Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

The arrest of Julien Assange on the charges cited are suspect because they are exactly the same charges that surface from time to time (mostly against soccer players) - all seem to involve 2 women - charges easy to cause shock or concern but incredibly hard to prove especially since these particular allegations date back to August and had already been dismissed by the Swedish court.

As for the leaks themselves......from what is nothing more than what could be called 'tittle-tattle' it has exposed the paranoia of the government of the USA. They have exerted thier influence over the likes of Paypal into witholding donations to Wikileaks and have likely had the same influence over Mastercard and Visa to do same.

Wikileaks have done the world a service - the air badly needed clearing of the dark and dirty world inhabited by the diplomatic services.

....that's my 2p worth :)

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Originally Posted by typhoon_driver

The main problem I have with the wikileaks causes deaths argument is that there is no way to quantify it.

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The argument is not that it causes deaths, but it can put lives at risk because there is no unaccountability for the material being published. Once it is out there it is impossible to retract. Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the argument is invalid. One should always err on the side of caution in cases like these.

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It's a wishy washy argument that loses all credibility in my eyes when you consider how many deaths have been caused by the lies involving weapons of mass destruction etc.

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That really is a non sequitur, one is not related to another. Had the WMD portrayal been real the wikileaks documents would still have been published anyway and the threat of putting lives at risk would still be the same.

On the Iraq WMD thing there is documented proof that they had and used against the Curds and Iranian forces in the
past Gas (a WMD)to kill people including women and children. were the WMD argument went wrong is, the Iraqi
WMDs were smuggled across the boarder in civilian aid aircraft to Syria 4 months before the invasion, and all paperwork
of there existence was destroyed!
The flaw in the western governments argument on this point was the probable deployment of WMD in a very short time,
20 minutes I think, in rockets to Israel who have a lot of WMDs, who would retaliate and BOOOM!!!!. :uhoh: :uhoh:
This of course was to justify the action of occupation in Iraq by the American forces, this of course had nothing
to do with oil!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Tens of thousands of dead Iraqis later and we have a LASTING AND JUST PEACE :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
When we have information about the obvious lies from all governments Wikileaks dose the world on the whole a
service to us all,

it is just a shame we need such a service. :cry: :cry:

wiki leaks is obviously an evil corperation, the HQ is based on the moonraker base off james bond.

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Had the WMD portrayal been real the wikileaks documents would still have been published anyway and the threat of putting lives at risk would still be the same.

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True but surely going to war in the first place over what was essentially a lie (or overhyped report) put a hell of a lot of lives in danger and if anything has meant that civil liberties mean sod all. When was the last time you went through airport security and weren't made to feel like a criminal incase you had a bottle of water in your pocket?

It would appear that everyone, governments included, could do with someone taking an occasional look over their shoulder to make sure everything is above board.

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Originally Posted by typhoon_driver

When was the last time you went through airport security and weren't made to feel like a criminal incase you had a bottle of water in your pocket?

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Maybe it's just me but i actually find the airport security ok. Remember working in Belfast in the late 90's where you had to queue up at the international airport to put your bags through the scanner and the vast majority of people got frisked by hand. That was before you even got to check in and you also had to go through the airport security to get into the departure lounge.

Wikileaks reminds me that all people who live in some sort of free democracy have a duty to those that will in
time follow, to maintain scrutiny of the elected leaders, and there actions, and bring them to account if they transgress.
As our representatives in the global arena. We as a nation are jugged by others on what our government do.

Always remember when you say I won't bother to vote,

someone died to give you that privilege, freedom was certainly not free for them!!

Democracy can survive war, tyranny, starvation, natural disasters and much much more, but it can not survive prolonged periods of apathy.

If you can vote then vote every time.

All damn good reasons to vote.

Unfortunately, I must stick up for someone's choice not to vote, as I do for anyone's right to vote. It is free will that our forebearers fought for not people telling others what to do - in this case vote.

However, as an electoral canvasser, there is one thing I cannot stand which is not signing yourself onto the electoral roll. Before anyone starts whining, it is the citizen's duty, not the state's. If you turn up at a polling station without a polling card - it is not their problem, it's yours.

Also the polling box locks @ 22:00, it is still your responsibility to get your vote in by then, queue or no queue!

Ok rant over.

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Originally Posted by psychostorm

Also the polling box locks @ 22:00, it is still your responsibility to get your vote in by then, queue or no queue!

Ok rant over.

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Yeah but you just don't understand why we can't apply for a postal vote and post it up to two weeks before hand or why when they open at 7am we can't get there before 9.45pm even though we normally have at least six weeks notice.

I really do tink I'll be struggling to vote before 10pm in the may elections, just not enough time to organise anything!! :rofl: :rofl:

But yes, it's probably more important for the student fees thread but if you don't register than you're not entitled to a say!!

I quite understand the argument of the people not wanting to vote, the reality of political freedom, would require this point to be accommodated,

My point to those who put this argument forward is, if too many people take this line, then democracy is weakened as the politicians do not have a strong mandate to govern, and the apathetic attitude of the ordinary voter takes us back to the dark ages of fighting factions split on cultural, economic, religious or ethnic lines. thenthe corporate lobbyist vermin take hold.

My response to those who don't know who to vote for, is to go and spoil the voting slip this shows you can be bothered to vote, but none of the candidates are worth voting for in your opinion, I wish they would put on the voting slip none of the above box.

For those who can not be bothered to put a cross on a bit of paper once every 4 or 5 years don't bother to complain if you don't like the government you end up with.