'ooking 'ood! I 'ike 'arcinus, 'ooks 'ery 'azzy!
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'ooking 'ood! I 'ike 'arcinus, 'ooks 'ery 'azzy!
'ooking really good!
UK Champs 2012
Event Report
So another championship comes and goes, and damn was it fun :proud:
Drumroll II was greatly improved compared to last year which, let's be honest, wouldn't be hard. I invested much more time into the finer details during the build and made sure everything was as secure as possible. Excusing the issue with the belt and the need to swap out a drive motor on the Sunday, I didn't need to fix any other part of the machine so it was time well spent.
It dominated its first fight with Wedgie and Push 'n' Shove but when attacking Wedgie later on, the belt got sliced on a part of Wedgie's flipper arm that had got bent up and it ended up wrapped around the motor pulley. I didn't have any spare since I left it too late to order (they're imported from America) so I had to resort to using longer thinner belts and fashioned a tensioner from an M6 bolt and needle-roller bearing (thanks Calum).
This allowed me to keep the drum running for each subsequent fight, but the belts weren't strong enough and I was breaking one each fight. But I got through the next two qualifiers, in part thanks to my opponents driving down the pit, and finished the day on 11 points. This was the third highest score in the league so Drumroll progressed.
It drew Cobalt in the 1-on-1s but wasn't a match for the speed and accuracy of Kenny's robot, and then became the third robot eliminated in the loser's mele. But by my reckoning, that left me in 8th place so I'm pretty happy by the improvement.
Apart from the belt issues, I had to replace a drive motor later on the Sunday (probably due to belt crud) and then the other one seemed to be having problems but I haven't yet looked at that in detail. The Scorpion XL also seemed to have a tendency to drift from the neutral position and I had to recalibrate it a couple of times to correct the deviation. Not sure if there's a problem with it but will need to look at it in more detail. Everything else though is still functioning, so a strip-down-and-clean session should be all that is needed to return it to full operation.
Carcinus also did reasonably well, considering my dad hadn't had a chance to practice driving the most recent incarnation. It scored 7 points in the qualifiers, four of which technically came from a knockout as Chuck didn't show up. It got pitted by Satanix in Q1 and beaten by 4 4 Toon in Q3, so didn't do enough to progress but it had a fair few run-outs in the whiteboards and the most damage it came away with was a couple of dents in the super-tough, high-tensile MDF top panel. It's not the most powerful of machines with regards to either drive or weapon, so can't be too disappointed with how it fared. And finishing joint 20th is better than Drumroll last year :lol:
Going forward: Drumroll still has about 2.4kg spare. Upgrades may include putting a little more armour on in places and getting a heavier weapon made. I was thinking about dropping down to 100mm wheels and altering the chassis shape to still allow invertibility as I felt the 120mm wheels made the robot a bit too fast and less stable, but having watched back a few of its fights, I like the speed of it and how it moves and looks, so I don't want to tamper with it too much. Just some fine-tuning and small modifications should do it.
Carcinus will probably remain unchanged, as it got a few comments about how it looks pretty good, but I might leave it for whiteboards and build something more effective for my dad to use in competition fights. But not 100% decided on anything yet, will just see what's what :)
Also got Cicatrix here to try and sort out the mysterious electrical bug, so got a bit of a robot repair line on the go:
[attachment=0:sfnk5kwk]Photo-0151.jpg[/attachment:sfnk5kwk]
Get that MDF bot finished!
what size drum axle is drumroll running?
17mm silver steel shaft from Technobots: http://www.technobotsonline.com/shafts- ... l-bar.html
Update
Gave Drumroll a post-champs service a couple of weeks ago. Got my replacement belts in the post the other day so the robot is now back to full functionality. Took a few pics of the damage while servicing it:
Cobalt wound in 6mm polycarb:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6617.jpg
The gouge from Wedgie's flipper plate that shredded the original belt:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6620.jpg
And this is what happens when you run a needle roller bearing and some M8 nuts on an M6 bolt as a make-shift tensioner:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6622.jpg
All that is fixed up now, and I've replaced the crud-filled old drive motors with 12V Argos drills (still going through GR01 gearboxes). So Drumroll and Carcinus are good to go again when needed.
With talk of a few beetleweights competing at the upcoming Robo Challenge Open Day, I've decided to get a beetleweight Drumroll running alongside my mini Turbine replica. Started sorting out a layout, the dimensions worked out to be exactly half of the featherweight:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...mdr_build1.jpg
Two 1000rpm 12V gearmotors from eBay seller 'virtualvillage' onto 60mm Banebots wheels with hex hubs. Power is an 11.1V 850mAh lipo battery and weapon motor is the one I originally bought for Paws. Can't remember exact specs but it's 1100kV so should make for a pretty fast drum. Weapon controller is a 40A Black Mantis ESC and I've got a couple of 10A Botbitz ESCs in the post for the drive motors.
The chassis has been cut and folded from 4mm HDPE, which might sound thin, but once everything's in place, the minimum armour thickness at any point will be 8mm. Should do a decent job of protecting everything:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...mdr_build4.jpg
And, finally for now, the chassis and parts next to Flatulence:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...mdr_build5.jpg
So I'll get a bit more work done on the beetleweights at the weekend hopefully. Until then, I need to source some tube for the drum, decide what to do for teeth, and work out what's going to attach where etc.
Just looking at those BotsBitz ESCs are they bi-directional?
Looking forward to MiniDrumroll, which I think you should call 'Flam' by the way since it's like a little drum roll....
What's the other BW? What happened to Cassius, Paws, and the 2 mini ones you made!?
Wheres the WoodenBot already!?
I'd call the mini drumroll 'Snare' myself...
Yeah PJ, the BotBitz controllers are bi-directional and can be used as a standard brushed ESC. Steve Martin, the Aussie guy who's done all the reprogramming work, is a friggin' genius! :shock:
Been trying to work out names for the mini Drumroll but wasn't having much luck. The most I'd got was either 'Splash' (after the type of cymbal) or 'Cowbell' since the chassis/armour is going to be black and white. But I really quite like Flam, so will probably go for that.
The Cassius replica got scrapped and the flipper arm from it is now part of Flatulence. I'd still like to make Paws but it's on the backburner for now. Of the two other ones (the lifter and the spinner), the disc assembly on the spinner was crap and the chassis wasn't big enough so it got scrapped, and the lifter pretty much became Flatulence.
I know I've gone through a few designs without actually finishing a fully functioning beetle, but that just seems to be what happens when building for a new weight class with unknown quantities. Hopefully I can get these two finished up for the RC Open Day though and after that, building BWs will be nice and easy.
The wooden robot is sitting waiting for attention too. Now Cicatrix is done and my two FWs are running again, it's just got to compete against the beetleweights for my attention. Plus, as usual, it's a case of too many crazy/stupid ideas, not enough time or motivation. The flipper robot is staring at me as well, demanding work be done to it :roll:
Aiming to have the basic 6WD MDF chassis running for the open day, then fit it with a weapon for Robots Live in Edinburgh.
Sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Update
Got my Botbitz ESCs today. Crazy fast service; paid for them on Saturday (12th), got dispatched Monday and arrived today. Absolutely no complaints about Botbitz or the Australian air mail service! These 10A ESCs are nice and compact, roughly the size of my thumb:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...lam_build6.jpg
The lipo battery will sit behind the drive motors and then these ESCs will fit behind them, tucked away right at the back. Haven't tested them out yet though so might give them a try on Flatulence just to see that moving, then transfer them across to Flam for a test of those 1000rpm motors. Managed a couple of hours in the Cave of Blunders tonight and got the drive and weapon motors mounted:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...lam_build7.jpg
Current weight is 444g, but I'll need to make up some aluminium re-inforcing sides as there's a little too much flex in the chassis for a spinner at the moment. Drum tube is ordered so just waiting for that to get sent. More pics of both robots to follow over the weekend.
Update
Test video of Flatulence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7swFoK_wYQ
Update
Made progress on the MDF robot today, so it's now up and running (happy PJ? :wink: )
Gave it a quick initial test drive and found that the middle non-powered wheels were generating unnecessary friction and making the robot difficult to turn, so dropped them and just gone for 4WD. Definitely doesn't look as cool though.
Some of the wiring started:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...s/DSCN6688.jpg
Everything in place:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...s/DSCN6691.jpg
I've slanted the front as well now, so that when it's the right way up it's shaped more like a tank. This was mainly because the bits that previously jutted out at the front were getting bashed and wrecked easily. The mod also allows a bit more freedom when driving over uneven surfaces.
Threw together a quick video as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bksDX2q64yM
Need to decide where to go with it now. The plan is to stick some sort of lifting weapon on the top, with the rough shape/overall look to be like some sort of agricultural machine (load-all/tractor thingy) but it's whether to try and get that ready for Edinburger or just make a steel/HDPE shell to go over it and enter it as an invertable rambot.
Also, need suggestions for a name. Thinking along the lines of something cheesy relating to wood but struggling to come up with anything decent.
that is brilliant!!
Are they 12v motors or 24v, and what are they actually running on ?
Cheers Haz. The motors are 12V and they're running on 19.2V, seems faster in person than it appears in the video. But it's a bit too fast to work properly off-road at the moment (just sends stones everywhere and is difficult to control) so might try dropping the voltage down to 12V.
you could call you could call it woodatrix or cicawood or even wooden cicatrix
Can call it that if you want, I don't see me building one anytime soon. But are you getting confused between myself and Jamie? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny
No, it just looks a lot like cicatrix, but wooden. :p
Yes Jamie, yes I am... Took your time though... :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Are those Victor ESCs in there? Looking to get the cheapest possible for BItzaWood.
victors are quite expensive
I think the 85a esc work out at about £40 each
http://www.botbitz.com/
I would imagen he had them as spares because he uses to run drumroll on a speed 900/victor combo.
Yeah got a pair of Victor 883's controlling the robot for now. Not really ideal if these robots are supposed to be destroyed easily! But they'll do for Edinburgh at least, will probably get some Botbitz controllers to run it eventually.
Got these 883's on eBay; the 885 I used to control the Speed 900 drum is still goosed from when it went up in flames at the 2011 champs. Haven't yet got round to getting it sent back for (possible) repair.
Update
Did some more work on the wooden robot this weekend. After spending many hours last night looking for inspiration for a name - a mission that covered Greek mythology, Norse gods and dinosaurs among other things - I've settled on Reaver. Nothing particularly exciting I know (the name comes from a race of cannibalistic humans in the Firefly TV series) but it'll do.
Anyway, started work on a lifting weapon to mount on top of the chassis. In complete contrast to the use of wood, the majority of the weapon is fabricated from 3mm steel plate and angle. To begin with, I welded two lengths of L-angle together to give me a U-channel, and added some hinging points for the lifting arm:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6697.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6700.jpg
I then dissected a car scissor jack for its threaded rod and nut. I welded the threaded rod on to a drill gearbox shaft, drilled and tapped two M8 holes in the side of the nut, and fitted a couple of bolts to hold some linkage arms:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6711.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6713.jpg
Also fitted a nylon block to support the end of the threaded rod, and then added some more lengths of steel angle to make up the lifting arms:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6715.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...d/DSCN6716.jpg
Still need to weld on some bits at the front to finish it off, such as forks and possibly small outriggers. Should be done for Edinburgh.
Total weight with all that steel plonked on top is 9.7kg, so just under 4kg left for adding bits and bobs. And although this was only meant as a quick and easy wooden class bot, I'm sorely tempted to rebuild the chassis out of Nylon to make it more permanent. I wasn't expecting to develop it to this degree but it'd be a nice whiteboard/non-spinner machine to have in the clan.
I may be missing a big trick here, but that doesn't look like it will self right.
Looks good though :).
I don't think it will either, at the moment.
Gonna re-drill the linkage holes in the arm closer to the pivot so that I can get more travel out of it. But if it's on its back, I only need to move it 90° before the back wheels get traction and I can force it back upright. I'll wait until I get it wired up and running first though before tinkering with it.
What did.you use to paint the name logo on carcinus?
sorry if i spelt it wrong
Sorry Archie, just saw your post. I just cut the name out of card and stuck it on the robot, then used that as a guide and painted over it with red paint.
Update
Been working down in England most days for the past couple of weeks so there has been little robot progress made and still got a fair bit to do for Robots Live on Sunday. I've got my mum's birthday lunch tomorrow and then leaving for Edinburgh at 6.30pm so it's going to be a last-minute rush to get the robots ready. Suppose it's a bizarre form of anti-karma to make up for the fact I had the robots ready with plenty of time to spare before the UK Champs.
Anyhoo, progress on Reaver. I made use of a bit more angle iron and 3mm steel plate (all recycled from wind turbines :proud: ) to add a front section to the lifting arm. The design wasn't how I'd originally envisaged it as it was quite rushed, but it looks fine and seems to work well enough:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...er_build27.jpg
Drilled a few more holes in the arms to allow different mounting points for the linkage arms, but I won't gain much more travel until I make new longer ones. Gave everything a coat of primer, still to decide what the paint scheme will be like:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...er_build29.jpg
The whole unit is relatively simple, but I'm quite proud of it. There aren't too many engineering faux pas by my standards and it's much more robust than the lifting mechanism I made in Kaizer (sorry Ceri!)
Here's the lifting mechanism in place on the chassis. The black box under the HDPE houses the Electronize switcher I'm using on the arm:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...er_build31.jpg
So thrown on a couple of bits of HDPE to provide some protection, and painted the chassis black. The HDPE is just temporary; will sort something more permanent after the weekend.
The MDF is already showing signs of wear though, and I doubt it will last past the event. Definitely going to make a chassis out of Nylon though, as the robot is super-fast and will be a good non-spinner robot to have.
Unfortunately when I was testing it tonight, I took the arm down to the bottom of its travel and then accidentally over-did it, jamming it tight against the chassis. After freeing it, I tried to move it up, but the Electronize switcher has stopped working. It still clicks (just one relay I think though) but there's absolutely no movement from the motor. Haven't had a proper look at it yet but will need to sort something for Edinburgh. Might have a back-up Electronize ESC to put in it, but I think a Botbitz 25A will be on the order list.
On the plus side, when it was working, it was lifting featherweights without much sign of strain; just need to make up some outriggers to stop it tipping forward. But for Edinburgh, LEDs, bottom covers, failsafes and paint are next on the list!
robot looks very professional Jamie well done
i meant was it watercolour, fence paint, acrylic or oil based like explosion and eruption?
it will be spray paint you can buy from b and q i imagine
that lifter mech looks really beefy should hold up pretty good whats the weight? bet you have a few kilos at least
There's no paint on Explosion, it's black because of the HDPE and the stripes are done from hazard tape :) We've used 'Gloss Super' spray paint on Eruption and Annihilation from B&Q.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie2000
Very nice Jamie. If you have some weight spare you could look into some wheel protection. Should be a pretty tough little thing by the looks of it.
By the way, we had an Electronize go on us too. Also powering a lifter oddly enough. Works in one direction, and the relay clicks in the other, but nothing happens. We contacted Electronize but got no response.
Having gone through lots of trouble, we modded it with two automotive relays, only to find the fault wasn't in the relay anyway. :?
Ah nice hazard taping job
ive broken electronizes before something worth checking if you have already, inspect all of the circuit board tracks sometimes these can fail solved mine by resoldering ....have to say would only expect to see this after seeing the magic smoke
we had the same problem with our lifting jamming shut, I put some limit switches in and never had that problem again.
Robots Live Event Report
Rushed to get Reaver finished on the Saturday evening but it was a hotch-potch of ill-fitting HDPE coverings and looked, in general, rubbish. Never got a chance to solve the lifter issue either so with things going poorly I gave up and just decided to drive Drumroll in the FW fights.
Got to the event and realised that, in my rush to get on the road on Saturday, I'd forgotten to pack a bunch of usual tools. Seems I wasn't the only one though, but nothing was as bad as the Big Nipper team bringing Little Flipper 3 but forgetting to bring its armour :rofl:
I decided I wasn't going to rush around trying to film every fight while competing at the same time so I can't remember much of the fights, but Carcinus ran in all three of them and didn't end up in the pit as often as usual.
Drumroll ran in the first fight, but towards the end the Scorpion XL seemed to be drifting from its calibrated setting and the flip function seemed to only work occasionally (two issues I first became aware of during the later stages of the UK Champs) so I may have to send that off to get looked at. The insides of the bot also smelled a bit...err...crispy by the end and although I don't think anything's blown I decided to not use it again.
So decided to play musical batteries and get Reaver running (minus lifter) for the second fight. Plus points; it's very nippy, as I expected, although the Victor controllers weren't as precise as I thought the would be. Still better than Electronizes but I think I'm just too used to Scorpion XLs now.
After about a minute it drove over some one and flipped itself, but got righted later on. However towards the end of the fight after several ramming attacks, the MDF gave in and the front motors decided to stray a little:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...2/DSCN6760.jpg
No surprise in hindsight as it was splitting everywhere and had screws stuck through it all over the place. So that will be getting binned and replaced with plastic - sorry PJ :P
Third fight I drove Cicatrix as it had been sitting doing nothing for most of the day with Tony busy with Eric Jr. Glad to report that it drove very nicely and didn't seem to have any problems with the Scorpion XL, although against Tiny Toon and Satanix it seemed somewhat underpowered. But it seemed to drift well and should be good when the drum pod is made.
So not a particularly strong event for the robots, but meles have never been our fort. It was enjoyable nonetheless.
The plan now is to take a bit of a break from the bots, as almost every weekend since February has been taken up with getting them ready for the champs/Edinburgh. Will be turning my attention to other things just for a bit of a scenery change until the next event rolls around (possibly MMM, still not 100% sure on it yet)
Mods-wise, Carcinus will be getting a new HDPE top to replace the current MDF one, and Reaver will be getting a new chassis from Nylon. Drumroll just needs its XL looked at and somepoint down the line I'll work on salvaging the ring-teeth from the old drum and getting a new balanced one made. Until then, things will probably be a bit quiet. I'm sure less of my build diary ramblings will be no bad thing anyway :lol:
And just to answer a few of the posts I missed before the event:
Can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it's a water-based enamel. They're small tubs I get out of Wilkinson for about £3 and it's the same stuff I used to paint the drum on Drumroll.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie2000
Weighed it at the event and it was 11.2kg, so 2.4kg spare. A lot of that will be eaten up by the Nylon so it will certainly be close to the limit. The entire lifting arm mechanism is about 4.6kg.Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_fling
I'm undecided about wheel protection. The plan is to have Reaver as a non-spinner battle bot so the chances of losing my wheels are reduced, plus I think exposed ones look better. The original idea was also to base the robot roughly on a telehandler (an agricultural machine) which doesn't have covered wheels, although the design has deviated from that a bit :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Relentless
Yeah I was thinking about limit switches. I normally just like to judge it by eye, but get the feeling with this lifter that switches may be no bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard Time
Still need to look at the Electronize and its circuits/connectors to see if there are any obvious problems.
I'll get that done one of these days....Quote:
Originally Posted by k_c_r
Was good to see it working well though, it was never going to be a world-beater with 4 Argos drills but as far 4WD drill motor driven bots go I thought it looked pretty good. In that video it seems a lot quicker than a lot of the robots out there using similar setups.
With your dads driving, I think you could fit a device to Carcinus which automatically kills the other robot as soon as it touches it and it still wouldn't win :roll: Theres just to much spinning around in circles! :lol:
:( I need to decide what I'm going to do with BitzaWood since no one wants to play with me :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie