Pneumatic Rules

Just so I dont take the other thread totally off topic I will start a new one.

I dont mean to cause a fuss with this by way of changing a bunch of things all at once. But this has direct effect of the weight issue. As I understand it you weigh the robot with an empty tank. Here you weigh them full. That is a bit of a problem, dont ya think?
Also, if a meeting is required to change something why not discuss two things at once so you dont have to set up another meeting which will take more even more time, ECT...

You, the FRA should not have to change much if anything. The way I see it you, the FRA and UK have the most pneumatic robots. You seem to have a safe way of doing everything which has led to some awesome pneu bots! Here in the USA we have, ummmm what, one SHW good pneu bot? Everything else I would not even call good when put up Vs. your pneu bots. I cant even think of a feather pneu bot off the top of my head that is even worth naming.

Thus all I suggest is that you make a movement that the RFL adopt your pneumatic rules just as we have asked you to adopt a new weight class system. All it would require is for a boss to send an E-mail to Dave to get the ball rolln. I am going to make a post in my forum about this as well.

~Chad :-)

If we go over to 13.6kg here, then its still a full kilo we can spend more on our feathers.

On the other side, if the RFL goes over to the proposed/new limited consumables rule of 600 gram CO2 for feathers up to 2 kg in heavies, then the RFL gets also a new incentive to build pneumatical machines.

Its 600 grams free power...

But its not only the CO2 weight, or the other pressurised gasses.
In the RFL 3000 psi storage tanks are allowed, over here the limit is 1000 psi, so we all use CO2 due the favorable liquid/gas transformation.

The biggest problem is that the RFL has a serious issue with pressure tests and the prototype rule that gives us a legal way to prove our Euro materials.

Also, who cares that a robot would explode in the arena? Its not as if a bunch of spinners dont induce bigger forces.

Now that I am trying to use a prototype cylinder I am starting to question the RFL rules... Most (all of Marios) prototype cylinders are safe as seen in all of the cylinders that you have made Mario. But I assure you the first time I fired it I was out of the room just in case. The big thing that I found out is that they,the RFL dont want a total noob trying to weld up a cylinder and kill himself. I understand this, but it puts a real damper on pneu bots. Espically with people who half way know what they are doing. The only reason we go up to 3000 psi is so we can use HPA, like I will use on skewer. . . In whatever life time I actually finish it :-). + With the free weight more pneu bots will get built, yay! Less killer spinners and brick bots = good!

~Chad :-)

if you take an off the shelf cylinder, and drill holes in it, it looses its certification.

if you enlarge the already made holes, it may effect its certificate.

just how much work on a cylinder/ram is allowed before it looses its certificate?

maybe you should ask the RFL this, and if it turns out that a lot of rams are actually in breach of their original certification, then prototype rules can be suggested rather than ban the current machines?

just my suggestion to help?

The big thing that I found out is that they,the RFL dont want a total noob trying to weld up a cylinder and kill himself
But the RFL , FRA etc let noobs build spinners .... potentially just as dangerous if not more so. IMHO

That is true, but the comment about pnuematics blowing up is not much different to spinner is not a good thing to think! Its not only going to blow in the arena, its at its maximum pressure when its been filled, I.E out in the pits, or loading into the arena. Spinners only unleash their power in the arena when they are locked in.

Grant, it seems you dont use pneumatics. The pressure is the highest when the bottle warms up, and our rules allow only certified bottles, and I have only 1 bottle certified to 135 bar. All the others are 200 bar and above.
Also, open the bottle and the PRD has to vent any pressure over 1000 psi.
Even a low pressure valve or ram wont explode at this pressure, it just will trow out all the thin seals and vent gas as a sieve.

The only things we have seen explode with pneumatics are rams that trew the rod because the moving mass of the arm ripped it out, or the cast ali head couldnt resist the force.

And even certified hydraulic rams can suffer from this, as no ram is meant to move at the speeds we want. Festo gives as max speed for most it rams 4m/sec. Hydraulic seals ,depending on kind and brand do only 2m/sec.

Gravitys ram achived unloaded speeds over 10m/sec.

ALL certified co2 bottles that are correctly filled are perfectly safe .... A standard rupture disc is set to blow @ approx 2,200 psi .. On a correctly filled bottle this shouldnt happen until its temperature exceeds 120 degrees F ...... squeezing a little extra into the bottle e.g. 1/2 a kilo on a std 2kg bottle brings the temperature/burst disc threshold down to around 80 degrees F.
Note that bottles are/should be ONLY turned on in the Arena.

sorry, i miss understood then!
But i do beleive that wether the robot uses pneumatic/hydraulics/petrol engines etc etc that the robot should enter the arena within the weight limit.
Robot wars set the rules to state that gas was aloud ontop of the weight limit to encourage more people to build pneumatic weapons. but there are quite a few now.

That may require a lot of existing robots to loose a nice chunk of weight, and with a lot of them i know they would not make te weight then. Even now i know of one robot that is struggling to get the weight down since the rule change that only 2kg gas fillig is counted as consumable and the rest is added to the weight.

But as a compromise, why dont we let youre robot weigh in with empty batteries. hows that? :)