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Thread: I have caught the bug ! Can anyone help i have lots of questions !

  1. #1
    Roboteer

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    CHAOS CADDY (CHRIS)
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    Hi everyone,

    After attending the Extreme robots Cheltenham event and helping my brother WILL CADDY complete his first robot Pikey the Unicorn ! and helping him out in the pits i have caught the roboteer bug.

    I have many questions and my brother advised me to check the forum out and sign up. I must say I'm glad i did.

    My name is Chris, I hope to have a feather weight put together and ready to compete in the next Extreme robots tour.

    I have my brother's advise, his you tube channel and build log please check him out here if you are also new to bot building

    There is lots of great info on there and now with the forum i'm sure I can have something put together for the next event.

    Question time !

    - What is the best reasonably priced brushless motor ? Is this a route worth taking or am i better off sticking with the 12v or 18 v RS 550 or RS 755 motor as these are much cheaper ? I would rather something be reliable and last than having to replace a faster more powerful motor every fight.

    - Then as regards to an ESC i would rather not pay over the odds for an ESC that comes from botbits australia, I know they do good stuff and i'm not knocking them but shipping is costly. I know a £30 ESC from hobbyking can be re programmed with simon k firmware but is this hard to do ? Are there any other options to buy pre-programmed ESCs capable of doing forward and reverse for a drive system?

    - Gear boxes something i know very little about. My brother used 18v drills stripped down with 550 motors and drill gear boxes in but both of these components failed and we had to frantically swap them out between fights. I have been lookin into P60 boxes that banebots do and i can source in the UK from robotshop.com which seem to sell alot of banebots gear.
    Are the P60s any good are they reliable do they last ?
    I know they can be used in conjunction with brushed or brushless options by just changing the pinion gear.

    -Wheels ? Is it better to use cheap nylon wheels with a Tyre tread screwed on to them ? OR use a specifically manufactured wheel such as the bane bots ones ?

    Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to hearing from you and making new friends along the way.

    All the best guys

    Chris

  2. #2
    Ocracoke's Avatar
    Team Kaizen

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    Michael
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    Hey there, welcome to the forum! What are you planning to build?

    To try and answer your questions:

    What is the best reasonably priced brushless motor ? Is this a route worth taking or am i better off sticking with the 12v or 18 v RS 550 or RS 755 motor as these are much cheaper ? I would rather something be reliable and last than having to replace a faster more powerful motor every fight.
    For a first build, I'd recommend a 775 motor. In the Featherweight category, they have served me well and are quite robust. In the brushless motor category, I'll defer to folks who run brushless motors in their drive but if it helps, I am having good experiences with the Turnigy Aerodrive units (specifically the 5045 660kv motor).

    Then as regards to an ESC i would rather not pay over the odds for an ESC that comes from botbits australia, I know they do good stuff and i'm not knocking them but shipping is costly. I know a £30 ESC from hobbyking can be re programmed with simon k firmware but is this hard to do ? Are there any other options to buy pre-programmed ESCs capable of doing forward and reverse for a drive system?
    If you are going down the brushed route, I might have recommended a FeatherTwo Dual as made by Rory on here though I don't know their availability.

    Gear boxes something i know very little about. My brother used 18v drills stripped down with 550 motors and drill gear boxes in but both of these components failed and we had to frantically swap them out between fights. I have been lookin into P60 boxes that banebots do and i can source in the UK from robotshop.com which seem to sell alot of banebots gear.
    Are the P60s any good are they reliable do they last ?
    I know they can be used in conjunction with brushed or brushless options by just changing the pinion gear.
    I can't speak for the P60 units but if you went with a 775 motor, you can get a prebuilt Gimson unit for about £50 per drive wheel (https://gimsonrobotics.co.uk/categor...tary-gearmotor). The Honey Badger 2, 3 and even my Middleweight used/uses these but I wouldn't recommend them for the latter weight category. Feathers, definitely. They can be swapped for brushless motors as well.

    -Wheels ? Is it better to use cheap nylon wheels with a Tyre tread screwed on to them ? OR use a specifically manufactured wheel such as the bane bots ones ?
    I know folks who use the Banebot wheels and they are quite good from what I recall, very grippy. I used a set of 1/10 RC wheels and drilled a few mounting holes for the hubs for the Gimson motors above into them. I had concerns about durability but it survived a lot of BIG HITS. Really, the choice is down to you.
    Last edited by Ocracoke; 24th November 2018 at 23:37.
    Team Kaizen

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  3. #3
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    CHAOS CADDY (CHRIS)
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    Hi Michael,

    Big thank you for the fast response. I am planning on building for the time being just a push bot and when i have mastered what is in entailed in that add a weapon later. As regards a weapon i don't really know the spinners fascinate me but its seems to be quite a feat of engineering.

    What would you advise for a first weapon ?

    Do you recommend a 12 or 18v 775 ?

    My brother mentioned the feather twos but i think there is no availabilty.

    I see the gearboxes come with the motor but can i easily buy replacement gear boxes and motors on there own rather than together like this ?

    I like the fact the bane bots wheels are easily mounted to be fair i think i will go down the banebot wheels route.

    Thanks again Michael its been a great help.

    Any other comments and thoughts from other as well would still be greatly appreciated.

    All the best guys

    Chris

  4. #4
    Ocracoke's Avatar
    Team Kaizen

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    Spinners are, by their very nature, dangerous. They are not something I'd recommend a beginner does since the potential for danger is fairly high if not suitably experienced. As others will tell you, building a robot that survives a 3 minute bout is an accomplishment on its own.

    You mentioned you are planning a rambot, so the 18v 775s are worth looking at for the extra pushing power. If you get a Gimson motor as previously linked, they'll happily run off 12 or 18v but just watch out for heat. You, in theory, can get replacement motors but the gearboxes are their own. Contact them directly if you needed a new gearbox but again, from experience, they are easily sturdy enough for the FW class.

    I would have recommended the TZ85A ESCs but they've stopped production of them. I've had success in running a Cytron ESC in my Middleweight and I know they make a smaller version of the 60A ESC I use which is a dual as well (a 30A - https://www.robotshop.com/uk/smartdr...or-driver.html), worth looking that up on Robotshop I think, noting I've not used one of these so cannot be certain of how robust they are.
    Team Kaizen

    AW: Osu, Ikari, Ramu
    BW: Shu! (Build Thread)
    FW: The Honey Badger (Build Thread)
    MW: Kaizen (Build Thread)

  5. #5
    Roboteer

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    Interesting, that thing looks totally different to the ESCs i have previously seen. My brother runs the old Botbitz – 85a v2 Brushed ESCs but the shipping kills it, not only that these ones have now been discontinued and replaced with an 80 A version.

    I came across this thing what are your thoughts ? https://www.robotshop.com/uk/suppo-100a-esc.html

    Is it better to go bigger with an ESC so i can future proof it a bit with it being a 100A. With a higher rated ESC surly Im less likely to cook it and if i upgrade my motors it will still be able to handle it.

    Or am i wrong in thinking this .......!?

    Thanks Chris

  6. #6
    Ocracoke's Avatar
    Team Kaizen

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    That ESC is a brushless ESC (there are three wires on the opposite side to the power wires) which won't work with a bushed motor such as a 775. You need to match the types (normally) when selecting a ESC and motor (bushed motor, brushed ESC for example).
    Team Kaizen

    AW: Osu, Ikari, Ramu
    BW: Shu! (Build Thread)
    FW: The Honey Badger (Build Thread)
    MW: Kaizen (Build Thread)

  7. #7
    Roboteer

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    I thought most ESCs these days are brushless and then i need to modify them by changing and updating the firmware with Simon K

    Am i wrong in thinking this?

    I thought the botbits ESCs were modified brushless ESCs which i suppose is why they are so expensive because botbits have put them through an additional process, then with shipping on top it makes it sooo expensive !!

  8. #8
    Ocracoke's Avatar
    Team Kaizen

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    Most ESCs are indeed Brushless but the SimonK stuff doesn't make it a brushed ESC (least, not to my knowledge and experience in using the SimonK firmware). The BotBitz ESCs do start off life as a brishless ESC and then are reprogrammed to be a brushed ESC. I had hoped to try this myself with a couple of Redbrick 100A ESCs but converting them to brushed is beyond my skillset for the moment (even if that is possible).
    Team Kaizen

    AW: Osu, Ikari, Ramu
    BW: Shu! (Build Thread)
    FW: The Honey Badger (Build Thread)
    MW: Kaizen (Build Thread)

  9. #9
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    Infinite Monkeys Fighting Robots
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    I think the default SimonK firmware takes your single direction brushless ESC and "upgrades" it for something more suitable for combat robotics, adding features like bi-directional control. This is still brushless.

    There is a specific version of SimonK that can be uploaded to the TZ85A ESCs that will add the features but also make it a brushed ESC. Whether it is the same firmware with some options flipped or a completely separate code base I have not looked to check.

    Chris, where in Worcestershire are you?

  10. #10
    Roboteer

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    CHAOS CADDY (CHRIS)
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    Makes sense I have a lot to learn and its hard trying to find the information I need out there. Im a couple of mile form Worcester town centre.

    Why do you ask?

    Thanks for your input mate

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