Clusterbot

Our new fw clusterbot is near completion. just wondered if this is the first, will post some pics shortly once finished. trying to think a name for it, was thinking maybe double trouble. also does it have to have any particular type of link mechanism between the two? i was going to just use a steel rod which would be pulled out before the fight starts.

It has to be able to seperate during the fight.

It must drive in as one ....and as pointed out above seperate under its own power in the Arena.

Id be inclined to put one on top of the other .... and drive the top one off :)

hmmm, bugger, it can drive in as one but i will have to sort a mechanism, i could put one on top of the other if i get stuck! anyone know what gemini used?

(Message edited by ady on August 22, 2007)

Ive been thinking about making a cluster bot too but where is it covered under the rules? Is it an unwritten rule that the robot must drive in as one? What rules are used to decide the winner of a fight? Is a clusterbot out if one robots dead or is it 50% by weight?
Personally I think the robots should be able to drive in separately and there shouldnt be explicit rules about how much of a cluster bot needs immobilising. If a robot can continue with only half its drive working and a dead weapon, then a clusterbot should be able to continue with one of the robots dead.

i wouldnt mind a few things clarifying as i was just going on old rules, that mechanism will be a pain, trying to think the most reliable way to do it

Adrian, we used our robokits as a clusterbot last year at the champs and we just put some gaffa tape ontop to link them together. its just pulled off when one drove away.

The definition of clusterbot derives from the original robot wars rules. But it is not specifically covered under the current FRA rules.

Personally I think a clusterbot is two or more robots designed to work as a team and that they shouldnt need to start as one unit, although it does look cool.

Under the current rules, I believe the intention was to leave it open for inspiration. But if you are planning something weird and wacky, its best to ask first.

(Message edited by kane on August 22, 2007)

cheers kane, i presume fra read the posts could someone from the fra answer my question? i was planning on putting them in the arena as one and driving them into position as one, then at the the time (when you normally remove safety locks from spinners etc) remove the quick release bolt that holds the 2 together.

grant if i cant find a solution i will use that one!!


(Message edited by ady on August 22, 2007)

You could try some magnets on the back of them, ones strong enough that if one of the halfs drives slowly, it will drag the other one with it, but if both try to drive away, they overcome the magnet. Neodymium hard drive magnets are a great thing to try, easy to get and plenty strong :proud:

Just don,t get them stuck to another opponent:lol:

I can see it now, the clusterbots magnet attaches itself to small torques scoop, so she can make a dash across the arena with it. :)

.... and straight into the pit as usual :rofl:

or knowing my luck i will use the gaffer tape idea, it will come undone and get tangled around my wheels and imobilize my own robot.

well, half of it. :)

Gary, didnt the typhoon twins use string or something along those lines?


(Message edited by leorcc on August 23, 2007)

couldnt you just weld bolt a bar onto one side of one of the cluister bots, then on the corrsponding side side of the other one a piece of box section, which the bar would fit into to?

dont know if it would help, or just cause more problems :)

just my idea,

alex

yeah we used exceptionally thin wire cable and a painted bit of paper over the top of the bots to make the two look like one.

Adrian,

We use a 50% rule... ·

Cluster bots, if 50% or more of the clusters becomes immobile or knocked out, all of the clusters are deemed to be knocked out.

If one weighs 5.5kg and the other 6.5kg, and the 5.5kg one gets knocked out, then you will still be classed as mobile.

if they both weigh the same and one gets knocked out, then they are both knocked out.

I dont believe there is an actual rule on the linking mech, however i would like to think an effort would be made to physically link them together. Maybe something better than Gaffer tape.

John
http://www.RoamingRobots.co.ukwww.RoamingRobots.co.uk

cheers jonno, i will go with my quick release bolt idea.

(Message edited by ady on August 23, 2007)

i had designed a clusterbot a few years ago, and i used a simple system which used a servo which pulled a pin.

A very lightweight, and simple design.

John

KIS is always the way to go in these cases.

thats what i was thinking jonno. put a loop on the back of one and a hook on the end of a servo at the back of the other. nice, simple, reliable & and most of all dosnt look lame :)

need some hdpe, what sort of thickness should i go for on sides when against spinners? i was going for about 10-12mm?

10mm will do the job nicely for most spinners.

Any idea how much a 6mm thich 500mm x 500mm peice of hdpe weighs?Will it be strong enough?

HDPE has a density of rough 0.97 g/cm^3 work it out.

Will 6mm be strong enough?

I use 6mm HDPE and polycarb in my 450 gram robots and 10mm HDPE in 6kg bots.. And I think 10mm isn´t even enough when fighting robots like Prolodja. For featherweight I would use minimum of 10mm and cover it with thin steel or aluminium.

Just my 2 eurocents. ;)

So far 10mm has held out fine in the featherweight class. be prepared though, some nasty spinners will get through or at least leave nasty gashes.

I disagree with Juha about putting metal in front of it, we did that on our raptor and that was the stuff that took the full force of Prolodja, where the HDPE alone would have just absorbed the blow and flexed the energy out.

It is also the way you use it that matters. Bolt HDPE straight to a steel frame with no possibility of flexing, and it will not be as effective as when you do suspend it in such a way that it can give way.

I have got a sheet of 5mm polycarb from technobots.If i put a piece of 4mm hdpe underneath it do you think that would hold out against the most powerful of featherweight axes and spinners?

It will give you a fighting chance certainly.

Will 1.5mm thick ali box section welded hold out?

u dont need any :P spinners r rly easy to beat

more about driving skills and tactics imo

planning on putting 2 x 9.6v drill motors in each half of the clusterbot, what voltage could i put in these? i was planning on using 15amp electronize and 2 x 8.4nimh packs in each half of the robot.

what voltage could i put in these?

You could put 100V through them but I doubt they would last long :)

Seriously though, I wouldnt go for much more than around the 14V mark. I go for the rule that if overvolting a motor and unsure about how far to go, go 1.5 times above the rated voltage.

If it is a cluster bot though you may be watching the weight. 9.6V through them will still provide a competitive drive system.

so you think i would be best going with 2 7.2v packs? as i have plenty of these lying around and would save buying new.

(Message edited by ady on September 18, 2007)

14.4V would be a very nice voltage for a set of 9,6V drillmotors.

I agree with Gary, 1.5 times the nominated voltage is usually best for overvolting motors.

14.4V would be better yes, but 16.8V should be ok although it might start getting a bit too fast to control, espcially as Electronizes dont have as fast a response time as other speedos (still perfectly good speedos though) What size wheels are you using by the way? As the bigger the wheels, the faster itll go, particularly at 16.8V.

Kaizer weighed 6kg at the Eurochamps and had two 9.6V motors on 14.4V and 75mm wheels - plenty of speed and enough torque for the raptors. Drumroll weighed 1.5kg more but was still able to push the full 12kg feathers about no problem (that was 9.6V motors at 12V on 100mm wheels)

Any pics of this clusterbot yet? :)

(Message edited by K_C_R on September 18, 2007)

it will be fitted with the 75mm blue wheels. no pics yet will post some,dont like to post them when its still not finished! i been spending the last couple of weeks finishing my daughters robot KAHN,did put a pic briefly on profile. that thing is really good and i believe it will do very well at events, its alot stonger than prodigy was and that always served me well.

i want to concentrate on the fw cluster now, along with selling the house, starting up the new business shortly, and everything else!

(Message edited by ady on September 18, 2007)

With 75mm wheels 14.4V will work quite nicely, should give you a speed of approx 6.6mph (10.5km/h) based on a 500rpm motor (most standard drill motors).

And posting pictures when its not finished allows your opponents (i.e. us :)) to see any potential weak spots in the construction - not so easy to do when you post pictures of it with all its armour on! Silly billy :proud:

Sounds good though - hope to see it in action soon (will it be at Thinktank??)