GERONIMO!

HI Guys,

Been asked to put this on here, A new programme for bbc2.

Problem is the short notice it has given.


THE CHALLENGES

We will be filming in two locations during the October half term and there will be four Challenges to solve:


Location 1:

Blackpool beach - next to the North Pier.
22nd 23rd and 24th October
These are the two challenges for location 1
Challenge 1:The Amphibious Sand Mud and Sea Racing Machine
Build a machine that can travel across hard sand soft sand and water.

Challenge 2: The Great British Beach Digging Machine
A sand digging machine - Build a machine that can shift the most amount of wet sand in a limited time.



Location 2:

Weston-super-Mare beach lawns- on the beach lawns by the sea front
29th, 30th and 31st October
These are the two challenges for location 2
Challenge 3: The perfect penalty Shoot-out machine
Build a machine that can score penalties into a football goal. Are you better than Beckham?
Challenge 4: The Triple Jumping Machine Olympics
Build a machine that jump the furthest and the highest.

For further details drop us a line at geronimo@bbc.co.uk or alternatively ring the office on 0117 9742424, or contact jonno.

They are mainly short of triple jumping machines, hence asking me to post this on here, to see if there are any old technogames machines lying around.

Jonno

Considering the work being done by other people to promote engineering this just looks like a half baked attempt to copy Scrap Heap Challenge.
What a shame they are trying to rush somthing out.

Firstly how do they expect people to enter if people like us dont know anything about it untill weeks before the event.

And secondly, it does sound like a cross between the BBC series focusing on War Machines, and a scrapheap challenge rip-off for the BBC, but even now we arent told much so I cant say much there either :)

Probably just the usual bunch of Arts and Media Studies grads who have no idea about timescales for building.

The problem is, somebody WILL probably waste all his spare time to build something for them. Either they will cancel the recordings 1 day before tapeing strarts. Or they use the contraption as commic releif. If all your hard work actually gives you a good result they probably wont care as long as it make good TV, if it fails it probably makes better TV. And if the episode actually makes it to the screen, the producers wil pat them selves on the back because THEY are brilliant.
Somehow Im not verry fond of TV people.

I share your cynicism on this. As far as Im concerned its just another makeover programme crossed with Its a Knockout crossed with jolly British seaside humour.
No doubt itll be hosted by Paul OGrady dressed in stripy blazer with deck shoes.

Background-

The BBC is throwing down the gauntlet to industry, schools, universities and anyone who has ever fancied themselves as an inventor or designer. Can you build a machine to beat our challenges and all the other competitors?

We will be staging four challenges spread over two large events to be filmed during the October half term, and that will form part of a major series to be shown on BBC Two in January 2005.

Anyone is welcome to enter, or just come and watch.

The competition is backed by the Royal Academy of Engineering, and will be a family day out. The emphasis is very much on hands-on engineering and fun.

The presenters are Fearne Cotton (CBBC and Top Of The Pops) and Dick Strawbridge. Dick is a past champion of Scrapheap Challenge and presented the BBC Two series Crafty Tricks of War.

You are invited to take part and form a team who can design, build and race a machine that can beat the professionals.

The races will take place on the Saturday and Sunday with the grand finals on the Sunday. Even if you don€™t want to take part in the races, come and see the fun.

Once we receive your completed form well send you an entry pack to confirm your place in the races.

Therell be a separate category for under 18s.

(I just got this off the BBC website, I agree, its a shame program makers cannot see their programs from a different perspective. This event does sound promising on the outline, if only they could make more of it! Even the website for it is rather tiny.)

After having read the rules, the BBC seems to not care at-all for the people that they are expecting to enter. It looks like they just want people to turn up to a beach with a strange machine which they tell you to make. They dont seem to mention accomodation, costs, and they even disallow sponsorship for a machine. Seems loopy to me, they should be shot. (*insert smilie with halo here*)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/geronimo/pdf/geronimo_rules.pdfhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...nimo_rules.pdf

4: To enter you are expected to meet all your own costs.
This includes travel and transport to and from the event, accommodation while at the event and all build costs to make your machine.

Precisely

they expect far too much

Jonno, can you pass our thoughts onto them?

Anybody fancy taking their bots out for a stroll on the beach?

have i missed something? whys everybody moaning? at least the BBC still have an interest in this sort of stuff. How can you moan about money? we spend alot more on our bots without getting anything back. remember, they could just not do it!

And if no one could just do it they wouldnt have a programm. Thats the problem. They sort of expect you to make sacrifices. No questions asked, not even accomodations offered. Thats just rude.
Maybe im just being a soure pouce(spelling?). But Im trying to be realistic. I didnt even need to read the rules to expect this sort of treatment (I admit, its sort of short sighted on this subject. Im not even planning to enter the competition, but hey.)

sour puss .... and its joined into one word sourpuss :)

Well not the responce i thought it would get.


I think the problem is that you´ve all been spoilt. Hotels, appearance money left right and centre.

Whats happened to the lets do something for fun why are you so sinical ????

This thread sums up the community in some respects, i wont go on.

Anyway back to my pool side for more sun, sea and BEER !!!

Jonno - pondering life in Gran Canaria

My problem is that we end up broke while the program can make a profit and the other people that are involved in the program (i.e. presenters) can make lots of dosh. Equally you can say if there werent people as mad as us, these programs wouldnt happen.
I have to agree with James Dysons view If the world were run by designers, builders, engineers and scientists (not mad ones of course), it would be a much better place

We can dream cant we?

but it didnt stop people attending RW did it? Im sure theres people on here who would be interested in attending, i would like to enter, just for abit of fun, but due to Uni stuff i cant.

If you dont like the way things like this are run then just dont attend, its as simple as that. But anything that involves engineering on TV cant be a bad thing, can it?

Ive no problem with the idea of paying my own way. Appearance money and expenses are nice but theyve never been an essential. Indeed, its not so long ago that many of us were willing to part with hard-earned cash to pay for the privilege of competing in the world championships (and Ewan, I dont remember you moaning as vociferously over that).

I agree with Alan that anything that involves engineering on TV cant be a bad thing. Indeed anything that can help dispel the false assumption that engineering is boring has got to be good.

Its just a pity that weve had so little notice.

I for one cant afford anything at the moment- I think thats just a side effect of being one of the youngest roboteers around- they (the makers of this program) cant expect lots of under 18s to enter without any financial support for the event- I certainly wouldnt be able to afford it. Talk about trying to include young engineers!

Im probably just in a bad mood

The chances are any younger people will be doing it through school/colleges etc. I cant see money being a big issue as the could easily be built from scrap (remember the good old days of RW?).

In the back of my head I cant resist of thinking up ways to build a ball kicking machine. But 20 days is just too short a time. Especially because the rules state that boring and obvious contraptions will lose points. Its going to be verry dificult to make something competative. This is way to get youre face on TV though :)

Well I hope a lot of youngsters will respond and participate. If we could have afforded it (and gotten more time) we might have gone, if only to encourage said youngsters.
I love teaching and one of the principal goals in my life is gathering and passing on any knowledge I can get my eyes and/or hands on. So it is a TV company that organises it, big deal, at least your BBC is still adhering to its original purpose to educate the masses !

well guys,

im taking part, im doing it for the fun, but maybe thats the kind of person i am.
No expectations, just something to do.

the project has been launched for at least a month before finding me, and they are disapointed at the short notice it has given.

ah well, ill let you all know how it goes, or watch out for it on tv next year.

jonno

The Concept will either be originated with the BBC or an indipendant production company who will have floated it to the BBC.
One of the first piorities for the production company will be to organise the minimum number of machines to film the shows. This will have been done by contacting people who can get the job done. In the case of the Mechanoids series £1,000 was contributed towards build costs with accomodation and travel expenses paid for. A lot of the robots in the the first series of Robot Wars were built by special effect specialists who probably wernt working for free.
Once enougth machines are confirmed and the show is given the green light then the BBC will have put it up on their website with invitations to the public to take part.
Its great that now that Jane Root (she cancelled Techno Games and Robot Wars) has left the the BBC they can do engineering based shows again.
Its a shame that its such a Scrap Heap knockoff and that the time to build for general public entry is so limited.
I wont be putting anything together. I have a family, a full time job, a robot to rebuild and some other thing Im involved with. Given more notice then I could have shuffled some time around.

Hi Jonno, Louise pointed this out to me. I didnt even know that it was on the forum.

You must appreciate that us roboteers have been bloody busy competing in your winter tour.

Its unfair of you to say I think the problem is that you´ve all been spoilt. Hotels, appearance money left right and centre. remember that appearence fee just pays for the hotel. There is fuel and food for us to pay for as well. And thats twice a month! I do not have that kind of money. I wish I did. Let alone the time that it would take to do something like this.

Its OK for you to do this, you are after all a professional and its your time to play with.

I just wish that I had the time and money to do this. I know many other roboteers would also love to do this.

Maybe if you posted this in the Events section then it may have had a better reading.

Good luck.

Mike.

er... its abit ironic... ok its amazingly ironic :proud:

But jonno, can people still enter for the penalty shoot out? I wanna kick some other under 18s ass (no, the machine is not designed for the high tolerances of kicking someone in the behind so I guess thats my job :proud:)

Seems Im in, is anyone else competing?

Hmmmm just read this post for the first time and cant believe the comment think the problem is that you´ve all been spoilt. Hotels, appearance money left right and centre, seems a bit insulting to me.
The current appearance money for most events (expect Edinburgh £100 appaerance fee against £210.00 hotel bill, £70 petrol and then food on top) only covers the hotel fee, so we are still funding petrol, food and repairs to the robots.
If we arent doing this for fun then I dont know what we are doing it for cause its certainly not money, else we would have stopped a long time ago

Guys I tend to agree with Jonno here. Alright it might not cover all expenses but its not long ago we got no money for attending an event.

Ian,

I guess we will all be seeing you at the next event then?

See you there!

All.

As all of you know I am from Ireland and have to fly to events. This is not a problem to me and I look on it as If someone will pay then all the better. If not Ill do my best to get over.

The reason why I am not attending any events at the moment is because I am doing no roboteering other than on the computer untill july as I am in 6th year which is the final year of Secondary School. Therefore I agreed with my parents not to do any robots until after my leaving cert is over. After that I am free to do as much as I like. So expect the return of an Improved Flipper next summer.

See you all there.

Bye Ian

Im with Adam on this one. Im a single parent who has to go without just to pay for the rooms on this tour let alone meals out and petrol. Appearence money is something that doesnt go into my pocket, its to keep the robot running. Im also one that gets off lightly many a time seeing as Geoff kindly footed the bill for last Saturdays meal for example. Even after all that Im having to carefully (and I mean carefully) monitor my bank balance to keep up with attending events every 2 weeks.

Personally, we attend events with no expectations for any expenses but it is nice when the organisers are in a position to share on the rewards they get for staging the event. Like many other teams though, no assistance towards expenses could mean not being able to attend as many events as one would want.

The position is continually changing, supply and demand comes into it and the organiser needs sufficient Roboteers to stage their event and may have to offer perks.

Paul

talk about things getting taken out of proportion.

I had written a big reply, but cant be bothered.
I give up with this forum.

in simple terms, i did someone a favour who was organising an event and needed a certain type of machine. An event for fun, where people have a choice, take part, or dont.

I post here to see if anyone had any old technogames machines lying around that they may fancy a bit of fun with.

what do i get back via the forum and emails....

this is a rip off,
they dont know what they are doing,
why arent we getting paid to make the machine?
why arent we getting appearance money?
why arent we getting accomodation provided?

in further simple terms, if you cant afford it, dont agree with it, or simply dont like it.....

DONT DO IT !!!


Im going to buy a bar in the sun, where people have to pay for beer and food !!

Jonno,

Will you have an arena next to the bar?

Could be a good combination!

Kane Aston
http://www.makerobotics.comhttp://www.makerobotics.com

Damn, when money enters the equation it all goes down the drain.

Now I can imagine some people make a big deal out of it. But if we want to attend an event we will, if we get a partialy refund of travelcosts we wont say no.
If not, so what.

Brighton,Folkestone, Liverpool, Newark and Billings for this year already. Unfortunatly the social on 2 october and Worthing dropped out, otherwise that would be the 6th and 7th event in the UK this year for us. Average cost on ferry, £130(*4= £520).Fuel, total this year for the UK alone £316.
Attendance fees this year.Travel refund for the Liverpool/Newark events(1 trip-stayed in the UK at Arthurs place), free camping and food wherever possible.Thanks to Jonno and crew.

Its a hobby.

Even in professional sports-like formula one- a stiff entrance fee has to be payed to the organizers to allowed to compete, not the other way around.

So, be glad we can do our thing in relative easygoing manners.

OK folks, a few facts for you.

No one apart from Jonno and Paul Cooper (Technobots) are what could be described as professional roboteers.

If you dont do something professionally, you do it as a hobby.

Hobbies arent jobs.

Most roboteers dont have the first idea of what it takes to put on a live event, in terms of money, resources and time. If you dont believe me, ask Jeremy Cuss what the results were when Jonno asked those at the Huddersfield social how much they thought an event costs to put on. If you dont believe him, Ill show you the balance sheet from WITW 2002 and my outlay from the failed WITW 2003... which is a drop in the ocean compared to an event on the scale of what Jonno puts on on a regular basis.

One of the biggest outlays, if not the biggest, from any live event is roboteer accomodation. Not to mention the massive logistical headache of organising the accomodation, only for teams to moan about it afterwards.

No-ones forcing you to attend - you do it because you enjoy it.

Robotic Combat is not a high-profile sport most people have forgotten about it and think it died out when the BBC stopped showing it.

YOU ARE NOT TV STARS!

Join the real world folks, if you want to keep playing, you have to do what Jonnos done over the years and put your money where your mouth is.

Hi Steve.

You are correct. We are not stars. Nor will we ever be. The point that I was trying to make was that I and many others are already stretched to the limit. Financially and physically. There is no getting away from that.

I hold Jonno in the highest regard for his dedication to the sport. At the moment we are lucky that we can get some money back. But there will soon come a time when we have to pay to play like many other sports such as motor cycling, racing, go carts etc. Will I pay to play? Of course I will. It is my hobby after all. I just hope that many others will as well. I believe that they will.

If this informatio about the Geronimo venture has been made public earlier then I would most certainly have entered. Its fun and I hope it always will be. But it didnt so no matter how much griping I or others do there is nothing that I can offer.

I, like many others have been making things other than RW type robots. I have just spent a great deal of time and money making a boxing robot. This leads me to firmly believe that there is great interest amongst ourselves to build things and have fun with them and others.

I do not, nor should anyone else look for financial reward. It isnt there. period. But while part costs are covered I see this as a bonus.

TV will make a programme using robots, either combat or Technogames style. And when they do we should all remember that it will be a very low budget programme. It is in all of our interests to help the TV companies do this. If after a time they make enough profits then maybe we should get a shareout in the form of expences etc.

As Mario sais Damn, when money enters the equation it all goes down the drain. I for one do not wish to see this happen. It is after all a hobby.

Mike.

You know, there is a reason why I havent got running water in my kitchen since June 2003... for some reason we would rather drive off to a live event than installing new waterpipes to replace the cut-off leaky ones. Money is after all only a print-out on your bank account slips and some things are more important being enjoyed than others.

With this little story I just wanted to explain why we go to events people, not to moan about finances. Life is life, but you live only once ! Or to quote a very nice person I know from an otherwise whacky weird forum:
quote:

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - strawberries in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming WOO HOO! What a Ride !

THE QUOTE IS AMAZING BABETH AND OH SO VERY TRUE ........... AND LETS FACE IT MOST ROBOTEERS EH WHAT A RIDE WE ARE ALL HAVING .......
I KNOW I AM !!!!!!!!!!!...........