Power/failsafe LED

There seems to be a problem .As several Dutch competitors dont get the whole idea about the power on LED. Also, carefull reading of the rules gives a few other questions.

Purely in the rules we have this.
4.3. In addition to the main power light (See. Batteries and Power no. 6.8.) showing the main power is activated. It should also indicate if the robot is in €œfailsafe€, €œoff€ or €œzero€ position.


On the FRA mainpage we get this rule.

As off 1st January 2004 all middleweight, heavyweight and superheavyweight robots running at FRA events will be required to be fitted with an exterior power light as a clear visual indication of whether the robot is in a powered state (i.e the removable link is in and the robot is active)

Now, what is realy needed? And how and in what colors.
I can see some confusion brewing. If Team A uses a red led to indicate Link in and team uses B a red light to indicate failsafe active on channel 1
Also, all our channels are failsafed(except for some who failsafe 1 complete shut down idea)Do each need a failsafed light?

Lots of questions needing to get an answser

on our system i cant see how we are suposed to put in a failsafe light. All our failsafes are built into the system, therefore no way of connecting any inicators into the system.

No problems in fitting a power LED, the failsafe one is the problem. I cant really see the point in the failsafe/zero led, as if its powered up, it has the same potential no matter what state its in. I personally feel safer when its under TX control rather then failsafe (but thats just me!).

Maybe we could see an example of the fitted system.

I have 2 flashing red leds when power is on so cant see any reason for the led to tell the power is off if no lights are lit then power is of
i always disconect the battery when in the pits so there would be no power for any lights
or have i got it wrong again :sad:

Mario is right this is going to cause confusion. When my powertrac switches failsafe they illuminate no LED, when on they are green/red depending on fire state... the quasar mixer flashes red LEDs in its normal state, and has steady LEDs in failsafe....the old RF1 units do it the opposite way around....so thats 3 different failsafe indicators in one robot.
Im not sure of the benefit of failsafe indicators, If the power is on I cant see anyone approaching a robot with anything less than caution is safe whether your lights are flashing or not.
I think the power light is a good idea, as it tells you whether the link is in, but even this only tells you when its in, as a lack of lights could mean the link is out, OR the indicators have packed up.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

The failsafe indicator has been discussed fairly heavily since the original release of the rules and its been concluded that we should remove this from required status and place it into advisory.
Theres good reason to have them on board as they are a further visual indicator of the state of the robot both for arena crew and roboteers, but as has been mentioned here, there are issues on the technical side, which make them very hard to implement for some.
There is a revision of the FRA rules due out early 2004.. nothing serious.. but a few re-wordings etc will hopefully clarify the points that have caused confusion/worry so far. As the failsafe light is planned to be changed there wont be any requirement for it at any FRA events run in the interim.

So to clarify:

a. The power light is required.. it doesnt matter what colour it is as long as its easily visible.

b. The failsafe light is advisory.. and dito with the colours.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Samuel Jones
FRA Safety Committee

Translated and posted on the Dutch forum.

My advice.
for the Power on(or Link In light) a red warning light(LED or otherwise)
A green light(or LED) for the failsafe function.
For the power on I suggest non blinking. The failsafe doesnt matter, as it blinks or stays on, there is a problem. An occasional glitch is possible. But not as if the meaning can be misunderstood.

Now, the light/LEDs are an indication, not a truth. So even when a robot in the arena shows no lights stay carefull.

As a couple of posts above say:

a lack of lights could mean the link is out, OR the indicators have packed up.

and


So even when a robot in the arena shows no lights stay carefull.

If you have put your link in your robot you should treat it as live at all times, regardless of what indicator lights say. Given that, it seems to me that a power light is as likely to cause accidents as to prevent them because it could give a false sense of security in some cases. The best indicator of a robots status is the link itself - if it is in your pocket the machine is safe, if it is in the machine, the machine is not safe.

We think its a good idea for the power lights and had them fitted before series 7 along with weapon active LEDs and disagree with John. Ive seen robots with the link removed that have still been active due to wiring incorrect and if power lights across each speed controller light up then this can be spotted sooner.

One possible example of this is if you use a speed controller with large capacitors in it there is suffeceint power in them to activate a weapon relay long after the link is removed and the lights would show this.

The lights would eventually drain the capacitors too, so it even helps to solve the problem.

While looking for a nice featherweight motor i came across this:

http://www.heliproz.com/gem2000.htmlhttp://www.heliproz.com/gem2000.html

maybe something to take a look at?