not puncture Typhoon. It just needs to be able to push it about. Two spikes and you could have a go at slamming it into something else.

Im looking more at the middleweight. We almost gave Gary a fright at Extreme 2 because we could slam the front armour in above the cutters. Sometimes the lowest ground clearance isnt the best.

I was stupid in putting an unfinished robot up against Typhoon. The original Broadsword, whilst having a lot less power, would have at least got into the next round. It was (just) a heavy so removing the unnecessary top armour would have got me in. Its all a learning experience, I suppose.

2 things

ti is a pig to weld, but the ti was bolted on and it was the steel spaceframe weld that failed :)

secondly, seen no denial of the conspiricy theories so by that Im assuming all 5 are correct?

lol, i just decided to stay right out of the conspiracy theories although perhaps the one about me being a master tactitian is correct............ ;)

I think thats the closest well get on those then, although Ed is yet to deny popping off John F..... hummmm.....

Anyone else notice the lack of speed in Storm II during this fight then?
Thatll be Ed swapping a battery pack for the heavier side armour then..
Probably a mistake considering the complete lack of side impacts from Typhoon as far as I can remember.. the extra speed/push would have served him much better..

Anyway.. was a great fight, though I thought Storm II won at the time, and the footage did nothing to change my opinion.

Perhaps RW didnt want to see a push bot winning for the second year running?
Hmmmmmm.....

:)
Sam

Or mayb

We were only running 6mm side armour during the Typhoon fight rather than the full 12mm that we could have been running. We were happy that we could control the fight, and control where they hit us.

Lol, given how fast Storm II is with 100Kg of robot in front of it, do you really think that 3.5Kg of armour on the sides is going to affect how fast it goes :P

Meh.... ahh well - well have to have a grudge match against them :)

Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com

I was under the impression you had to take a battery pack out in order to put the heavier armour on, it was more that I was suggesting effected the speed.
Apologise if Im misinformed on that.
Why was Storm II so slow then, youre not telling me it was running at full whack surely?

What you need is a decent set of judges eh!

Sam

Tactical call Sam - read the long post we put on somewhere above.

Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com

Im gonna start calling you Tony me thinks :)

Sam