Love it. It looks very good though I would definitely look at making a custom dustpan further down the line. ;)
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Love it. It looks very good though I would definitely look at making a custom dustpan further down the line. ;)
No need for that! You've already established that any concerns with the current dustpan setup can solved by simply adding MORE DUSTPANS.
Great progress again, the end result looks like some really nice accurate work!
How much ground clearance do you have? If you're aiming for Robodojo, the floor is made of panels that don't always line up 100% prevent perfectly and the pit is usually dropped 20mm as an obstacle, so it's worth having 10-20mm clearance most of the way around to avoid getting snagged on something. Don't want to do a Cobalt!
+1 for more dustpans! Got this image of a regal toaster floating into the arena on a magic dustpan-carpet...
its a a shame on the ground clearance issues though, I suppose the ‘simple’ option is bigger wheels, but then you need to know if they will fit in the room you have, is there any adjustments in the motor mounts?
Looking good! I see your using slim tyres for your tread, perhaps look at mountain bike tyres with the knobbly bits on it as this will give you about 8mm thickness.
The mounts, should you need them lowering can be done easily. I think you have about 10mm to play with if you chop them down.
you will need a 7.9mm Drill bit (8mm would be ok). Bolt the mounts together so they remain concentric to each other. Unscrew the inserts using a hex key, then put the drill bit down the hole then start drilling it out. The holes are taken down to about 23mm so bear that in mind if you drill down to a depth. Then chop off the flat to your height required and reinsert the inserts.
Any assistance, let me know :-)
Looking good, loving the dustpan combo. Best of luck getting it finished! My only concern...
Is this a temporary thing or not? The amount of torque that goes through a drill motor/wheel on a featherweight is pretty substantial (especially when pushing another robot) so will easily chew things like electrical tape up if that's used as a means of transmitting rotation from the drill shaft to the wheel. You'll need something more substantial I'm afraid to be able to transmit the torque, otherwise you'll be fighting a constant battle in the pits trying to sort the wheels out.Quote:
the wheels slipping on the electrical tape holding them on to the drill shaft
Ah, I missed this in the speed read of the post from last night (thanks Jamie)...
As noted, the tape will be chewed up pretty quickly. I would drill a hole through the bolt that your wheel is on and the hub of the wheel (I see you are using the same type of wheel as Azriel is) and then put a bolt through that to make it all secure. The bolts on the dustpan, countersunk bolts perhaps? Once those two are done, give it a retest and see what that does for you.Quote:
I connected the wiring up to a drill battery and took it outside to see if it would run, which it sadly didn't. Seems to be a combination of the wheels slipping on the electrical tape holding them on to the drill shaft, bolts under the dustpans making it too front heavy and catching on the floor, plus the wheels still not having enough ground clearance even with the tyre.
Alternatively, for the wheel issue, where you have that washer on the outside of the wheel, get a bigger diameter washer, drill two holes in that and the wheel and bolt them together like that?
Thanks all for your feedback and dustpan enthusiasm!
On the ground clearance front, I've probably got 3-5mm from the base, although the screw heads probably need to be countersunk, so that probably takes away a mil or two. I've thankfully only got a few screws holding it together at the moment, so shouldn't be too bad to do that.
I considered asking for the mounts to be adjusted when I ordered them from Nat, but trusted my measurements as I wanted minimal ground clearance. With the information from Sam about the Robodojo floor, I would have probably planned differently. I'll probably only cut the mounts down if I really have to, even if it is just a matter of pride at this point haha. (Thanks for the advice though, Nat. I'll definitely bear it in mind).
I've found some 120mm trolley wheels on Ebay, which should give me 10mm clearance. They are hopefully arriving this week. There isn't much room above, so I will have to either cut out a wheel arch in to the top HDPE panels on the bandsaw, or just make new top panels out of the 10mm Polycarb I have. Either one shouldn't be too much effort.Quote:
I suppose the ‘simple’ option is bigger wheels, but then you need to know if they will fit in the room you have, is there any adjustments in the motor mounts?
I would say yes, because it was just a quick fix to get a rough drive test in before it went dark. At the same time though, I didn't have any better options, so also no :lol:.Quote:
Is this a temporary thing or not?
That makes a lot of sense! The bolt holding it in at the moment is the reverse thread bolt from the drill chuck, would that be secure enough to drill in to, or would you drill through the drill shaft it is screwed in to as well? I imagine the holding pin/bolt would have to be quite thin, so would it stand up to impact well?Quote:
I would drill a hole through the bolt that your wheel is on and the hub of the wheel (I see you are using the same type of wheel as Azriel is) and then put a bolt through that to make it all secure.
Definitely a possibility. I'll likely look at a combination of both, make sure it is extra secure. Cheers!Quote:
Alternatively, for the wheel issue, where you have that washer on the outside of the wheel, get a bigger diameter washer, drill two holes in that and the wheel and bolt them together like that?
I think I know what the plan is for the dustpan already. The metal is relatively quite thin, so countersinking isn't an option. When I started, I was torn between either using nuts, bolts and washers to secure it or to put a small block of HDPE in the back wall of the pan before screwing through that with wood screws to spread the surface area. Wood screws would sit flatter than bolts, so I think that is the option I'm going to try next.Quote:
The bolts on the dustpan, countersunk bolts perhaps? Once those two are done, give it a retest and see what that does for you.
gosh darn it, i was planning not to go but see this it would be wrong not to have a sportman hammer bot XD
If you put a bolt/pin through the hub of the wheel and the drill motor shaft, you won't need the reverse thread screw, as the bolt/pin will prevent lateral movement and there's no risk of the wheel unscrewing, which are the main things the reverse thread screws are there for.Quote:
That makes a lot of sense! The bolt holding it in at the moment is the reverse thread bolt from the drill chuck, would that be secure enough to drill in to, or would you drill through the drill shaft it is screwed in to as well? I imagine the holding pin/bolt would have to be quite thin, so would it stand up to impact well?
If my memory serves, a drill shaft is 12mm diameter dropping down to ~10mm at the threaded part. If you can get away with an M4 bolt/pin, I would go for that (centrally drilled, that will leave 3mm material either side of the ~10mm portion or 4mm on the 12mm section) but an M3 bolt/pin would likey be okay.
Should be. I am going to be doing this on my Middleweight as the M6 grub screw has fallen out during fights a few times. Ironically, the M5 grub screw on the other side has not fallen out once, probably because it fits better in the keyed shaft of the motor. I would use nyloc nuts on the ends of the screws though.Quote:
I imagine the holding pin/bolt would have to be quite thin, so would it stand up to impact well?
Wheels are now secure!
I bit the bullet and bought a pillar drill from Screwfix, some 120mm trolley wheels and some 3/8th bolts from a Land Rover Defender. A quick blowtorch and heat press later, the wheels are on!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqrDqrNX_yo
It works, but seems to be pulling off to the right at low acceleration. I'm hoping that this is just the wheel catching on something and not something more serious. A thought in my head is that I've managed to lock the gearboxes in different gears, but I'm not sure if that's even possible.
I've applied for Robodojo now, so pressure is on to get finished! :D
Jibril does pull as well under low acceleration as well. Think Azriel does as well. I would try driving it on a piece of plywood or something to see what happens then. Uneven contact along the leading edge of the robot may also contribute to this.
If they're normal Argos drill motors the gearboxes are single speed, so no worries there! I've found going in a straight line at low speed a challenge too, I think basically what happens is that the motors are slightly mismatched (not sure if the drill motors have equal timing, if not that would be a guaranteed mismatch) so that when you're just putting a teeny bit of power on one motor starts running and the other doesn't. When you put a bit more power on the effect is much less pronounced.
Basically, if you're at say 25% throttle or so (let's assume the motors will start turning at abut 3V) they're on the cusp of starting, so a small difference between them is very pronounced if - again pulling numbers out of the air for illustrative purposes - one actually starts at 2.9V and the other at 3.2V. In that case one is turning and other is not moving at all, so you'd just go in circles.
To cut to the end... Same thing happened to me, I adjusted the trim on the Tx a bit and it seemed to be OK. I recommend tweaking the trim with the wheels off the ground so you can see when they start to move.
So the robot is pretty much done! I've got a few other minor bits to sort, but there won't be many changes from this between now and Robodojo.
LiPos, fuse and LEDs are wired in:
Attachment 9307
Dustpans fitted on to the front:
Attachment 9308
I've taken Sam's advice and adjusted the trim on the Tx and it drives much better (Thank you both Lucy and Sam for your comments on this, really put my mind at ease).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TDp5RVDTv8&feature=youtu.be
A few little bits still to do:
- Fit polycarb panels to front, back and sides of the toaster. This may change to mild steel, depending on how I get on. I quite a bit of weight still to use (currently 7.5kg).
- Add extra bike tyre to the new, larger wheels. Whether I have the space within the wheel guards to do so is a different matter.
- The dustpans have a fair bit of ground clearance due to being mounted straight on to the chassis, which kind of works against their purpose. I may get some hinges and attach them through those to scrape the ground more.
- Figure out armouring the top panel. I want to keep the slots because it needs to look like a toaster, but I'm also very wary of axes. I either put a polycarb panel across the top (which means no toast making in the arena :(), or have the same size panel just above the mounts and have the top half of the toaster as "sacrificial space". Either way, this is the main route of doing maintenance on the robot, so needs to be kept easily accessible.
Looks marvellous! Looks... toasty in fact. :D Great job getting it up and running.
Could you fit a polycarb panel to the top with some (decorative) slices of "toast" sticking out? Just cut from foam or polystyrene would do it, or even something more solid since you've got weight to spare. That way you could have a bit more protection AND maintain your delicious toasty aesthetic.
(By the way, is anyone else expecting this to have the personality of Talkie Toaster from Red Dwarf?)
Looks very good, well done!
Ah, but which version of Talkie are we talking about? Definitely looks like the Series 2 version, just needs a light on it :PQuote:
(By the way, is anyone else expecting this to have the personality of Talkie Toaster from Red Dwarf?)
Given that the universe is infinite, and God is also infinite... Would you like a toasted teacake?
Talkie would be a brilliant personality for this machine, red paint and an led panel would make a passable “mk2†talkie like series VI.
Edit: Huge Red Dwarf fan, sorry :proud:
Great design-very much in the style of the early Robot Wars series where wedge shaped Robots
were frowned upon, well done, your Robot has personality, more like this please.
Event Report - Robodojo December 2019
The moment I had been waiting for had arrived. The debut of Bread Dead Redemption.
Saturday
In the days building up to Robodojo, I had been frantically cutting and bolting polycarbonate on to any exposed parts of the toaster that I could. I elected to put polycarbonate under the toast slices on the top at the expense of decorative toast, which with Midas and Pressure Point attending, I figured my decision was justified. Work continued well in to Saturday afternoon, until the point came to pile everything in to the car and set off for our hotel.
On arriving at the hotel, a few beers watching I'm a Celebrity, then Match of the Day, then bed.
Sunday
Early start on a freezing morning in Sherburn in Elmet. Roger and I gave a hand in setting up the arena, which certainly helped warm us up. I brought Bread Dead in and found a spot on the end of a bench including Mecha Sombra 2, BOB 3, Lunatic, Ensign Wedgeley Crusher, Blue Moon, Vettel's Vengeance, Crota and Toothless.
Attachment 9329
Tech check passed, that called for a sausage barm and a cup of tea.
Round 1 - Graffiti
First round of the event saw Bread Dead Redemption drawn against Graffiti, a robot usually in the full combat division. I wasn't too familiar with it going in to the event, but I was assured by other roboteers that it was going to be a baptism of fire. Having not driven the robot more than a few feet in the garage previously, I was so excited and nervous to get going.
Attachment 9330
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdrzrd-zX_0
While arming up, the robot decided to go in to reverse on it's own accord. Not a great start, but it seemed to even out when I got to the corner. I got in to some good positions against Graffiti, but unfortunately didn't have the power to make any meaningful push. After the fight, the robot was still functional, just a bent dustpan.
Round 2 - Ensign Wedgeley Crusher
Round 2 matched Bread Dead against Ensign Wedgeley Crusher.
Attachment 9331
This was a fight I was hoping for, as Sam has been incredibly helpful in this thread during the construction of the robot and it was great to finally meet the team in person. There was a bit of sizing up each other's robots down the bench before the fight, with the Wedgeley team unsure they could fit the toaster in their jaws. I was hoping to use that to my advantage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRc7wgUprsw
That was a win! A great contest too. The lack of pushing power became apparent again, but I tried my best to keep the dustpans pointed at EWC and got a few pins against the wall. Absolutely buzzing.
Round 3 - Boring Wedge Bot
Round 3 against Boring Wedge Bot. I was informed that this was originally part of a cluster, so was only 5.5kg, a great fit for my dustpans and had one wheel covered in a shedload of duct tape to try and get some grip. Given the previous two rounds, I definitely wasn't confident of a victory, but surely I could push this one about a bit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGDXzOvFjBI
The fight began and I could push! Unfortunately, another problem soon became apparent. Despite the dustpans being low enough to get underneath BWB, the middle ridge where the two pans were joined was too high, meaning that BWB could easily get underneath if I attacked head on. I altered my strategy, trying to attack from a slight angle to get a good scoop, but a wheel fell off in the final few seconds and BWB got the win via judges decision.
Round 4 - Lunatic
As soon as I saw the matchup for Round 4, I knew it was a near-impossible task to get a victory. Lunatic finished 2nd overall in the yearly sportsman rankings, so I was just hoping to survive for as long as I could.
Attachment 9332
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZTQI0vz_ec
I survived for longer than I expected. Bread Dead took some really heavy hits in this fight, but stood up to them well. I'm really pleased with how resilient it has turned out. Despite getting battered, I had so much fun.
Round 5 - Danger UXB
Surprise announcement, there was to be another round! Danger UXB was running on one motor due to breakages, so I was hopeful. I also heard enthusiasm from some roboteers watching the fights who were keen to see how the two unusual designs fought. We had been shocked after Round 4 about how well the robot had stood up to damage, with nothing requiring major repairs except screwing a wheel back on. Famous last words......
All I had to do was get to the arena.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QqKWrZZvAg
Disaster. Driving to the corner, I hit a seam in the floor panels that dislodged a small servo cable from the receiver out of the speed controller. The lights were on, but nobody was home, and I was DQ'ed.
Gutted to finish a fantastic day that way, but it is what it is. After fixing the problem, I offered a whiteboard fight to Colin who was driving Danger UXB, which he accepted, but there sadly wasn't enough time in the schedule. I'll get you next time, Colin! :D
Conclusions
What a fantastic weekend! I loved every single second of it and had a big, stupid grin on my face pretty much all day. Actual dream come true. Thank you to Ian, Alex and Keith for organising the event. Also thank you to everyone who gave compliments and feedback about the toaster and made us feel so welcome. I'll see you all at the next one.
Improvements
With regards to improvements, it is obvious that the following issues need improving:
- Lack of power
- Lack of traction
- Difficult to control
- Better dustpans
I'm quite time restricted between now and Jan 26th for the next Robodojo, so I will have to prioritise. These are the solutions in my head so far:
- Upgrade from a 3s lipo to a 4s, overvolting the motors. More power.
- Ditch the plan of adding an axe and put the spare weight allowance to making the robot 4WD. I'm not sure how to do this with the Dual Sabertooth ESC. Would it be possible to wire two motors together on each side and wire them in to the ESC that way, or would that blow the board? Either that or rig up some drive pods with gears so one motor drives two wheels. I'm not sure yet.
- I would like tank-style steering. It's what I'm used to and just using one stick was proving difficult at times. Again, whether this is possible with a dual ESC, I don't know.
- Custom made dustpan (will have to happen eventually), or reinforce the current ones. I'm contemplating a Sawblaze style 3-prong pan, but I'm not sure that is needed for now. I'll have a think. The pans held up reasonably, but they may need replacing and modifying if I keep them as is.
First off, well done at your 1st event! I've faced all of those bots in some capacity before & going 1-3 against them for your 1st event isn't bad at all. Regarding your 4WD query, I definitely think 4 drill motors is the way to go in this case. Simply wire the motors in parallel & mount them & you should be good. Just make sure that the current rating for the Sabertooth is higher than the combined rating than the motors & you should be OK. It might be possible to have tank steering for a Sabertooth depending on your transmitter.
Great write up, and great to meet you and see BDR yesterday! Congrats on your victory again and on your performance throughout the day. Those dustpans were amazingly effective, especially at scooping up Wedgeley - seemed to spend a lot of time with either our bottom jaw or a wheel stuck in there!
Is this the Sabretooth ESC you have? If so, it might struggle a bit with two drill motors on each channel. As James says, to run two motors per side you'd just connect them together in parallel to the same channel of the ESC, either by connecting both into the same output on the ESC or making a separate cable to common the reds and blacks. However, 12 A might be a bit weedy to run two motors - the FeatherTwo (which was designed for this type of motor and application) is spec'd for 30 A per motor continuous and 80 A burst. I'm sure that's a bit OTT, but a quick read around suggests "normal" current from a 550 size motor at 12 V is of the order of 10 A. That means there's a fair chance two in parallel will be drawing 20 A a fair bit of the time, especially overvolted with a 4s battery, and you'd be over 100 A if two motors stalled.
In theory, the Sabretooth has overcurrent protection but I wouldn't rely on that save itself, plus if you trip the current limit the drive will cut out and leave you sat there like a muffin.
Regarding tank steering, it says on the Robot Shop site that the Sabretooth "... comes with options for exponential control, autocalibration and built-in mixing. The operating mode is set with the onboard DIP switches ..." So to control the two channels independently, you'd just need to find from the manual which of the DIPs sets the mixing and switch it off - if I'm reading that right. Then you'd have independent control of each channel.
If you want tank steering and two motors a side, these are OK and not too pricey. We have one running the weapon motor in Ensign Crusher and I believe Chris has one driving each pair of motors on Luna-Tic.
Edit: forgot to say, good luck with the updates!
I am gutted I wasn't there for this one to see your bot in action, I had Azriel running for this and all. :( Anyway, well done on your first event!
Yup, I'd go for this. 14.8v over 11.1v should make a bit of difference in terms of speed and power.Quote:
Upgrade from a 3s lipo to a 4s, overvolting the motors. More power.
The simplest option is to, as James said, is to put a motor for each wheel in and put them in parallel. I did this with my first Middleweight Kaizen, worked fine but you do need to ensure your ESC can handle it. If your ESC is a 2x25 then I suspect that might be OK though I would recommend putting a fuse per motor in (20A) to prevent the motors from stone killing the ESC and themselves (as I found out).Quote:
Ditch the plan of adding an axe and put the spare weight allowance to making the robot 4WD. I'm not sure how to do this with the Dual Sabertooth ESC. Would it be possible to wire two motors together on each side and wire them in to the ESC that way, or would that blow the board? Either that or rig up some drive pods with gears so one motor drives two wheels. I'm not sure yet.
If you mean like a RC car, then yes, you'd want to move your elevator channel to the rudder channel for steering. If you wanted full tank like control, you'd need a different transmitter (one with both sides where the up and down movements are sprung on it) and then turn off the mixing on the ESC, which you can do on the DIP switches. I happen to have one as it goes, might be persuaded to part with it.Quote:
I would like tank-style steering. It's what I'm used to and just using one stick was proving difficult at times. Again, whether this is possible with a dual ESC, I don't know.
Yeah, I'd get the internals "right" first before remaking the body. If you ever wanted a hand in doing this, quite happy to help.Quote:
Custom made dustpan (will have to happen eventually), or reinforce the current ones. I'm contemplating a Sawblaze style 3-prong pan, but I'm not sure that is needed for now. I'll have a think. The pans held up reasonably, but they may need replacing and modifying if I keep them as is.
It was great seeing you and Bread Dead for the first time! Definitely one of my favorite events this year.
Your Sabertooth should be okay by my reckoning. Boring Wedgebot uses a 2x12, which is absolutely not up to the task. The current limiting has kept it alive for... nearly a good 7 years now (part of the reason I've not been able to justify getting a new one) but is also a factor to its twitchy performance; even when it does get grip, that then overloads the ESC, but can never kill it..... long story short don'y use a 2.12 kids :p Your 2x25 looks alright as long as you don't push it overly hard.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes along for the next Dojo, if you ever want a hand with anything, I'm only down the road in East Manchester) :) Good luck with it mate!
Thanks to all for your comments and feedback. I'm still buzzing a week later!
Based on what you guys have said, I've got all the parts on order to redo pretty much all the electrics for 4WD. So much for prioritising, eh? Hopefully shouldn't be too bad now that I've had a bit of experience. Praying that my measurements are right and it all fits, because it's going to be a tight squeeze.
Sam is correct, BDR runs off a 2x12. Based on what Theo said, that may explain the total lack of pushing power last weekend if the ESC overcurrent protection was constantly kicking in.
Cheers for that, I've ordered 2. I've also got a Flysky FS-I6X and 2 new motors. In order to fit everything in, I'm dropping back down to 100mm wheels from 120. This means I've ordered new mounts from Nat with the center to base height reduced by 10mm. The smaller wheels should mean more torque too.Quote:
If you want tank steering and two motors a side, these are OK and not too pricey. We have one running the weapon motor in Ensign Crusher and I believe Chris has one driving each pair of motors on Luna-Tic.
Should be a big improvement, if all goes well!
Event Report - Robodojo January 2020
Back in action for 2020! Bread Dead Redemption made it's way back to Sherburn in Elmet for it's second ever event.
Pre-event, Upgrades and Objectives
Last time around, BDR went 1-3 (1-4 if you include not starting a fight). In my post event write up, I identified the following concerns and proposed plans:
Quote:
Improvements
With regards to improvements, it is obvious that the following issues need improving:
Quote:
- Lack of power
- Lack of traction
- Difficult to control
- Better dustpans
These are the solutions in my head so far:
- Upgrade from a 3s lipo to a 4s, overvolting the motors. More power.
- Ditch the plan of adding an axe and put the spare weight allowance to making the robot 4WD.
- I would like tank-style steering. It's what I'm used to and just using one stick was proving difficult at times.
- Custom made dustpan (will have to happen eventually), or reinforce the current ones. The pans held up reasonably, but they may need replacing and modifying if I keep them as is.
Due to spending half of the time since last Robodojo on holiday, it was difficult to get all of the above achieved. I could have pushed for it, but would have rathered played it safe and have something functional rather than being too ambitious and ruining the robot.
So, the robot was upgraded like so:
Power: Toaster remained on 3S batteries, but the old Sabertooth 2x12a ESC was ditched in favour of 2x Hobbywing 0880 Dual 80a ESCs. If previous discussions were correct, this should give drastically increased power.
Traction: Drive unchanged, still running on 12v Argos drill motors. Making the robot 4WD would have required turning the old chassis in to swiss cheese and dropping the wheel sizes down, which is more than I had time for. The new ESCs also allow for 2x motors per side, so future proof in that regard.
Control: No real change. My budget transmitter was ditched in favour of a Flysky FS-I6X for on board mixing. Still using elevon mixing on one stick.
Dustpan: Honestly, replacing the dustpans was effort. I opted to reinforce the old ones by hammering them flat and attaching 10mm HDPE wedges to the middle and sides. This would primarily strengthen the pans. I also noticed that during the last event, any hits to the corners would flatten the edges at the front, making them less effective in scooping other robots as the event went on. The HDPE was intended to replace that wedge, while also protecting the metal corners from damage.
ETC: I also purchased a 3D printer in the January sale! After a few days tinkering with the settings, I was finally able to print some custom internal mountings for the ESC and batteries, meaning that everything was no longer held together with double-sided automotive tape!
Attachment 9370
------------------------
Objectives
- Maintain/equal 1-3 record from December
- At least 1 win by knockout.
------------------------
Event
Day of the event arrived and I found myself on a bench with Vettel's Vengeance, Blue Moon and Woody. Tech check passed, lid back on and we were ready for action!
Attachment 9371Attachment 9372Attachment 9373Attachment 9374
Round 1 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Danger UXB
The first event of the year and I got the match I was hoping for! I got my rematch against Danger UXB of Team Death, who I broke down against in December. Unfortunately I lost a motor connection while arming up the robot, so I started the fight on one wheel or risked being DQed again. I couldn't even start the fight in the corner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JoLrmt9yTE
The fight went as expected. I got stuck in the wall and was counted out just before I got free. Team Death is proving to be a bogey team for me, with technical issues twice on the run. Given that UXB threw a chain after a hit on BDR, I reckon I would have had a chance had the fight kept going.
Congratulations to Colin for his win, I'll get you next time :lol:(again).
The break was caused by the lid, which has to be pushed inside the robot and mounted from the inside out. This was immediately obvious that it had pulled the wire out. This was bodged from the original design of the toaster and is something I was intending on fixing eventually, but has been bumped up to urgently now.
Round 2 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Harald
Motor connections soldered back on, and it was time for a fight with Harald, who was a new opponent to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMO2yb030kM
The toaster took off with speed, which was a relief that my electrical improvements had worked. I was able to get under Harald and push him around. Definite improvement from last time. My main objective of the event was to get a win by KO, so it felt great to do that in a convincing manner as early as Round 2.
One observation is that it takes a double tap of the stick to put the robot in reverse, which may be due to the ESC software. Something to look in to, as there were a few occasions throughout the day where I was stuck somewhere awkward and unable to move.
1-1 going in to Round 3. Overjoyed with the performance, I was optimistic awaiting the next draw.
Round 3 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Pressure Point
Oh.
Oh no...
Not going to lie, my heart sank when I heard BDR was drawn against Pressure Point, arguably the most destructive robot in the whole division. A rule change to the Sportsman division for 2020 means that crushers can now use hydraulics, but at limited force. That's exactly what Pressure Point does. Given that Alan had snapped a self righting cable in an earlier round, my only hope was that I could get under him early and tip him over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNIQA8L4oc8
Yeah. Ow.
Attachment 9375Attachment 9376Attachment 9377
On the positive side, the dustpans prevented Pressure Point from getting anywhere near the main internals of the robot (although I reckon he could have really done more damage if he wanted to). Damage was all relatively cosmetic. The dustpans given some precision percussive maintenance (read: large hammer) and the side was screwed back in place for the next round.
Loved the crowd reaction though! Even though toaster got munched, it was well worth it to be entertaining.
Round 4 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Ensign Wedgeley Crusher
Another December rematch! This time against my good friends in Team Designed for Demise. I got the victory last time we met, so they were determined to even the score (They even showed me a picture of them practicing in their kitchen on their own toaster with dustpans taped to it!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=httg0avN9jg
After the first impact I lost drive in the same motor as Round 1 again, but I kept going, partly helped by EWC pushing me around! Unfortunately for Simon driving EWC, he found himself stuck on the edge of the arena within my limited turning circle and I scraped another KO! Great fight by the Wedgeley team, always enjoy fighting them.
Summary
Success! That left me 2-2 for the weekend. Not quite enough to make the playoff rumble, but that's ok.
I actually exceeded my expectations, getting 2 wins by KO. Robot is definitely improving, with still plenty of room for more in future. Bring on March!
Room for improvement:
- New dustpans. This has already been done. I've got 2 new pans, 40mm wider than the old ones and 2x thicker and heavier. Weighing 1kg each, this is possibly the most industrial dustpan I can get commercially. The shop description says that "this is the sort of item that will last and be passed down for generations" and has a lifetime guarantee, We'll see about that, shall we? :lol:
- Investigate the ESC/Drive issues. Possibly just change the motor for a spare, plus look at the ESC software.
- Redesign the lid. Simply put, I'm not willing to lose another fight because of something so silly as that.
Great to see you again Andrew, Initially I thought you were counted out in our fight
before the regulation 10 seconds but looking at the video you were stood still for at
least 10 seconds and Peter got it spot on, normally I will take an easy win anytime
but to find ourselves in a virtual de ja vu situation was real bad luck.
Almost 2 months to the next Robodojo so plenty of time for upgrades for all parties
and given my own repairs are straightforward i'm pleased and looking forward to
another default win next time ;):D .
Great write up again Andy, and congrats on your performance! Despite the nasty perforations in the dustpans they once again did well at fending everyone off. May they long continue to do so, especially the new heavy duty ones.
Speaking of perforation, you can hear me in the background making a horrified noise when Pressure Point went through your side panel... Glad there was no major damage, it looked a bit gruesome.
Well done on beating us (again!), we'll get you next time... :mrgreen:
In the meantime, more training for Wedgeley:
https://i.imgur.com/tbfTxFC.jpg
I should've mentioned that when I recommended those ESCs, so my bad there. It's quite possible I had the programming card in the car... :-| It's a quick job to fix, you just need one of these programming cards: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223471372998Quote:
One observation is that it takes a double tap of the stick to put the robot in reverse, which may be due to the ESC software. Something to look in to, as there were a few occasions throughout the day where I was stuck somewhere awkward and unable to move.
It's also worth increasing the reversing throttle to 100% and possibly twiddling the brakes a bit.
So, it has been a little while! Lots of work has been going on, which has basically been a full rebuild of BDR using everything I have learned from the last two events. I'm still unsure whether it is still BDR, or moving on to BDR2, but whatever.
First things first, 4WD has been the aim since December. To accommodate the extra set of motors and wheels, this means a new chassis. A change of colour too! Chassis is 20mm as with last time, with a few extra bits of 10mm in areas where I need the space.
Attachment 9413Attachment 9416
One of the major learning points was my fight with Pressure Point in January. The joins in the top of the HDPE were too exposed and weakly joined together. To rectify this, the top, side and base panels now all interlock using box joints. This will mean that the chassis material will bear the load of a lot more force when damaged, rather than the screws holding it together.
Attachment 9414
Much more secure!
The move to 4WD also meant dropping a wheel size from 120mm to 100mm. This meant new mounts from Nat that were reduced by 10mm to give the same ground clearance as previous. Gearboxes were taken apart and given a bit of TLC with some molybdenum grease. Good as new!
Attachment 9415
Electrics were just a straight transfer from the old chassis. To prevent a repeat of the wire pulling incident from January, we resoldered all of the motor connections with solid-core wire.
Attachment 9417
The move to 4WD means less space in the toaster, so a mezzanine level has been built in. ESCs go underneath to get all of the motor wiring out of the way. All the battery stuff goes on top for easy access.
Attachment 9418
The ESCs have also been reprogrammed to eliminate the issue with having to double-tap the stick to reverse, which was pretty vital. My transmitter has also been converted to a dual spring return setup, so this version of BDR will be running on tank steering (finally!).
Attachment 9419
New chassis, same toaster. Design has been changed so I can lift the whole toaster off to do maintenance now, rather than messing around with a lid where the slices are. Much easier. We've also added some domed washers to the screws, which I think look awesome!
Just need to sort out re-cutting the front and back polycarbonate panels, then fit the new dustpans, then we're combat ready for Robodojo next weekend (coronavirus permitting)! Very excited.
That long break between Robodojo events has been useful and your four wheel drive should make your
Robot even more competitive -I don't think it was lacking pushing power before just reliability perhaps.
Everything in the robot has now been re-wired with single core wire. All soldering points have been redone. Any excess wire from the previous build has been reduced. This should definitely improve the reliability. (Also, you can never have too much pushing power, Colin! :lol:)
Attachment 9420
Front and back HDPE panels have been done. Also, a 3D printed link holder. Much less exposed than the previous wire dangling out.
Finally, we took it out for a test drive. It's definitely quick!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuUyTGw4nVs
Awesome work Andy. Only just got around to reading this after the, ahem, distractions of the last few days.
Looks like pretty much a ground-up rebuild of the whole machine, and very solid one at that. Look forward to seeing it driving in person, whenever that happens, and definitely getting beaten again now. :D
Event Report - Robodojo(s) July 2020
Well, my friends. It has been a while, hasn't it? We have all the improvements to cover, plus both (Yes, both!) Robodojo Sportsman events in July. It's going to be a long one. Make yourself comfortable, grab a brew and settle in for the latest updates from Bread Dead over the last few months.
Improvements
So improvements-wise, we faced a mad rush to get BDR ready for the March Dojo. After working on it constantly for 2 weeks to get it ready, only to have the event cancelled due to the announcement of lockdown, my motivation to work on it dropped through the floor. At the time I last updated this log, all was left was to fit the toaster and the front dustpans. Instead I busied myself with other robot projects, including an antweight, a beetle and acquiring a heavyweight chassis.
Attachment 9649
Attachment 9635
I wasn't expecting featherweight events to return as quickly as they did. Honestly, I was expecting 2020 to be a complete write-off for events in general. When Robodojo announced a July competition, I faced a bit of a dash to get BDR fighting fit.
Toaster
Not much to report here. The intention was that the toaster lifts off entirely to access the internals to avoid a repeat of pulling motor wires out. Easily solved with some stainless steel angle brackets. The previous 10mm polycarbonate top panel on the inside of the toaster was replaced with a 12mm sheet across the outside now that the slices weren't required.
Dustpan
Oh man, here we go. The original pan was to bolt the new pans together in the same manner as the old one. However, the previous complaints were that the middle ridge was affecting the ground scraping capabilities and that the metal was too thin. I had been itching for an opportunity to practice with my new welder and had a sheet of 2mm mild steel lying around, what could possibly go wrong?
Attachment 9636
Attachment 9650
Weld prep.
Attachment 9637
Attachment 9651
I cut out a template from the sheet steel to weld to the underside of the pans to support.
Attachment 9638
Attachment 9652
Success! Ok, the weld quality wasn't great but it held, which I was happy with for a first attempt. Problem was, my calculations had the robot significantly overweight. The angled point to the pan was also affecting our ability to point it down, causing issues with ground scraping. We were going to have to cut some out.
Attachment 9639
The center join was gone. Having already welded the pans, trying to weld together two sheets of different thickness was going to cause issues.
Attachment 9640
Attachment 9653
Yeah, not great. I had to grind the lip of the dustpan back so the weld wasn't on the leading edge, so the leading edge is only the bottom sheet of steel. Down the middle the dustpans were too thin, so just melted away. I did the best I could, but it isn't pretty. We also added a bar of 10mm HDPE to the top to support the weld there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W46qmAmEI2g
Attachment 9641Attachment 9642
Attachment 9654Attachment 9655
If in doubt, cover it in spray paint. We added some angled HDPE guards to the back of the dustpan to protect against any side swipes.
Attachment 9643
Attachment 9656
Good to go!
Robodojo - 12th July
The day of the event arrived! Masks on faces, we arrived at our pit space for the day alongside Alan with Pressure Point. You could feel the anxiety in the atmosphere due to the social distancing, but as soon as the first fight was done it was like all was well with the world again.
Attachment 9645Attachment 9646
Oh, and unknown to me, they had added a 2 inch steel lip to the pushout zones, making my plans pretty much useless! This was going to be tough, with most fights likely going the full 3 minutes if I didn't get knocked out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cheMl-x7r6A
Round 1 - Exabyte
First round was against Exabyte of Team Phyte, a low wedge similar to Steel Sandwich of the original RW series. I was hoping that the dustpan would be enough to get underneath, which it did. Once I saw their back forks flip under the robot, I left them stranded for an quick knockout win! Off to a good start!
1-0
Round 2 - Red Hot Tilly Pecker & Euphoria
Due to the odd number of robots in attendance, each round included a Triple Threat. The draw wasn't kind for me in this one, putting me against the vicious axe of Red Hot Tilly Pecker and lifting power of Euphoria. Having chatted to both Isaac and Shane beforehand, the early advantage was going to come down to who Tilly went for first. Either Euphoria because of an ongoing friendly rivalry between the two, or me because, well, it's a toaster.
The fight started cautiously too, with each bot waiting to see who made the first move. Euphoria and Tilly went for each other and the fight was on! I got a few good scoops in before Tilly and Euphoria teamed up to flip BDR on it's back and out of the fight. Euphoria later got stuck on the plastic and a few of Tilly's axe hits got to Euphoria's lifter gearbox, which reduced it to a push bot for the rest of the afternoon.
A really fun fight. One slight issue was that I noticed one side of the drive wasn't working while BDR was on it's back. Got it back to the bench and all was well. Hmm. Oh well, hopefully a nice draw in the next round...
1-1
Round 3 - Pressure Point
Oh no. Not again.
Yes, it was a January rematch against pit bench buddy Pressure Point. After the damage it caused in January, I was glad I had made changes with fighting it in mind. The dustpans survived with minor dents, rather than going straight through. A solid fight, I tried my best to keep the dustpans pointed at Pressure Point as I knew he couldn't reach anything vital.
It was all going very well until the drive died on the same side as Round 2 again, at which point I was a sitting duck. Pressure Point took advantage by grabbing the side of BDR and putting it's beak straight through the link, pushing it in to the wheels where the wires got wrapped up and pulled itself out.
Checking the batteries after the fight, each cell was around 3.7V, which led me to believe that the ESC voltage protection was kicking in at nominal voltage after around 2 minutes. If this was true, it meant that I would have to drive like hell to score points and just try to survive when the drive started dying.
Attachment 9644
Ouch.
1-2
Round 4 - Neophyte
And what an opponent to test that vulnerability! The second of the Team Phyte bots was Neophyte, a linear actuator driven lifter. Neophyte would need just one good flip to win, so I would have to be on my A-game for the full 3 minutes. Kind of difficult when your drive cuts out after 2:30...
The fight started well, pushing Neophyte around and even managing to bend it's flipper at one point. They managed to get a couple of lifts in, but not enough to topple BDR. When the drive began to fail, BDR was lifted on to it's back just as cease was called. Saved by the bell. BDR was given the win by Judge's Decision.
2-2
Round 5 - Parasite
The final round was against Parasite, the final robot of the Team Phyte triumvirate. This posed a real threat, as the axe would rack up points quickly with the judges. A very close fight that went the full 3 minutes, it was eventually decided by Alex (Judge) inspecting the top panel of BDR for damage before ruling that BDR had been given the W on control and aggression.
This left us at 3-2 for the day. Well placed for points on the yearly leaderboard! When the scores were announced we were tied for 4th, which meant a playoff.
4th Place Playoff - Mattock
4th place was currently contested by Mattock, driven as a loaner-bot by Theo. Theo had also successfully piloted Mattock to 2nd place in January, so was definitely a real threat. We had been angling for a rematch since December when I faced Boring Wedgebot, so it was great to have a fight for meaningful points!
The fight started well, dodging axe blows and getting a few good slams in. Unfortunately the drive died earlier than expected and I was crab walking. I eventually found myself pinned against the wall with axe blows raining down. Due to damage taken in the fight against Pressure Point, the link was held on with a zip tie. One incredibly accurate axe shot was all it took, the fight was over.
Attachment 9647Attachment 9648
Yes, that's my link on the end of Mattock's axe. If I was going to go out, I'm glad it was spectacular.
So we ended the weekend in 5th, gaining 4 points for the yearly leaderboard which is a fantastic finish considering it is only my 3rd event. Also, the fights I lost were to 1st (Pressure Point), 2nd (Red Hot Tilly Pecker), 3rd (Euphoria) and 4th (Mattock), so there is no shame in that!
Very pleased, with clear areas for improvement.
To make matters better, it was announced that due to dropouts, competitors from the 12th would also be allowed to enter the second event on the 26th! Two weeks to make improvements. How did we get on?
In the next installment: repairs, improvements and the second July round of Robodojo Sportsman!
To be continued....
Well, we've now passed my first year of combat robotics. Been a bit quieter than I was expecting, but lots of work going on improving robots for when everything is back to normal.
I forgot to write my follow up to Robodojo July 2, so here's the video and a quick summary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXGCfNa4m4U
There were a few minor changes from it's last outing. The link was moved to the back panel and placed under a cover, the batteries were upgraded to 3300mAh 4S from 2100mAh 3S. The base plate was also changed to 10mm from 20mm HDPE to allow weight for the extra upgrades, weighing in at 13.4kg ahead of the event.
The event went ok, going 2-4. BDR performed relatively well (including one of my favourite fights I've ever had vs Luna-tic), but issues came from the extra power moving to 4S. The added pushing power proved too much for the heat-pressed nuts holding the wheels on.
Attachment 9735
The early fights on the day started well, but gradually got slower and slower as the wheels fell off. I've invested in some hubs for any future events.
---------------
Anyway, on to the future. BDR has been out of action since July and is in need of a complete redo. While I'm really happy with how BDR is performing, it desperately needs an active weapon. I'm not sure of the overall design, but I'm keen to keep a lot of the positives from this version. Here are my objectives:
- Maintain the control/high pushing power aspect of the robot, preferably keeping the dustpan
- Add an active weapon, currently looking at a Shockwave/Breaker Box/Duck style lifter.
- Alter the shape of the chassis to increase the tip-back angle for fights against wedges.
- Reduce the weight of the robot (all the 10mm polycarb on the toaster weighs 3.2kg!!)
Hoping to get quite a bit of work done on all my bots over the Christmas break. Once I've got a CAD together for Bread Dead 2, I'm hoping to have it ready for the early months of 2021.
Some good fights there, nice work! Just thinking on the wheel hub problem, perhaps a nut with a plate on it which bolts to the wheel and then either a pin through that nut and shaft or a nyloc on the other side of the wheel might be more robust?
That fight against Luna-Tic was brilliant - can see why you enjoyed it. Lots of action, great driving on both sides and a well-deserved win. And well done for de-wheeling Reaver!
I can see what you mean about the speed dropping off over the day. It looked hard to control at low speed at the start, though maybe that's just me.
For anti-tipping features, I was quite pleased with the effectiveness of Wedgeley's springy bits of HDPE - not very aesthetic but they result in a huge (effective) footprint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j79qMRbPKA
Thanks! I've already got the hub situation sorted. I ordered some threaded hubs from Nat which do exactly as you described. I think the trolley wheels have run their course though. I've already got a wheel designed for moulding my own wheels from polyurethane. Should be lighter and give more grip!Quote:
Some good fights there, nice work! Just thinking on the wheel hub problem, perhaps a nut with a plate on it which bolts to the wheel and then either a pin through that nut and shaft or a nyloc on the other side of the wheel might be more robust?
Thanks, although I think Reaver's wheel had been hanging on by a thread for most of the day, I just gave it a helpful nudge :D.Quote:
That fight against Luna-Tic was brilliant - can see why you enjoyed it. Lots of action, great driving on both sides and a well-deserved win. And well done for de-wheeling Reaver!
Not just you. It's a completely different animal! I hadn't done much practice driving (I think we finished the changes the day before) and it was very difficult to control. I'll need to do some tinkering with the ESCs and wheel sizes to bring it back in to line.Quote:
I can see what you mean about the speed dropping off over the day. It looked hard to control at low speed at the start, though maybe that's just me.
I forgot to mention that in the improvements section before the event. We added some angles to the back which will always rock the robot back over on to it's wheels. It's literally impossible to flip it backwards unless you launch it right over like Renegade did (As evidenced by the Euphoria fight).Quote:
For anti-tipping features, I was quite pleased with the effectiveness of Wedgeley's springy bits of HDPE - not very aesthetic but they result in a huge (effective) footprint:
By tip-back angle, I mean the angle you can lift the front of the robot while keeping the wheels still touching the floor. As things stand, it's probably about 10-20 degrees, which on a long robot like BDR doesn't take much lift to get all the wheels off the deck.
The first outing of my new featherweight at Robodojo this year definitely made me want to return next year! I can imagine it's the same with you and BDR. :)
I haven't shared this progress here yet, plus with the first Dojo of the year next week it's probably a good time to do so.
Attachment 9867
Bread Dead 2021 is go! .....kinda (that picture is a render).
Completely new with the exception of the faithful toaster, the dustpan has been changed to a Big Dill/Krusty Grab type lifter. Forks and bucket have already been cut from Hardox 400. Hoping for some big lifts and suplexes!
Internals are fully brushless 42mm outrunners running on 6S with custom polyurethane wheels.
-----------------------
In terms of where we're at presently, the lifter isn't ready yet. So, the brushless drive system and wheels are being retrofitted in to the 2020 BDR chassis for the May Robodojo for a test run while the new chassis is being built.
All things going well, it should be complete in time for the June Robodojo Sportsman event!
Looking good, liking the appearance of the forks on that. I guess the lifting mechanism is going to be brushless as well?
Yep! Propdrive 750kv 4238s on the drive, 500kv 4258 on the lifter. Massively overkill for what I need, tbh. I saw that Dojo lifted their sportsman power limit on motors for this year and got a bit carried away haha!