Robo Challenge Tag Team Champs & Power Tool Drag racing!

Hello all!

We are pleased to announce that we will be hosting the 2009 Robo Challenge Featherweight Tag Team Championships & The 2009 Power tool Drag racing championships with Silverline tools on September 12th and 13th!

Dates -September 12th & 13th 2009
Venue - Haynes Motor Museum, Somerset
Entry Fee - £10 plus at least one entry into a power tool drag racing catagory.
Prize Fund total - £4000 split between the different catagories of the power tool drag racing. Exact amounts in each catagory are on our website in the rules section.

This should be a really exciting event as not only will we see the return of our popular Tag Team Championships but this will be the first time we have opened up the Power tool drag racing championships to all competitors. This full combat joint event will certainly be one to remember!

There will be an of entry fee £10 into this event. Also ALL competitors that wish to enter the Tag Team Championships MUST enter at least one catagory of the Power Tool Drag racing event. We are trying to really boost the popularity of this event and would really like to see roboteers getting stuck in. These dragsters are really easy to build and are great fun. This event will also see the largest pot of prize money given away scince the TV series of Robot Wars... £4000! This will be split between the different catagories of the power tool drag racing. Trophies will be given to the top 3 tag teams in the combat championships aswell!

Sign up is open on our website. Please sign up individually but also add your tag team partners name. There is also a box to say which catagory you wish to enter in the power tool drag racing.

Drag racing rules and event info is on our website www.robochallenge.co.uk

More info to come & look forward to what will be a unique event to remember!

Robo Challenge Crew

Thats hornet 2 signed up!

I'll be coming back from 3 months in the US on the 11th of September at 8am followed by a drive 2/3 the length of the country for the comp on the 12th......someone watch me when I'm hooking up my batteries :rofl:

Looks like great fun and I hope to be there. But when you say 'Drag racing rules and event info is on our website www.robochallenge.co.uk', exactly where are the rules to be found?

yeah i cant see it either, want to know just the basics as i know nothing about it, but i dont find it that appealing personally, but then again i dont know nothing about it. :lol:

Rules

http://home.btconnect.com/priorycastor/ ... grules.htm

inspiration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyg9U1YaVk8

So what happenes to the roboteers that are new to the sport, and want to compete, but have to shell out more money on another machine that, in honesty, they are only likely to use once ?

I know a few roboteers that will feel the same. And in fact this rule has severly disapointed a new roboteer that had the timing perfect to make this his first event.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but this is my opinion.

What happens if you dont want to build a drag tool.... ( i dont really ).. cant you attend the event?
There's a £4000 prize fund, biggest since robot wars, I thought initially I heard this was for the drag tools... is any now being put towards the robots, unless i misread, it only says trophies for robots.
Whats the £10 entry fee for ? wheres that going?

Cheers

John

Well said Dave

they are only likely to use once ?

Don't know about you lot but generally every machine I enter in a competition is effectively a brand new machine with the amount of cash I spend on it. I should technically be on hornet 8 about now with the number of upgrades, time and cash I've gone through. Throw in travel money, staying over and everything else......I'm talking an average of 500 quid a comp.....a few quid for a power tool with wheels? Not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things considering you can pick up a drill for a tenner in b and q.

Don't know about anyone else but I'm planning on a serious entry for the power tool comp along with a serious entry in the robot comp. Don't wanna enter? Fair enough, more chance for me to win :)

While I can understand the benefit gained to the population of power tool drag racers by making entry mandatory alongside entering the tag champs, I'm not sure if that's the best way to go about boosting numbers.

I wouldn't have any qualms about building a drag racer if I had a strong interest in it, but at the moment that does not exist for me. Yes it may be able to be built relatively cheaply if you get basic brand or second hand tools, but its not going to appeal to everyone.

I'm going to be building one, maybe two, robots from scratch for this event, along with upgrading another one. That won't leave me much time (factoring in work and possible exam resits over summer) or money to work on a drag racer too. Adding on top of that three nights accomodation and petrol costs for 800 miles and extra burdens such as a drag racer appear as no more than a hinderance.

Strongly encouraging roboteers to build dragsters, especially considering the prizes on offer, would probably result in higher dragster numbers than making it an entry requirement. PTDG is of a similar 'genre', if you like, to robot combat as a hobby/sport so you're bound to have increased numbers by hosting the races alongside an event that will draw in around 100 engineering-minded people but is it right to force people to participate in a hobby that may not interest them when the main reason they've shown up is to particiapte in the hobby they enjoy?

I Really don't see what all the fuss is about.

This Angle grinder is £16. Spend a couple of quid on a frame and thats it. It will cost most people more in fuel to get to the event. Of course if you want to win you might need to spend a bit more but you don't have to it just a bit of fun.

My point was raised because I have no wish to participate in, nor waste my already limited time on any new machines just to compete in a competition that, under normal circumstances, would be free and uncomplicated for anyone to enter.

Also, my freind has limited resources at his disposal, only just enough for a FW, never mind a power tool drag racer. Because he cannot/does not wish to make a drag tool racer, is it fair to prohibit him from entering as competition that he does want to (and he even has a Tag Partner lined up) ?

Having had a more thorough look at the rules and a couple of videos and having had some sleep (I was a bit cranky during my last post) I'm a bit more willing to have a go at making a racer. I still think it shouldn't be an entry requirement especially, as Dave mentioned, some people have very limited resources and time, particularly new builders, but I'll keep an open mind about building one for now

I personally am in favour of this drag racer rule thing

having had a go first hand it is really cool and it can be so cheap - another thing to maybe win etc

i think people who are interested may be assited with the building in someway (trying not to reveal owt)

cool event i think

:mrgreen:

Just to clear things up a little...

The Power tool drag racing is the main event, and we are building and running that side of things too. We are trying to build up the popularity of this event and so do silverline, which is why we are trying to get as many roboteers into it as possible.

We are NOT being paid to run the event, we are NOT selling tickets, therefore we are NOT making any money for this. We were offered the chance by silverline to run an event there if we wanted to, to encourage roboteers to come along and build a dragster, not the other way around. It would FAR easier (and much cheaper) for us to forget the event but its something we want to do, mainly becuase theres not much chance for you guys to have a full combat and we belioeve its a great way to introduce roboteers into another fun, cheap sport with more prize money than any robot live event!

...so you won't be letting me compete at what would be a perfectly timed first event for me, when I had a team mate lined up and had virtually started planning my summer around it, purely because I'm not that interested in the drag racing and do not have the resources or skill to build one as well as building the robot?

@ big_nipper.

Hi Mark,

The angle grinder you linked to is 230v i would that be ok with the 110v supply at the event?
Meaning would it just run a little slower or do anything else need to be done.

I have a cheap angle grinder to enter the event with :proud: , so how do you extend the axle to the both sides of the gearbox?

Thanks,
ROB....

The 110v supply it states will be a typo - i will get silverline to sort that asap as it is running 240v 13A supply to each lane.

Hi Grant,

Would it be the blue, round, three pin plug like a caravan hookup i need to buy?
Cheers,
ROB....

Hi Rob,

I think it this one:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... rm=531-431

Its mentioned in the rules page for the drag racers on the Robochallenge website. Its to allow the connection to simply get pulled apart when the length of the power cord is exceeded, causing the dragster to stop at the end

Thats the one jamie. I believe silverline may be supplying these, although thats one of the many loose ends we need to agree on and get tied up before i can say anything for sure

this is an interesting debate lol, can see both sides, it may only be £16 for a angle grinder and a bit of frame, but when we build something we want it to be good and competitive so i think you would need to spend a bit more than that.
also remember peeps that we all dont have nice machining equipment at our disposal, or cash readily available to knock something together, for someone still at school £20 is a few weeks pocket money! that he might be saving as hard as he can to buy his robot bits needed for his event, but also we are all tightning our belts in this difficult time

i can understand trying to improve the popularity of tool racing, i will build one just to come to your event (but is that the right way of thinking?)
perhaps i will enjoy it and find it a bit of fun, but i still dont find it appealing enough to want to take it seriously, just as a laff.
i just wonder if all that will happen is that a load will turn up, then chuck them at the back of the garage after to gather dust.
but for me, as i want to fight a full combat event of robochallenges it is a small sacrifice, i will not be putting any effort into it though tbh, just any old bits i find lying around lol.

would it help to wave the fee for under 16's? i dont know.

Seeing as i was going to build one anyway it doesnt effect me that much, Quick question do we have to enter one dragster per team or per robot? I can see why people are abit upset, especially after spending alot of time building a robot then having to build a dragster, maybe offer other incentives to build a dragster, such as no/lower entry fee. My concern is for the newer/younger teams, as they now have to start playing with very powerful tools (anybody who has had a 9inch grinder snatch on them will know what i mean) plus the fact that you're now playing with 240v does raise a few concerns. But i can understand your reasons and i'll be waiting at the start line, got a few bits lying around that could be put to good use.

im all for promoting dragsters (they look fun and cool! :proud: ) but making it a rule that we HAVE to make a dragster is a bit much...plus my dad wont let me play with angle grinders :lame:

for example:

ok, im 12 years old,iv been watching robot wars since i was a toddler! i have recently made a few robots using most of my saved up funds, and am waiting eagerly to enter a event close to me...i read that there is a spinner tournament, just like robot wars...GREAT! then i read there is a £4000 prize fund...GREAT! then i read we have to make something that i have only briefly heard of and have no understanding of whatsoever apart from they run down a wooden track and are made out of tools :lame:

i dont yet have the knowledge/time/money/facility's to build these things...you can understand i am a bit disappointed because this means i cant go :cry: i guess there will be other events :D but i was really looking forward to this :)

jack

The ruling to state that you have to enter a dragster is not something that we have come up with.
Silverline have stated this, and they are paying for the hall for the arena to go in to do so.

1 dragster per team is perfectly fine, and I understand your points of view. Even just a belt sander with abit of wood strapped to the side to make it go in a straight line is perfectly fine. No moddification of the actual power tool is needed, no expensive equiptment is needed.

So far the winning dragster is only using very cheap angle grinders, infact almost everyone is. The more expensive hand tools are not worth buying, the cheap versions dont lack in speed and power, only quality (whiuch isnt really needed for this application :) )
I believe the gadget show will also be there filming and have an entry in the drag racing :proud:

A few dodgy dragsters water & electric, only in america but looks fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLmsz...eature=related

hmm....well iv got an idea in my head now of what i should be doing...just dont expect it to be really hi-tec :mrgreen:

jack

...fine then. I assume that's a no seeing as people appear to have forgotten that I asked something :P

I'm in no way happy about this considering how much I was looking forward to it - I actually feel like I've been punched hard in the chest - but if Andy can make it I shall cobble together the world's worst drag racer to satisfy the requirements for our team and make that only for the sake of entering the part of the event I wish to enter. If my teammate can't make it then I'm not going to attend, which is extremely disheartening but I guess I'll have to plan for Reading or any other events that may crop up.

Maplin sells 600w 115mm angle grinders for £12.99 online and the have more than 50 in stock , im going to use 2 of them.

Joey, you'll have competition for the world's worst dragster :D

My initial plan (not sure how much this will change over summer) is to take one of these:
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/store ... elt+Sander

and bolt a couple of these to it:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4 ... AA280_.jpg

modify the power cable with the required plug and bada-bing bada-boom, the worlds worst dragster :)

It'd be really good to see you and AJ at the event, so hopefully if the pair of you can make something like ^that^ you should be fine (then we'll kick your asses at tag-team :twisted: )

Now there's the question that bugs me - would a sanding belt qualify as destructive grip or not?

we was going to build one anyway so will be all fun

grant, is there prize money for the robots or just for the drags? i couldnt see on your website the break down

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by psychostorm

Now there's the question that bugs me - would a sanding belt qualify as destructive grip or not?

---

I was wondering the same thing myself. Not sure if it would count as destructive or non-destructive in the 'modified' class but I was told that for the 'stock' class there is no destructive/non-destructive separation, they all run as one. So belt sanders, circular saws and grinding discs would all be fine.

Personally I feel this rule of mandatory participation in the dragraces to be able to fight in the tag team champs is ridiculous. I hardly let my own sponsors decide where I spend my time, effort, and money on, let alone a sponsor that does absolutely nothing for me. Furthermore if feel mandatory participation is the wrong way of promoting a sport.

following what you've just said, i don't really agree with the powertool drag racing thing as a manditory thing that you have to do to get into the fra tag team championships, but i see the reason why, with the fact that the hall has been used mainly for the tool drag racing and the arena has be kinda put in aswell as a secondary event. but i think with this 10 pound charge of competing i don't see why you would have to then also make a tool drag racer, because if you pay the £10 pound surely that tenner gives you the right to then just enter the tag team competition if you wanted to.

Grant and James have posted the details of the competition along with the requirements for entering. If you don't want to enter or can't meet the entry requirements then don't enter and wait for another suitable comp....simple.

I honestly can't see where the problem is. Reminds me of all the fuss when we had to put LEDs in our machines :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by typhoon_driver

Grant and James have posted the details of the competition along with the requirements for entering. If you don't want to enter or can't meet the entry requirements then don't enter and wait for another suitable comp....simple.

I honestly can't see where the problem is. Reminds me of all the fuss when we had to put LEDs in our machines :lol:

---

This drag racing has nothing to do with regulations or robots. This is joining two events at the whim of a sponsor where YOU have got to pay for, that is not the same.

We have roboteers here that save every penny just to get a decent transmitter or speed controller, and just to compete they now have shell out even more for a sport they are not even involved in.

The event that the hall has been rented for is the Power Tool Drag Racing championships 2009. The cost of the hall is covered by Silverline. The Robo Challenge Tag Team championships are not a mandatory event on the FRA calendar (they don't need to be held every year in the same way that the FW and HW championships do). The tag champs are running purely for the benefit of us roboteers, due to the fact that it is both a fun competition and another opportunity during the year to run full-combat featherweight fights. Silverline have allowed Robo Challenge to erect the arena and run the event, but on the basis that every tag-team entry must submit a PTDR entry.

I thought the compulsory drag entry requirement was ludicrous at first too, but after learning and considering the above information, it seems fair for Silverline to state this requirement when you take into account that the money for the lease of the hall is coming from their pockets. Running the tag event isn't free either, regardless of the arena being set up in the hall under Silverline's lease; it'll cost the Robo Challenge crew a fair bit to run the event, transport for the arena, fuel for the transport, staff, pit tables etc. I don't know if that's what the £10 entry covers (since there are no active ticket sales for the tag champs) but if it is then I think its perfectly understandable.

I learned all of this after speaking to Grant on MSN; I'm not sure whether or not he'd have wanted me to post it all on to the forum but I think it would help provide a bit of perspective for those who are confused or annoyed by the entry rules. After all, we should be grateful that James and Grant are going to the extra effort of running the tag champs so that we are getting another opportunity this year to play full combat.

While I sympathise with those in the position of perhaps not being able to afford the extra parts for a racer, or have limited resources, its just a case of following Gary's advice and attending the next event that suits your situation.

And no, I'm not an official spokesperson for Silverline or Robo Challenge 8)

I disagree. If the sponsor of the event (who is also the organiser I gather) wants the arena there, it is up to Robochallenge to come up with a deal that will benefit both themselves and the roboteers attending. How much money or effort a sponsor puts into the event is of no relevance to the roboteers. We had an event at Zandvoort with dragsters, dirftcars, and all kind of motorised sports. We negotiated to be a part of that, Jonno arranges to have the robots attending RIAT no strings attached for the roboteers. Whenever an EO is part of another event you make sure the roboteers that will make or break your show are not inconvenienced by that.

This sets a bad precedent, and I want to make that clear before this comes around a second time and then the argument would be well nobody spoke up about that before when we did it.

A very valid point Leo. With exception of the information I posted above, I know nothing of the ins-and-outs of any negotiations for running the tag champs, so I can't comment or provide reasoning. The difference I see between this and the two events you mention is that RR's RIAT events and (I'm assuming) your Zandvoort event were put on with the intention of providing a show for the public, whereas the show at this event is the power tool racing, with the arena being set up entirely for the roboteers. Yes there may well be a viewing public there who will have gathered for the drag racing that will watch the tag champs but we're not putting on shows specifically for them, more a case of allowing us to fight for the sake of us fighting :)
This is my understanding of the situation and event at least, but if I'm mistaken on any of it I'm more than happy to be corrected.

I do agree with you Leo that perhaps some clarification or precedent setting for the future may be required to prevent statements such as well nobody spoke up about that before when we did it cropping up, especially considering that this has sat uneasily with some people and has generated a debate (at least its a healthy debate, we're not all having a go at each other's throats :lol: )

As a side note, are you hoping to attend this event at all? Would be good to see your machines up close in action again. And I really must get to a European event soon :)