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Black Panthers drive motors are inferior. Itll accelerate poorly. This isnt a long-run; its a small arena.
Plan: Flip it over, then cut it up while its self-righting. The weapon should cut through it like steak despite the armors strength.
Ill add the 1.5 cm thick ablative Ali armor to the top as if that werent already enough to win.
http://home.earthlink.net/~schuchfolk/vgertopmod.jpghttp://home.earthlink.net/~schuchfolk/vgertopmod.jpg
I agree with Nick on the drive, V Ger will out run it, but I dont see V Ger flipping anything with that motor and low reduction on that huge flipping arm...
I spose I could just go full out on the axe and try and do shock damage to the innards
It would be a slow lift up instead of a WBC-style mega-flip. Think Battlerat-style, but theres still enough power to flip. I couldve fit proper pneumatics for the lifter, but I wanted it to have more than 180* range.
What motor are you using Nick, because unless its something with a good 50:1 gearing behind it, you wont be lifting anything over. Look the leverage points you have, its all negative leverage and your going to be killing the motor to get it to lift a 10kg brick with your low gearing shown in the render.
Maybe Ive missed something, but whats the specifics on this lifter?
After that action packed Round 1, lets hope Round 2 delivers more of the same - WX 6.0 (with its concave scoop) and The Doomsday Project aim to do so!
3, 2, 1 - ACTIVATE!
WX 6.0 ran head on at The Doomsday Project, who on the other hand, tried to reach the second seeds side! However, WX 6.0s skid steering allowed it to whip round and end up in TDPs side, and shove it along into the west wall with a thud! But when this happened, it slid a little up the sloped skirts, and TDP turned to try and catch it! Fortunately, WX 6.0 reversed off - finding itself face to face with TDP, it charged head on into the disc, knocked upwards but slowing it! Coming back down, it charged the flywheel again - not stopping it, it did slow it some more! The Hardox scoop withstood a third ram which left TDPs flywheel stalled enough for WX 6.0 to shove! Despite TDP fighting back, the 2nd seed successfully shoved it backwards, into the north wall and then along into the pit release - but now it couldnt get TDP around to shove it down the pit! WX 6.0 did a reverse swerve to get to its opponents side - TDP began spinning its disc and turned around to try and cause some damage, but this proved to be a mistake, as when WX 6.0 hit its side, it was able to push it in the direction of the pit! But they turned a little and missed, slamming back into the west wall!
WX 6.0 again skidded around to shove The Doomsday Project, ramming it in the flywheel again as TDP attempted to attack again! It attacked again as TDP turned again, and found itself at a front corner, shifting around to TDPs side! As the open pit closed, WX 6.0 slammed TDP into the east wall, again shifting to ram and stall the flywheel! It got two rams in, which the scoop continued to withstand! At this point, TDP finally struck the side of WX 6.0, but the flywheel wasnt spinning fast enough to do any more than scratch, and WX 6.0 soon rammed it hard again to bring its speed down, before pushing it back into the pit release! Squeezing into the gap between The Doomsday Project and the wall, the second seed shoved its victim along the north wall, and had soon condemned the unseeded robot to the pit!
CEASE!
WX 6.0 GOES THROUGH TO THE HEAT FINAL!
Who gets that last place in the last heat final - Heir To Black Panther IV or VGer?
3, 2, 1 - ACTIVATE!
Heir To Black Panther IV and VGer both came on the attack, VGer turning around to bring its rear lifter into play! But as it did this, HTBP4 was able to run parallel to it and just slip its front underneath - lifting one side of VGer upward, it brought down its axe into the 15mm aluminium armour on top, making some dents, before backing off and letting VGer down! VGer chased HTBP4 in reverse, and as the 18th seed came for it, they hit front-to-rear! Both had low lifters, but as they strained against each other, HTBP4s spatula went underneath and it lifted VGer into the air! VGers front flywheel scraped the ground and it skimmed away, with HTBP4 following it! As they came together again, VGers weapon scraped HTBP4s side and left a ugly cut! With HTBP4 sent off course by the blow, VGer reversed at it, knocking the side but not getting past the skirt! HTBP4 took the oppotunity to get under VGers side again, lifting it and mercilessly axing the aluminium once again, making new dents and deepening old ones!
When it initiated its hit and run tactic again, Heir To Black Panther IV found itself being blocked by the wall, and before it could escape, it took a front glance from VGer! After reversing away from the dangerous disc, HTBP4 came back on the offensive, and as VGer tried unsuccessfully to use its lifter again, HTBP4 got back under the side and axed away, while carrying VGer to the arena disc - it didnt have to run when VGer went flying away from the disc with a new wound, its own disc hitting the floor so it bounced some more, and HTBP4 could get back underneath and pin it in a corner, and continue its axe work on the helpless VGer! After a pin of about 20 seconds, the 18th seed moved off, leaving VGer to come after it, undaunted by the varying wounds in its top! It didnt have long before HTBP4 came back into its side, just missing the flywheel and lifting VGer so it could axe again, while turning VGer around in a circle! Its next move was to ram VGer into a wall and run away, as VGer skimmed off again due to its flywheel! Before it could recover, HTBP4 again rammed it in the side and axed the aluminium on top, which was now weakening a little after the punishment it had sustained! Once again, VGer found itself being slammed against a wall once HTBP4 was finished with it! This time, as it stabilised on the floor and HTBP4 came to attack it again, it was able to attack its opponent with a blow to the front with its disc! After another hit on the side, VGer turned its lifter to HTBP4s side and began fighting against the skirt, but failed to get underneath! Eventually, HTBP4 slipped out of its opponents grasp and slammed into the side again!
With its lifter a bit battered after two hits from VGers weapon, Heir To Black Panther IV lifted its victim a little slower, but it was still able to inflict punishment with its tanto blade, while carrying VGer around the arena until they reached the arena disc! Again VGer found itself on a wild ride away from the disc, its own weapon only glancing the floor but still bouncing it a bit! HTBP4 went on the attack but the disc knocked it in the side! Unfortunately, this only bought VGer some time as HTBP4 was back on track before it had fully stabilised, and again it found itself being rammed towards the empty southwest corner - but as it went, its flywheel touched the wall and it bounced away from HTBP4 and went cartwheeling across the floor! HTBP4 successfully caught it and buffeted it into the corner, and began axing away, its axe not doing quite so much damage as gas was beginning to run low! So HTBP4 hit VGer a bit less in the fifteen second pin, but propped it up against the wall with its lifter before moving off! VGer was able to use its lifter to turn itself over - unfortunately, rather than touching the floor, it touched the attacking HTBP4, who landed another axe blow and rammed it back towards the arena disc, so once again VGer flew! It began spinning its flywheel again as Heir To Black Panther IV approached, and managed to glance it as time ran out! It would go to the judges!
CEASE!
Aggression: HTBP4 - 7, VGer - 3 (HTBP4 was more aggressive)
Damage: HTBP4 - 5, VGer - 5 (HTBP4 axed VGer a lot but it was mainly superficial, while VGer got in less flywheel hits but damaged HTBP4s lifter a little)
Strategy: HTBP4 - 7, VGer - 3 (HTBP4s hit and run strategy was more simple than VGers flip and attack strategy, but much more successful)
Control: HTBP4 - 5, VGer - 5 (equal control here)
Style: HTBP4 - 6, VGer - 4 (VGers flywheel hits were more stylish but less frequent than HTBP4s axing and lifting)
Dominance: HTBP4 - 8, VGer - 2 (HTBP4 was in control for most of the battle)
Final Score: Heir To Black Panther IV - 38, VGer - 22
HEIR TO BLACK PANTHER IV GOES THROUGH TO THE HEAT FINAL!
Heat P Final:
WX 6.0 (2) vs Heir To Black Panther IV (18)
I am the fluke master
Definatly a case for hit and run, i dont know how good the armour is but im definatly faster than it, use the cylinder setup in relation to how easily i get get under it compared to how thick the top armour is.
Yep, HTBP is around 8mph faster IIRC. But that means that I am far more controllable.
Im going to stick the normal scoop on and just try to catch it by outmaneuvering and then dump it into the pit.
The final heat final is here, and then we can crack on with the semis! But will WX 6.0 (with a normal scoop) or Heir To Black Panther IV get there?
3, 2, 1 - ACTIVATE!
WX 6.0 and Heir To Black Panther IV immediately started up and ran at each other, then twisted to attack each others sides! As they did so, they became parallel, and after a few moments of struggling, HTBP4s spatula went under WX 6.0s high clearance and lifted it! Turning to get properly under the 2nd seed, HTBP4 proceeded to send its axe into the top, landing four powerful blows before backing off and allowing WX 6.0 to escape! As HTBP4 charged in, WX 6.0 managed to dodge, run into HTBP4s rear and slam it hard into the wall! Unfortunately, HTBP4s double headed axe was able to cause damage with WX 6.0 behind it, and it did so! After taking a few blows, WX 6.0 swerved away, and as HTBP4 turned to catch it, it was caught side on and pinned against the wall again - but WX 6.0 couldnt get it into the pit from there! So again it backed off, and the 18th seed ran away before turning around to face the advancing WX 6.0! As they came together, HTBP4 lifted its lifter as WX 6.0 ran over it, causing the 2nd seed to tilt, but come back down on its wheels - unfortunately, this allowed HTBP4 to attack from the rear and push WX 6.0 into the wall while it axed the top again!
After the titanium armour on top of WX 6.0 took some more dents, Heir To Black Panther IV backed off again, and again WX 6.0 ran away before it could attack again! Finding itself chased by HTBP4, WX 6.0 spun around and ran into HTBP4s side again, this time shoving it along into the arena disc! WX 6.0 successfully caught HTBP4 as it was deflected by the disc, and immediately took it on a long run to the pit release! As in its last fight, it was now struggling to get into a position where it could send its opponent to the pit, so it shifted to try and get to the rear, which allowed HTBP4 to make a break for freedom! WX 6.0 ran after its intended victim but couldnt catch up, and the two robots ran around humourously until the pit had closed! Then HTBP4 turned on WX 6.0 again, and they became parallel again, which allowed HTBP4 to again lift WX 6.0, turning around to get behind it and pinning it against the north wall while the axe did its job! When it was finally released again, WX 6.0 was sporting more ugly wounds in its top! It chased down HTBP4, who came towards it to attack, and with a well timed swerve, WX 6.0 found itself side on to HTBP4 and able to shove it back into the pit release! Shoving hard at a corner of HTBP4 and managing to keep hold of the 18th seed, WX 6.0 was finally able to take Heir To Black Panther IV on a path to the open pit, and land itself a place in the series semi finals!
CEASE!
WX 6.0 GOES THROUGH TO THE SERIES SEMI FINALS!
Finally, we have our sixteen VFT6 semifinalists. Lets remind ourselves who they are:
*WX 6.0, entered by Andy Jackson, seeded 2nd, beat Little Sister, X Terminator, The Doomsday Project and Heir To Black Panther IV!
*MANIC MONSOON, entered by Daniel Stickler, seeded 3rd, beat Cholera, Slammer IV, Growling Storm 2.5 and Whirligig 4.0!
*TEMPEST EVIL-ER-UTION, entered by Frank Goacher, seeded 5th, beat Bender, MOE, Not Another Pushover 2 and Hacked Off Ha-ka!
*NSBFR-X, entered by Frank Goacher, seeded 10th, beat Forklifts Revenge, Hassocks Hog 2, Sonic Boom and Black Chalkie Beard!
*PSYCLONE, entered by Andy Jackson, seeded 17th, beat Pulveriser, Voltronic, Biohazard and The Disc 4!
*DERVISH V/, entered by Daniel Stickler, seeded 22nd, beat Total B*****d, Wind Chiller, Scimiter and Mega Masher 2!
*HYPERTENSION MK2, entered by Matty Fowler, seeded 24th, beat Tazbot, TIRTASM, No Close Shave 2 and Mass Disctruction Ultimate 3.1!
*ACHILLES, entered by Alex Holt, seeded 25th, beat Chip, Hefty Kick In The Balls, Juggerbee 3.0 and SOR 3.5!
*WEDGE DEVOLUTION, entered by Steven McGregor, seeded 27th, beat Blizzard, Happy Birthday Party Pooper, Wedga Revo and Glasgow Kiss!
*FIRESTORM V, entered by Frank Goacher, beat Annoying Box Rush, Mr Nasty, Disconstructor and Forcepower Turbo!
*MOTHER OF ALL BRICKS 2, entered by Aaron Knight, beat Terrorhurtz, Wrecktangle, Typhoon 2 and Killotine Evo!
*ORKA MK3, entered by Chris Mason, beat Cuffy, Pink Panther, Disco 5 and Windiest Killer Just Got Windier!
*SEGGY THE THIRD, entered by Dave Sheppard, beat Wheely Pure Evil 2, Deep Impact 2, Baldur and Revenge Of The Revenge Of The Bludgeonator!
*STORM 2, entered by Matt MacDonald, beat Constrictor, In-terror-fied, Dantomkia and The Crashing Bore!
*STRATOSFEAR, entered by Scott Anderson, beat Chaos 2, Vlad the Impaler 2, Angel Of The Abyss and Ankle Biter the Second!
*THE ULTIMATE WEDGE, entered by Aaron Knight, beat Dallas, Nightmare, Disco Dancer 2.5 and Push-Ish!
So here are the semifinal lineups!
SEMI FINAL 1
Manic Monsoon (3) vs Achilles (25)
Tempest Evil-er-ution (5) vs Wedge Devolution (27)
Psyclone (17) vs Seggy The Third
Orka Mk3 vs Storm 2
SEMI FINAL 2
WX 6.0 (2) vs The Ultimate Wedge
NSBFR-X (10) vs Stratosfear
Dervish V/ (22) vs Hypertension Mk2 (24)
Firestorm V vs Mother Of All Bricks 2
Semifinalists, send your tactics in!
Psyclone is a spinner right.
*heads off to find stats*
Im not sure either to stick the passive or the active wedge onto Seggy yet, but my tactics will be to drive at it and it should knock itself out with the force when it hits the wedge. No details on chassis, so I assume everything is bolted onto the base plate, so Active wedge it is, one hit from me and it should rip itself apart.
The sooner I can get Storm 2 upside down the better. Once hes upside down, his pushing will be hindered...then I can ram him into walls, the disc thingy, the pit...anything.
OK. Thats it. Andys made the SWATbots hit list :lame:. (awesome duels BTW, Richie - WB :))
SEMI-FINAL 1
ROUND 1
1) Achilles (25) VS Manic Monsoon (3)
Could be real close here - if Alex can get a grip, Achillesll win. If Dan can stick to the sides, Monsoonll win
2) Tempest Evil-er-oution (5) VS WEDGE DEVOLUTION (27)
Possibly my last chance for a VFT title and I get the former AJWars champ. Luverly :S. Tactics are to smash it into the walls before it can rev up (hopefully, the Hardox will hold up if I cant do this) and then try and cast it into the Pit.
3) Psyclone (17) VS Seggy the Third
Possibly Andy to slowly wear the interchangeable bot down
4) Orka Mk 4 VS Storm 2
Despite a valient effort, the whale gets outpushed by the RW World Champ
Storm 2s Tactics:
Against Orka Mk 4, I should be able to outpush it easily with greater force, I should be able to get under the front easily with no problem, and then bring Orka Mk 4 to the pit and drop it down, if I can get a side attack on it, this makes the job easier, either way, I should quickly and easily be able to get it down the pit. Should be interesting here.
Hypo Mk 2s tactics.
CHARGE! :proud: Im not worried about the drum, as they have no chance of damaging the Hardox any more than scrathces. They cant push me around to get me in the pit either, unless they flip me in. Therefore, tactics are to always charge! Try to keep at the end unoccupied by the pit and throw them around. If and when w e get a chance to attack before they spin up, then ram them into the button and get them down it. Dont waste flips. Only flip if we have a chance of gettign them over. As for the other 7 fights, the winners are below:
Achilles
Tempest
Seggy
Orka
WX
Stratos-Fear
MOAB2
Tactics will be to go with the 6 CM teeth for stability, and go for side attacks to try and shock kill Wedge Devo, seeing I wont get through the armour. Other than that, keep spinning so he cant come close, and stay away from the pit area and walls.
This is only the MK3 version of Orka.
Sorry I had read the match-up from Steves predictions. lol
Had it BEEN the MK4, I may have been slightly more confident. MK3 doesnt have anything that can grapple or hold.
I been thinking, that I will do down the passive wedge direction, and if there was an active weapon rule, I believe the wedge has a little pointless flail inbedded within it:proud:
My American style Roleplay (I need practise):
As soon as active is sounded, drive straight at it, no holding back, if Im going out, I want it to be in glory. Hopefully once hit, the intial hit shouldnt be so bad, then keep on top of it, bulling it, eventally pitting it if the polycarbonate chassis holds out.
SEMI FINAL 2
WX 6.0 (2) vs The Ultimate Wedge
Wedge, wedge, wedge, push, push, push, flip, flip. Any of those combinations will do.
Firestorm V vs Mother Of All Bricks 2
Ram into the sides and back of Firestorm and and show it the 4 walls of the arena or the bottom of the pit!
Psyclone (17) vs Seggy The Third
I€™m going to keep the spinner on low power through the majority of the match, so that I can cause some damage but also I wont get shocked out or bounced around a lot. Hopefully with this tactic I can cause some damage and stay safe. If I€™m running behind towards the end of the match I€™ll crank up to full power and do some smashing.
Sorry about the chassis thing. But maybe if there were some rules stating I would need to include a chassis, thing would be clearer. Just an idea€¦ :wink:
(This isn€™t aimed at Richard by the way, I mean generally for all of us. The rules for stats the previous council decided on were very basic and poor IMO)
*End Rant*
WX 6.0 (2) vs The Ultimate Wedge
I don€™t know what the difference in power is between the LEM130€™s and LEM200€™s but I presume it€™s quite a bit. The only thing I can think of doing it so put the scoop on and the skirts on the other sides. The skirts should hopefully prevent The Ultimate Wedge getting under so it cannot ram or flip. I€™ll use the scoop hoping it will give me the heavier front end and therefore a better chance of getting under if it€™s a head to head ram.
Well, looks like my two robots are going to be going out at this stage. A great series so far Mr. S and I hope there will be another series in the future!
If you felt that way Andy, maybe you could have suggested the chasis thing? Anyway, theres no rule against adding more info than the writer wants, is there.
Not really, if I thought it was needed I would have included it.
Considering your shape, you pretty much have to stick everything to the base anyways. You could stick a chasis in, but it would still be attached to the base and not much else, so its a waste of weight really.
If there was one I guess it would just be support for the shell. Anyway, chassis or not Im gonna lose. :P
In a cone spinner, the chasis cant really support the shell without interfering with the weapon. Least I dont think so.
True, looking at some of the pictures of Typhoon in URR today, it looks like everything is bolted onto a metal base plate, with the centre shaft going up to spin the shell. This could be the case with Psyclone, but when you have the self-righting method to off-set everything.
Bad Aaron! No Aaron points your you.
quote:
What motor are you using Nick, because unless its something with a good 50:1 gearing behind it, you wont be lifting anything over. Look the leverage points you have, its all negative leverage and your going to be killing the motor to get it to lift a 10kg brick with your low gearing shown in the render.
Okay. Now that youve gotten me out of the tourny,
1)It doesnt lift an entire 100kg robot at any time, not even when self-righting. Youll note that when self-righting, the point of leverage makes the job much easier, since the robots entire hull will have a center of gravity behind the fulcrum and lifting bar. So its really just repositioning most of the mass, not lifting.
2) Negative leverage... Its equally easy to lift to the horizantal as it is to lift the 12-ish degrees above the horizantal anyway, if we were picking the whole opponent up with the arm. WE ARENT.
That robot will revolve on its own axis, on the side not under the arm. It will start at the horizantal, not below. So no ill effects. Also note that many robots like No Tolerance and Battlerat work just fine, when their electric, similarly-powered lifters are below the horizantal on the tip.
Not to mention that most nearly every pneumatic flipper would be hampered by this interpretation of physics.
3) The distance of the flipper: Its not as far as it looks. The robot is relatively small.
4) The gearing is 5:1. Obviously itll waste a lot of power still, but itll work. I dont care. I can easily halve its ratio if youre going to be a ninny about it.
I dont have numerical answers to your assertion, but I am absolutely sure the lifter would work. I would never put a mechanically unsound weapon in my design. Plenty of electric lifters with similar setups have worked, so all-in-all I think youre just being a nitpick that I shouldve used a pneumatic system instead of electric. Yes, I know. I was going to, but got lazy. Sorry.
I was unable to find my internal information for BattleRat or No Tolerence. But I still firmly believe they would have a large amount of gearing. Im not saying that just because I build robots, that my word is like laws, but, On our heavyweight robot Vertex, we have a selfrighting arm that lies across the robot to flip it over. We originally tested two torqey motors on 24v with a total reduction of 189:1 and during selrighting, the robot would still struggle to flip over and was continously breaking hardened steel gears.
Next we tried a winch motor with a custom worm reduction to make a linear actuator. The reduction around around 250:1-300:1. This failed and we ended up cooking a good motor.
The selfrighting arm is around 450mm-500mm long and we are still yet to come up with a way to get it to work with out breaking something.
Maybe you should really do some maths on the setup you have, because Im sure if you ask a few builders on any of the robotics forums, youll get a very similar answer as what Im telling you. 5:1 reduction on an S28-300 in a heavyweight with a 500mm plus lifting arm, will not work for lifting 50kg+.
You can blame me for your loss if it makes you feel better. No skin of my nose though.
I was joking about the blame-game. That never had anything to do with the loss. Clever how you turned it around on me like that though.
But dont mind if I ask what the specifications of the motors youre using are. And when self righting, does your robot support almost all of its mass on the arm, far from the axle? If its a big symmetrical box with a lot of mass opposite the lifting end, youd be dealing with a much larger load than Im dealing with.
Im not interested in how to fix your situation. Obviously, Im not good advice on that at all, and Id probably lose you $3000 more on motors before you got any of my ideas working. (Clutch?) Im just curious how mechanically similar your situation is to mine.
I think the gearing is the only issue you have any point with, and I agree. I would fix the gears in a heartbeat. Its really easy to incorporate into the design. 250:1 is going a mite overboard, but if VGer were ever competing again, I would run it five times slower than currently at least. It wastes too much power in the current setup.
Just to show everybody that now the email notification is back online, I got my activation key and my normal profile is back on!
A big thank you to MHF, Dave and AJ for letting me use the THDC profile over the past month.
My exams are now over, so hopefully I can start the semifinals soon.
*Does wooty dance*
WB Rich:)
Welcome back online, Mr Southworth :). Now we can finally get my 6th title loss out the way :proud:
I wish to place a bet on all the guilt trips resulting in Mr McGs first win:proud:
WELCOME BACK RICHARD :)
Welcome Back Richards account! I cant wait for the semis. :)
Hello hello hello and welcome to QI *tape stops*
Soz, wrong tape
*Inserts new tape*
Welcome back Richard on your account.
Now the wait is on till March 10.
Whats happening on March 10, Dave?
Do you know how your exams went, Rich? In any case, good luck.
I got into Science/Commerce at the University of Western Australia (need a final score in the top 8.5% of the state to get in, so Im bloody happy :rofl:). Do you know what you were aiming to do after high school, or are you as undecided as I was?
Im doing Science/Commerce because its exactly what I did at school- if I chose them then, Ill choose them again now. Im interested in becoming a Rocket Scientist (:rofl:) so my course will set me up for that well.
Anyway, good luck!
I think my exams went OK, Tom, but Ill need to wait until March to find out my results. Ill also be going into university after college, to study Zoology.
Good luck with your course, Tom!