Corvis (temp bot name) rough ideas.

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Originally Posted by Max

I would say that all sounds hugely expensive (I am imagining near 5 grand but I'm not very sure) but really awesome, I wouldn't bother with a walker but if you are set on one then tats your choice.
I looked into using fluidic muscles but they were very expensive (festo ones were about £200 per muscle I seem to recall). Also remember that with fluidic muscles the amount of stroke depends on the pressure so you would need a good compressor to keep the pressure up, again I would instead go for a mechanism to make it walk based on 2 DC motors to save you a lot of weight as hassle. In the rules it says that all projectiles must be tethered so you would have to tether your spear thing, but it sounds like a cool weapon, but ok not sure on its effectiveness against materials like 6mm hardox, but I am planning a. Similar weapon so I am hoping it will have some effect.
I am sure you realise this but for your first robot keep it simple and work up from there, you will have more fun if you actually build a simple featherweight wedge than if you spend loads of money and set out to build an amazing heavyweight then never actually manage to build it as you have wasted all your money.

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All makes sense.

I AM set on a walker, but don't think for an instant that I think that's a great way to go. I just love walkers.

Festo.. yeah. I was hoping they wouldn't be that much. Wow, ouch! That answers that, then. I will make my own.

I think that with enough cfm, 100psi is plenty for air-muscles?

The stroke is actually not pressure dependent if maxed-out. The stroke is 25% total length, but the force obviously does depend on psi, and cfm as well for speed.

Although my weapon idea is based on an x-bow, the plan is a spear rather than arrow.. ie, it never leaves the bot.

I think your advice re building a f.w wedge makes its point. I might go for a self-made air-muscle based bristle-bot style drive-train. Fiddly, but actually very basic and very cheap. OOO, and I could keep it all below 50psi and avoid some troublesome regs too!

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Originally Posted by typhoon_driver

Don't bother. Start with a simple rammer and get the basics down. Carbon fibre and kevlar won't stand up to much in the arena nowadays either in the feathers or heavyweights. A spear on top powered by a spring will again do little to nothing to robots nowadays. Same reason you don't see chainsaws any more. Plus it would have to be tethered and firing it multiple times would be a pain.

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I'd rather use a bottom-mounted, upward inclined one.. but since we've got legs it cannot be. I am concerned, yes.

I'm surprised about the kevlar. I mean.. what's tougher for the weight than 18 layers with the sheer-thickening, without composite? Most people think kevlar has to be part of standard composite materials.. but those are just resin, and not great. Bad design, poor research.

There are plenty other options, which I know nobody else has bothered to use. But, again, really what I need to understand is exactly what kind of speed and force a bot can expect to encounter or needs to exert. It's starting to sound like I'm a bit off what I'm gonna be hit with, and what I need to hit with too.

yes on both counts. Featherweights nowadays can store of the order of 5 or 6KJ of kinetic energy. Basically take hypno-disc when it first appeared on the scene then let it attack a machine that weighs 13.6kg instead of 100kg. Watch the fights from the recent featherweight champs and remember that most of those machines are armoured in thick titanium, hardox wear plate, steel or ali.

Wow, that is one complex sounding machine! I'm not for a minute going to pretend that I understand everything you're on about, but it sounds exciting to say the least. Wish I could be that creative but sadly I lack a decent imagination and 9 years of actively competing mean that my designs are geared less towards creativity and more towards building a 'mainstream' machine that has a reasonable chance of success.

The advice of starting out simple is good. It may not be as fun as your main design, but it will give you your first active taste of the sport and you will learn a huge amount from that. Also, if you're able to get along to a live event, then I'd recommend doing so. It'll give you a better perspective of the power and forces involved, from which you'll be able to adjust your design and calculations to better improve the effectiveness of your machine.

It'll be a tough build by the sounds of things but your enthusiasm will stand you in good stead and it'll be an interesting one for the rest of us to watch develop. Best of luck :)

Following on Gary saying about FW metal shells. Even the plastic FW have thicker armour than Killerhurtz.

Everything you seem to have chose for amour seems to be aimed at protecting humans and stopping bullets for armour. The air muscles come from BigDog. The weapon sounds utterly crazy... a carbon fibre composite, leaf spring crossbow?

Ok, credit for looking into new technologies and materials, I have even considered the non-newtonian armour myself, but none of this will survive in battle. Period.

I would go and look at the current machines. Looked at the fights. studied tactics. Checked out other build diaries.

To put some of the forces into perspective... in this years champs some of the vertical spinners had some much power they could toss 13.6k robots 2.5m into the air. NST is cable of snapping 4mmx10mm Hardox bar. The heads of that weapon weigh about 1kg and spin at around 3000rpm. Its like 60cm wide. It probably hits with around 1000kg of force at full speed.

LS4 bent 2mm of titanium like it was tin foil. Inertial XL can bend 20mm thick steel bolts

Our machine Binky can toss a 17.5kg cooker 1m into the air, make it flip 3 times and still have enough energy to cut through 8mm of steel and cut a 30mm deep, 120mm long gash in solid concrete.

Kevlar may be tough but against a 3.6kg disc with hardened tool steel teeth it will get cut like a hot knife through butter. It holds the wrong properties. Stick with materials like Titanium and hardened steel. Stick with wheels too. There is also the issue that as your walking method doesn't have 2 axis of freedom and there for would not gain the weight advantage. I also suspect that the air sacks would rupture due to the shocks in the arena. Or a single piece of stray metal.

Follow the advice of some of the other roboteers and build a solid rambot to get the basics down. I started with that, I just added a 1.4kg spinning disc. Some start with electric lifters. Heck some don't even need weapons to be champions. Tiny Toon is a perfect example. I am not trying to dissuade you but the sport has been around for to long and each weapon type has become so optimised that no new tech, not even Nasa or military grade stuff, can change the game enough for a design like yours to survive.

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Originally Posted by Eventorizon

Everything you seem to have chose for amour seems to be aimed at protecting humans and stopping bullets for armour. The air muscles come from BigDog. The weapon sounds utterly crazy... a carbon fibre composite, leaf spring crossbow?

Ok, credit for looking into new technologies and materials, I have even considered the non-newtonian armour myself, but none of this will survive in battle. Period.

I would go and look at the current machines. Looked at the fights. studied tactics. Checked out other build diaries.

To put some of the forces into perspective... in this years champs some of the vertical spinners had some much power they could toss 13.6k robots 2.5m into the air. NST is cable of snapping 4mmx10mm Hardox bar. The heads of that weapon weigh about 1kg and spin at around 3000rpm. Its like 60cm wide. It probably hits with around 1000kg of force at full speed.

LS4 bent 2mm of titanium like it was tin foil. Inertial XL can bend 20mm thick steel bolts

Our machine Binky can toss a 17.5kg cooker 1m into the air, make it flip 3 times and still have enough energy to cut through 8mm of steel and cut a 30mm deep, 120mm long gash in solid concrete.

Kevlar may be tough but against a 3.6kg disc with hardened tool steel teeth it will get cut like a hot knife through butter. It holds the wrong properties. Stick with materials like Titanium and hardened steel. Stick with wheels too. There is also the issue that as your walking method doesn't have 2 axis of freedom and there for would not gain the weight advantage. I also suspect that the air sacks would rupture due to the shocks in the arena. Or a single piece of stray metal.

Follow the advice of some of the other roboteers and build a solid rambot to get the basics down. I started with that, I just added a 1.4kg spinning disc. Some start with electric lifters. Heck some don't even need weapons to be champions. Tiny Toon is a perfect example. I am not trying to dissuade you but the sport has been around for to long and each weapon type has become so optimised that no new tech, not even Nasa or military grade stuff, can change the game enough for a design like yours to survive.

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ok, so i could take each of the "new" ideas i have and fight them seperately as a smaller bot to prove the principle or not... Try a sheer-fluid-infused shell, seperately try the weapon... Each idea at a smaller weight and on its own?

I'm up for that.

Attachment 3631reverse energy config. for an x-bow.. possible to attain several tonnes per square inch, depending on the cams, and the leaves.

Bacon Wizard, nobody is actualy trying to dissuade you from building the next Warhead or Mechadon.
But we have seen so many promising people overreaching and stop before they got anywere. And that is what we want to avoid.

Also, you're welcome to sample the Bacon Explosion in the House of Chaos.

This sounds a really interesting project speaking as probably the only person with an active walker.
I would say "give it a go" as a final goal.
First I would say get a robot any robot. feather would be best and run it in the arena Scott bots make a simple kit that would do. you need this as walkers take years to get right when you do have experience of them. and it is easy to loose heart on the way. also you can learn what works and what doesn't with regards to weapons and armour. and get to meet the crazy crew!!
next a test bed this would be first a static model on a stand or small none combat robot for the purpose of developing the mechanism. it sounds a waist of time but it really is the short cut. and will save you years!
These things are complex, to give you some idea if you count everything, there are about 20 separate bits in one of Pilgrims feet alone! and there are eight of them, the legs are more complex and so the parts number is very much higher.
Don't be put of but do understand the length of the journey you will be taking!
If you manage this you will be Legend.