Active Weapon Proposal

I wish to start this post with the disclaimer that I am a highly inexperienced robot builder to say the least, lol. I€™m currently designing and buying parts for my first ever feather, and will start building it in August.

For starters I would like to say that IMO Storm II was the most exciting robot out of all robots that fought in the last RW New Blood competition. To see how he made his opponents unable to use their active weapons against them due to agility and sheer speed, and the hits he could then deal to his opponents by merely using his entire mass and a simple wedge is pure entertainment in my book. Seeing a good rammer in action, dealing hits with a loud noise is alot more exciting imo than a slow lifter, as banana_man pointed out. And Storm II isn€™t exactly a €œcheap-as-peanuts box on wheels that€™s armoured like a tank and could be built in a weekend€, it was probably one of the more expensive and well-build robots that could be seen on the telly.

Myself, I€™m making a 6WD parallellogram shaped invertible rammer. I€™m not doing that because its the cheapest or easiest option for me, but because I wish to build an effective powerful robot that can ram as well as possible. Where other people put effort in making a spinner setup, I put alot of effort in making a drivetrain to power all my 6 wheels. And to build a solid construction to house powerful (and expensive) motors that will give me high end acceleration and therefor allow me to slam myself against my opponent and being an effective as possible rammer, not an as cheap and simple as possible rammer. Reading between the lines in your post, you dont like losing to robots that cost only a fraction of the money your robot costs and that only took 1 day to build. My robot, and several other rambots, do not fit that description at all, my robot is gonna be as expensive as most other bots I see in the RoamingRobots stats bank, and it will take me effort to get the 6WD drivetrain as effective as possible.

If I want to I could invest 15 euro€™s and buy 3 drill from the Aldi, use 2 drill motors to power 2 wheels and the 3rd one to power an electronic lifter, then put some cardboard around it and have a robot that is alot less expensive and alot less exciting than the bot I am planning to build.

I am very enthusiastic about Metal Demons reply though, rammers CAN be dull, and by reflecting this in a bad judges€™ decision its encouraged to make robots that are exciting to watch. Discouraging people to enter robots that are build on a minimum budget and in a minimum timeframe is one thing and from what I read the essence of Jamie€™s plan, its a valid point but I doubt it should be enforced by forcing people to have active weapons.

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Originally Posted by muchalucha

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What about:
FW with active weapons: 13,6 kg max
FW without active weapons: 10 kg max.
This rules out the heavily armered box. And it gives every beginner without active weapon 3,6 kg to build one.

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i think this is a really good idea (the best so far) , but i think 10 kg is almost too much (6-7 kg maybe ?), because thants , my only FW at the moment only weighs in at 4 kg , but it uses 2 drill motors , its weapon/tactic is going really fast and being very light, being very menouvorable and running circles round the flippers lol.

But still , i dont think this rule should be implemented as is at all , but if it is modified with mariens suggestions , if a really clear need arises than that would be ok . And braps for being brave enough to post this :lol: .

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Only thing I see with a weight restriction is that some armoured boxes, albeit with a strong drivetrain and a lot of power, can be exciting and effective... the restriction should be against boring, weak robots. Those, to be honest, tend to get wrecked by the stronger ones though - upgrading more arenas to full combat might be a solution in order to increase the challenges robots face?

As for that 4kg FW, I don't think it would have much luck in a full combat event to be honest :) fast and maneuverable it might be, but it happens to weigh less than a number of robots' spinning blades!

The general idea should be to have a healthy mix of robots designs. As soon as one design is significantly better and dominating the sport, it should be discouraged in some way. This is regardless if it is pushers, full body spinners or something else. A pusher can be less effective by removing the pit or make the pit less available.

It is an advantage for the sport to allow cheap and simple pushers. Without them we would not have as many new recruits. We do need those newbies to have something to trash. ;) Still, it is generally more fun to watch robots with active weapons. My opinion is that almost everything should be allowed but that we should make arenas and limitations that favors entertaining robots.

Another idea could be to limit everything except the weapon to 10kg. The weapon could then weight up to 3,6kg. That would at least limit the possibility to use a 0,3kg Dremel as active weapon. The obvious drawback with this rule it that it will be tricky to determine what parts are actually weapon and it will require disassembly if it is not obvious that the weapon is heavy enough.

Have Fun
STB

Most of my bots have active weapons exept one Baramot its a ramer its taken a while to get it to how i want it. I do not think it is boring and it is not a cheap box. It has 2 EV Warriors for drive. Sidewinder controler. Custom Ali wheels its fast as hell it does do damage to other bots ask Tom ( Team Xtreme Robotics). It has 6mm Ti for armour (the same as my spinner Dragonstrike) And its the only bot I can use at all events as all my other bots that are running are spinners mind you wont be commpeting again for a while (next year hopefully).

I'm both for and against this rule, but I'm not gonna do a long speech about why or why not have this types of rules.

What if a robot, with active weapons, enters an event and the weapon breaks down, but the robot can still drive. Is it disqualified or allowed to cotinue?

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As for that 4kg FW, I don't think it would have much luck in a full combat event to be honest :) fast and maneuverable it might be, but it happens to weigh less than a number of robots' spinning blades!

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youd be suprized , i do add weight above the wheels depending on my opponents to get more traction.

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Originally Posted by muchalucha

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What about:
FW with active weapons: 13,6 kg max
FW without active weapons: 10 kg max.
This rules out the heavily armered box. And it gives every beginner without active weapon 3,6 kg to build one.

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i think this is a really good idea (the best so far) , but i think 10 kg is almost too much (6-7 kg maybe ?), because thants , my only FW at the moment only weighs in at 4 kg , but it uses 2 drill motors , its weapon/tactic is going really fast and being very light, being very menouvorable and running circles round the flippers lol.

But still , i dont think this rule should be implemented as is at all , but if it is modified with mariens suggestions , if a really clear need arises than that would be ok . And braps for being brave enough to post this :lol: .

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Surely that low mass of robot (7kg, let alone 4) is dangerous with flippers in the arena Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVK-TRMsxy0
A similar reason why there's a lower limit to a heavyweight's mass.

You would have to turn flipper pressures down which could be a disadvantage to the flipper in a 3 or more way melle where another robot has an active weapon.

Thanks to those who have contributed, either again or for the first time. Its good to get an idea of how we all feel about it.

I seem to have unintentionally grouped all rambots into the 'boring cheap box pusher' category, which some of you mention is maybe a bit unfair on those rambots that are fast-paced, or are more expensive and intricate than a pair of drills on wheels. Sorry about that, I do appreciate the cost and effort you guys have put into your machines.

I think one thing that's maybe slipping under the radar a bit is that this proposal would not be a blanket ban on passive robots, only for official competition events. If I apply this proposal to the fighting calendar for 2009, it would currently mean only one competition (UK champs) where passive robots would be restricted, and even then, they would still be allowed to run in whiteboards. Rebel Robots could maybe be affected by the proposal (imagining it in the 2009 calendar again) but that is where the issue of event organiser discretion vs FRA implementation would come up.

Tony, using the above example of the fighting calendar, Baramot could still easily have plenty of run-outs a year at Robots Live, Roaming Robots etc while your spinning robots could have their time at the full combat. You also had Baramot at the UK champs this year where it was running in the whiteboards. That is essentially an exact model of how this proposal would affect a robot team.

I don't want to propose a complete ban on passive robots, as I understand how much building a robot is made easier for new blood by not having to worry about a weapon, especially for first robots. I shall re-iterate that the intention is for it only to apply to official championships. Part of the decision-making process would also be whether to allow passive robots into the competition if it is the builder's first robot (something that could be open for debate)

Joacim, all areas of a combat robot are subject to breakdown and failure at various points. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a robot disqualified just because it suffers weapon failure, but others may think differently. Also technically, there's nothing stopping someone from entering a robot with an active weapon and not using it for the entire event. Lots of issues that would require to be resolved.
But it is generating some good discussion on the forum, nice and healthy :)

do thwack bots count , as there hammers are sort of active weapons and next to flippers and spinners they are very entertaining to watch and if in the hands of a good driver quite destructive

Ahh thwackbots - that's something I meant to mention in the first post but it slipped my mind :P

Its one of those debatable issues. If the proposal was to allow for thwackbots, some people may argue that its not really an active weapon. If not, others would argue that it is an active weapon. My personal feeling would be to allow them because, as you've said, they can be really entertaining to watch and quite destructive. Stinger never caused huge amounts of damage but it could steadily beat the other robot up. Looking at now, we've got Saint Hammer, which is also extremely entertaining to watch bouncing around the arena.

So in my mind, yes, I would allow them but if this proposal gets submitted it would be based on the general concensus.