Theres no way youll fit all that into those dimensions :proud: and knowing the ground clearance beneath the skirts would help. Otherwise, it actually looks good, there could perhaps be more detail but then youd be going into essay territory.
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Theres no way youll fit all that into those dimensions :proud: and knowing the ground clearance beneath the skirts would help. Otherwise, it actually looks good, there could perhaps be more detail but then youd be going into essay territory.
Brutalis 1.0
Many people do not understand how large heavyweight robots actually are. I would possibly double the size of the dimensions you have given. Robots and vapourbots are getting smaller and smaller, but for this design you€™ll need bigger. I€™d suggest more along the lines of 80cm x 80cm x 25cm. That might even be pushing it as Nitrogen canisters are pretty large.
Are you looking to do some serious pushing? If so, then your drive train is fine, however you may have to make compromises elsewhere. If you just want a drive to get you around and do some ramming, just go for 2x S28-400€™s. I could suggest giving wheel dimensions and more detailed battery stats, but for now you€™re fine. Your 0mm ground clearance is fine, however please state how much clearance is behind the skirts, which I would suggest a minimum of 6mm.
Hardox is heavy stuff, for this purpose I€™d suggest around 4mm. For your flipper, you€™ll need to give a few details. First of all, what hinge is your flipper - rear hinged (like Chaos 2) or front hinged (like Firestorm)? How much gas do you have on board? What size are the rams operating the flipper? Look at fellow high-pressure flipper vapourbots to get an understanding.
But you€™ve made a good start with the basics. I€™ll let you fix that stuff up first.
nitrogen is 3000psi, i dont know if it can be regulated as its so cold, im sure it can thou
Does anyone remember a great lightweight material thats really strong called Titanium? dont just use hardox theyre vapourbots be creative
What about mine?
Name: Armory
Dimensions: 75cm x 40cm x 15cm
Shape: Rectangle
Colour: Blue on top, with yellow on all the sides.
Drive: 4x NPC-T64 motors powered by 2 Odyssey PC-545 12V batteries.
Speed: 15mph
Ground Clearance: 0.01mm all around
Armour: 5mm Titanium
Weapon: Pneumatic spike that automatically fires, like 101s
Srimech: Invertible
now updated:
Drive: 2x NPC-T64 motors powered by 1 Odyssey PC-545 12V battery.
Srimech: A Mag Snapper with a 20 cm long pole.
You will find that spikes on the whole dont damage unless you are hugging the other machine in a grip.
I would argue that a bit - moving spikes are pretty ineffectual because they end up just pushing the robot away as the armour is stronger that their traction.
On the other hand, just plain static spikes can be very useful particularly where they are used to grip an opponent in some way like on tornado or big brother.
In general though unless you come up with some novel take on them, I cant see a pnuematic spike ever being successful in a vapour.
Its all about application. I remember a few years ago, I was at the local firing range (AKA my mates place) an we were shooting PC HDDs with a .243 rifle, blasting 5-8mm holes straight through them without even knocking them over.
I think the best way to be successful with a spike is to get the velocity way up there. That requires a fair bit of thinking with pneumatics though.
Pain/Judge Mech had a spike weapon that could cause damage, but as far as I know its either banned or frowned upon in the current rules. Other weapons are better than pneumatic spikes, Tornado used one in the fourth wars but I think the fixed spikes on its frame actually did more damage by ramming than the active one did.
While Im here and dispensing useless advice, are there any major problems with the new version of Gabriel?
Gabriel II
WEIGHT: 100kgs
DIMENSIONS: 105 x 80 x 35 cm
SHAPE: Elongated triangular pyramid with steep rear and very shallow front
COLOUR: Largely yellow, with a red and yellow striped flipper and black shapes on each side. Kind of like No Objections in a Gabriel shape.
DRIVE: 2 C40-300 Magmotors driving 2 inner wheels with Vulkalon treads for grip, running off 4 NiCd packs at 24v
SPEED: 14mph average, 20mph max
GROUND CLEARANCE: 0 at front due to spring hinged nose, rising to 6mm at rear
ARMOUR: 3mm aluminium baseplate, with composite 5mm titanium (4mm hardox in critical areas) and 5mm HDPE on the rest of the body.
WEAPONS: A high pressure pneumatic front hinged flipper, consisting of the front edge of the body, running from 2 2kg CO2 tanks and a hydraulic ram giving 25 flips in a match and capable of flipping 100kgs easily and lifting several times more than that. Also has hardened tool steel spikes located on either side of the front point, and it can spin in place to try and do damage with these.
SRIMECH: Via weapon. The back has spikes to prevent stranding
NOTES: Components shock mounted for protection vs. spinners and impacts. The main changes from the previous Gabriel, aside from the colouring and armour, are that it is now slightly wider and quite a bit lower, giving a lower centre of gravity and making it easier to get other robots on the flipper, and the drive has been upgraded. To make room for the changes, the gas capacity has been reduced and the armour made slightly thinner.
STRENGTHS: Difficult to get a grip on due to the shape, low centre of gravity
WEAKNESSES: Awkward shape for pushing with
(Message edited by joeychevron on March 20, 2008)
One way to use a co2 spike is to get some type of gripping arms to actually grip the other machine into place when you fire the spike, so the spikes energy is used as a spike not as a ram.
Armory
Make it a bit taller and wider. A rectangle is a 2D shape€¦
Nice to see some variation in the motor and battery department, but I€™m not that familiar with that set-up. Maybe someone else can help, but I would personally change to Magmotors or Lynch motors€¦ 1.4hp for 10kgs of motors doesn€™t look like a good power to weight ratio to me. Correct me if I€™m wrong but I believe the batteries you mention are Hawker Odyssey, which are SLA. I€™d look for some much lighter NiCad or NiMH.
The clearance is very poor. 1mm is bad, but 0.01 of a millimetre? That is, I€™m afraid, very bad. But as you are new, I€™ll let you off. :wink: High ground clearance is not a bad thing to have by any means, in fact, it has many positives. If you are concerned though, add some skirts. But I would times your ground clearance by 1000, personally. It takes something just a fraction of a millimetre to get under your current clearance and you will be beached on it. Wheels off the floor, gone.
5mm Titanium is pretty thin, add a bit more to it or €œlaminate€ it with polycarbonate or HDPE. Or if you€™re not bothered about Craig€™s call for variation, then use Hardox, which is significantly lighter, but also stronger. For the spike you€™ll need to say what its made of, what size ram powers it, what gas you are using, how much gas is stored, what pressure you are running at etc€¦
I€™m also not familiar with the term €œMag Snapper€Â€¦ could you expand on this, please?
Gabriel II
I€™m not sure on the existence of C40-300 Magmotors. I€™m probably wrong but I think you mean C40-500. The armour is a little weak, but fine. Give a few sizes for that hydraulic ram, is possible. Otherwise, a very nice robot. You€™ve been here, what€¦ a month? And you can already produce stats better than some people who have been here for a few years. Good going, Joey.
I think I meant C40-500, I have a bit of a weak spot for 3 and 5 :proud: and I guess I could add an extra couple of millimetres to the armour - rams arent something I know a great deal about, but Ill look at what others are using and possibly come up with something.
Thanks for the compliment :) I dont know, though, whether its a reflection of my knowledge and research or me being incredibly sad...
no joey you were right the first time. there is the mag c40 300. envy and thor runs them. not saying they dont do the 500 but i have never heard of them :)
a couple of other pointers for you. you will only need 3 ni-cad packs saving 2kg. i would go with full pressure with a 70mm hydraulic ram cut down to suit robot with 3 burkerts in giving a really good flow rate. go for a good flow rate and you will have good flipper. and saving weight having 70mm instead of 100mm. :) the ram setup in my robot air was like this and it flipped a heavy robot and it hit the roaming robots roof. something i dont think has been done again.
of course you dont have to do anything i say its just my opinions.
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/magmotors.htmlhttp://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/magmotors.html :)
Ah, youre right. Sorry, my fault. Well kinda... C40-500s do exist but the most commonly used one is the C40-300.
Thanks for the advice Shane, at this rate Im learning at I may yet be able to construct a proper cardboard model of a heavyweight before the year is out :)
Gabriel II
WEIGHT: 100kgs
DIMENSIONS: 105 x 80 x 35 cm
SHAPE: Elongated triangular pyramid with steep rear and very shallow front
COLOUR: Largely yellow, with a red and yellow striped flipper and black shapes on each side. Kind of like No Objections in a Gabriel shape.
DRIVE: 2 C40-300 Magmotors driving 2 inner wheels with Vulkalon treads for grip, running off 3 NiCd packs at 24v
SPEED: 14mph average, 20mph max
GROUND CLEARANCE: 0 at front due to spring hinged nose, rising to 6mm at rear
ARMOUR: 3mm aluminium baseplate, with composite 5mm titanium (5mm hardox in critical areas) and 7mm HDPE on the rest of the body.
WEAPONS: A high pressure pneumatic front hinged flipper, consisting of the front edge of the body, running from 2 2kg CO2 tanks and a 70mm hydraulic full pressure ram with high flow rate, giving 25 flips in a match and capable of flipping 100kgs easily and lifting several times more than that. Also has hardened tool steel spikes located on either side of the front point, and it can spin in place to try and do damage with these.
SRIMECH: Via weapon. The back has spikes to prevent stranding
NOTES: Components shock mounted for protection vs. spinners and impacts. The main changes from the previous Gabriel, aside from the colouring and armour, are that it is now slightly wider and quite a bit lower, giving a lower centre of gravity and making it easier to get other robots on the flipper, and the drive has been upgraded. To make room for the changes, the gas capacity has been reduced and the armour made slightly thinner.
STRENGTHS: Difficult to get a grip on due to the shape, low centre of gravity
WEAKNESSES: Awkward shape for pushing with
Thanks AJ,Ill sort that stuff out soon
Revised stats of Brutalis 1.0:
Dimensions-80x80x25 (cm)
Shape-Like Dantomkia but much lower and heavier at the front
Weight-100kg
Power-2xS28-400 powered by 3xNIcads battlepacks drive the go-kart style tyres
Top Speed- 14mph
Weaponry- 3000psi nitrogen powered rear-hinged flipper, 2 65mm rams, 2x3kg nitrogen bottles, 2,2:1 ratio
Armour- 4mm thick hardox all over, 3mm on base
Ground Clearance-Effectively zero due to skirts around rear and sides and flipper on front, 6mm clearance behind the skirts
Notes-Side skirts around sides and rear
Painted black all over with yellow flipper and red side skirts
(Message edited by Robot_Warrior on March 21, 2008)
I hav a question about tournaments:
The challenge belt tournament Im doing will come probably come to a close soon.With so few new people coming along Ive no plans for a third belt after the second one.
After its over I would be interested in doing a small tournament featuring no more than 24 robots.But I certainly dont want to clutter up the boards again by starting a new thread.
Should I just add it on to the challenge belt thread and tell people about it here?
adding it theres no use...
finish the challenge belt one, people will see you are capable of finishing a tournament, and theyll see you are improving your battles, that works in your advantage
after you finish the challenge belt just open up a thread and say whatll be happening, what the tournament shall look like and what you want from us, you might wanna look at the opening posts of tournaments like Chrash & Burn and Mechanical Noise for inspiration :)
I wil finish the challenge belt first, no matter how long it takes!Only when the challenge belt is finished will do another tournament:)Thanks a lot
And thanks to AJ for starting this awespome thread-I wish I had read it before starting my original tournament-Robot Coliseum...
http://magmotor.com/brushed/brushed.htmlhttp://magmotor.com/brushed/brushed.html
i have heard of them now. :) still stick with the 300. tried and tested to the max :) :)
Question, just what is the theory behind allowing tracked machines 10KG more?
i blame whoever started that rule in the first place
Tracked machines are supposed to have less speed (in many areas) than regular wheeled robots.
But does less speed warrant an extra 10 kg?
Well consider the speed loss. There should be SOMETHING to make up for that. And no, I dont mean a better driver. :P
Tracks
Are
Heavier
Than
Wheels.
And have more traction. A LOT more. (well depending on the situation, but generally they do)
I still dont see why they should be given 10kg extra to play with.
do you see why walkers are given an extra 50 kg?
walking mechanisms are heavy, people wont bother using them unless for a weight advantage
tracks are heavy (heavier than wheels, lighter than walking mechanisms), people wont bother using them unless for a weight advantage :P
I see why Walkers are given extra weight, as walking mechanisms are heavy (and slow in some cases)
tracks on the tv are the same weight as wheels
Tracks in real life dont get the advantage.
quote:
I see why Walkers are given extra weight, as walking mechanisms are heavy (and slow in some cases)
tracks are heavy (and slow in some cases) too
were vapourboteers, weve taken the television concept and try to bring it to a new level :proud:, we have decided that walkers need an advantage thats different from the advantage they get on tv (150 kg as oppossed to 200 kg) and by the same means we have decided that tracks deserve an advantage
just my 2 cents
Gabriel II - the redone stats are fine by me, some people may be picky on a few things but cross that bridge when you come to it.
Brutalis 1.0 - again, the remade stats are better. FRA Rules do not permit the use of Nitrogen or pneumatics above 1000psi so be careful there. What voltage are your motors running at? I presume 24v€¦ What are your skirts made of? How many wheels do you have? You could add things such as the turning circle and how you can self-right as well.
Liam: I think you have proved with the Challenge Belt that you aren€™t that bad at writing and can organise and hold a tournament. Going on to a small tournament sounds like a good idea once you are done with Challenge Belt. 24 robots may be a little ambitious; I would go for either 8 or 16 and build your way up. But you make the decision. Feel free to start a new thread for it once the Challenge Belt is done.
You seem to have the right idea and most importantly of all you are listening to advice. Well done, you should be a welcome edition if you can keep it up. And thank you for the complements on starting this thread. I€™m happy to see it€™s doing a good job. :)
Weight Bonuses: Personally, I do not support the changes in the rules only allowing walkers 150kg and letting tracked vapourbots have 110kg. I can see why they have been made, but do not believe they should have been implemented.
Just because tracked robots are slower is not a reason for giving them extra weight. If I had a 5mph wheeled vapourbot, does that mean I could get extra weight as well? Being heavier and having more traction certainly aren€™t reasons for having a bonus.
Walkers were given double the weight limit to encourage them. If you built an innovative walking robot, you had the luxury of having a weight bonus. This was not only to encourage them but also to allow them to have more protection. Aaron combined these two elements perfectly with MDU by protecting the vulnerable drive by a big defensive and offensive weapon. You could argue that the bonus could be given to tracks because they are also more vulnerable than wheels. But I don€™t see tracked robots as innovative as walkers.
Providing that extra 10kg allows slightly more protection for tracks and encourages people to use them. Personally I do not see anything wrong with shufflers, although I agree that giving them 200kg would be unfair. At the same time 100kg would also be unfair because they do in fact walk. Therefore 150kg would be the logical choice for everyone to use.
There is no reason what so ever why vapourbot walkers have to be 150kg rather than 200kg. I don€™t think I€™ll ever understand this decision. I also can€™t believe that people are claiming the Anarchy/Scuttle styled system is no longer classed as a true walker. But that is a story for another day€¦
That€™s my opinion anyway. :)
Thanks much, AJ:mrgreen:
Fair enough rant Andy, lemme say how I look at this.
This is how it went down:
The hosts of Robot Wars decided they wanted to see more walkers in the competition, thus they allowed walkers to have 100 kg more to play with, right?
Forget all the walking mechanisms are heavier and legs are slower crap, in the end it simply came down to the fact that the hosts wanted to encourage walkers, since nobody was making them. Mentorn stepped in and gave walkers a weight advantage...
Now skip over to us vapourboteers, Mentorn isnt involved AT ALL. WE host our own tournaments, and WE make the rules. Were living in a world of our own so to speak. And if the host of, say, Mechanical Noise (which would be myself) observes a decline of the ammount of tracked robots being made (just like that other host, Mentorn, observed a decline of walkers), why shouldnt this host step in and do the same for tracks as Mentorn did for walkers?