Robot Wars Series VIII - Week 5 Discussion

[R9000]

Ok guys, biggest spoiler warning ever for this one. Watch it now if you haven't already.


Well, I'm not really sure what to do after this episode other than wave merrily to the rulebook as it flew out the window. I.. so many things happened this time that I still can't quite comprehend it. So ok, let's start back in the first round when things made sense:
Thermidor. I was really stoked to see them come back after so many appearances in previous wars. Sadly it seemed their machine just wasn't up to the standard of today's robots - I didn't see to much in the way of improvements for them, which is a shame. I think they might've fared better if they weren't put with two other spinners, but they were going to have to fight them one way or another. Commiserations to them for going out so early. Pulsar fell foul of Ironside's spinning bar and was counted out - but we'll get to that later, eh. That left an absolutely mangled Chompalot and a near mint Ironside 3 to go through. I was honestly expecting Chompalot to go out for damage at the end, but apparently a judges decision isn't a judges decision if a robot should've been counted out? I'm not sure. The second round was much more clear-cut. Infernal contraption once again failed to impress, sadly, and I don't think I've ever seen their weapon properly spin up enough to do any damage, which is a shame because I like their design. They were half-pushed, half spun into the pit by Beast, good driving on their part. Crazy Coupe 88 was bludgeoned into submission by Dead Metal. It seems you just can't get away with an 'off-the-shelf' bot these days, though you couldn't really before. But it does seem to me you stand a much greater chance of winning now if you have custom-built parts with hi-spec materials. Anyway, Beast and Gabriel made it through with what looked like minimal effort.

The first fight into the head-to-heads, and things started happening. Chompalot, clearly already on life support but resurrected by multiple teams in the pits, played host to our first LiPo fire of the competition due to (what appeared to be) the floor flipper's doing. Shunt's axe can't have helped either. Honestly, I think this episode saw the most action and aggression from the House Robots, all directed towards poor little Chompalot. And in a turn I never would have seen coming from a lightyear away, Pulsar was allowed back into the competition. I would've expected them to just have the three remaining robots carry on after Chompalot's withdrawal, but I guess that's the rules? I don't know. I was thrilled to see Ellis back in the competition though. For the record, I think Chompalot did fantastically for the part of the fight that they did stay alive. They got hold of Gabriel a couple of times, but it seems few robots are tall enough to attack Craig's machine effectively. Beast, meanwhile, had some bad luck in the head-to-heads. I saw very few flips, and their drive was regularly locking up or getting battered by Ironside 3 and Gabriel. I honestly thought they'd do better given Beauty's success as a featherweight, but it seems little armour is much more of a problem for heavyweights. In another act of House Robot aggression, Dead Metal attacked Beast after cease was called, and I'm honestly not sure what to think. I wanted more action from the house robots, but surely it's unfair after cease is called? In another ridiculous turn of events, in the fight between Ironside 3 and Pulsar, a judges decision was called after Ironside pushed an otherwise immobile Pulsar into the pit, while driving in themselves. I... honestly don't know what to say about it, but this is the most potent example of the need for Refbot to count people out, without relying on... some strange retrospective judge's decision? I thought Ironside had it since they pushed Pulsar into the pit at the end of the fight, and as they said, cease was never called and Killalot righted them. Controversial perhaps? I personally think Pulsar commanded most of the fight until they lost drive, and perhaps Beast should've been counted out and cease called. At the end of the day, I feel this was down to poor ruling and lack of firm communication on the show's part, and neither team was to blame. Very sporting of team Ironside to accept the loss so graciously though. Fair play to both teams, I couldn't have made that decision.

Meanwhile, Craig Colliass and Gabriel had been bouncing their way through the competition, due to apparently coming from wibbly wobbly HDPE giraffe world. It honestly was a joy to watch that machine in action, and it did a fair amount more damage than I personally expected, given its weapon. The final came down to Pulsar vs Gabriel, and it was a fantastic one. Again, Pulsar seemed to keep losing drive intermittently until it was knocked back to life by something in the arena. But given the solid design and aggressive weapon of Pulsar however, it seems they did enough damage to Gabriel's gigantic wheels to win overall. I don't think I've ever seen an episode of Robot Wars with as many twists and turns as this one, and I think this might just be my favourite. Also from what I could see, fantastic sportsmanship between the two heat finalists, I don't think I've ever seen two nicer teams. Honestly I can't wait for the Grand Final, and to see who the wildcard competitor is.

By the way Ellis, if you read this, what was going on with Pulsar's drive? It seemed to cut off over and over again, especially in that last fight. Hope you did well in the finals though, I'm really excited.

[bigsi]

I take back what I said about this series compared to the old RW's - that was a complete fix!

Pulsar was undoubtedly a good, innovative robot but to be allowed back in after the first round, followed by a series of judges decisions which went the opposite way to what we expected, sadly, stinks.

Previously when one robot has pushed another into the pit and fallen in themselves, it has been the one which went in the pit first that is out. It was obvious from the start that Pulsar was the one the producers wanted in the semi finals.

Very poor show

[grant_ploughbot]

I can assure you, there was no production preference or interference. I don't think they did the best job of portraying what actually happened in this show, such as making the rules clearer on what happens in those situations. All teams were aware from the start on what happens if a robot is withdrawn from each round and the judges put through the robot that performed the best in its first fight. After that, it was a case of immobilisation. I believe the judges over-ruled production in this one and stated the 10 second immobilisation from Ironside earlier in the fight. To be totally fair this was the only way the fight could have been judged.

[Ellis]

I take back what I said about this series compared to the old RW's - that was a complete fix!

Pulsar was undoubtedly a good, innovative robot but to be allowed back in after the first round, followed by a series of judges decisions which went the opposite way to what we expected, sadly, stinks.

Previously when one robot has pushed another into the pit and fallen in themselves, it has been the one which went in the pit first that is out. It was obvious from the start that Pulsar was the one the producers wanted in the semi finals.

Very poor show

I'm sorry if you think we didn't deserve the wins. Personally, and the irony that I might be biased is not lost, I think the various decisions would have been far more controversial had they been reversed.

More importantly, if the producers wanted to give us an easier road, they definitely wouldn't have awarded full points to Gabriel against Beast (nothing against you here Craig, the points were deserved, just making the association!) and they wouldn't have left us with an entire fight less than everyone else to score points. It feels like you might want the show to be rigged, because you seem to only be absorbing half of what actually was shown.

Believe me, I am fully aware of the drama here. Don't think for a moment that I haven't been apprehensive ever since the event - of all people who should be worried if Pulsar's run was rigged, it's me. And I'm very happy to say, I sincerely don't think it even remotely was. The effort I and my parents put in to keep Pulsar running was very real, and I think anyone at the event can vouch for that.

---

Regardless, I think this episode was excellent. It really shook up the format and everyone I have seen discussing the show agrees it was a real thriller. Fight against Gabriel is possibly my favourite fight (competed in) ever, I can't wait to do it all again!

[grant_ploughbot]

I'm glad you enjoyed this episode - as you say some very unexpected twists and turns.
To clarify a couple of the queries regarding counting out... Ironside was immobile for significantly more than the 10s, and when it ended up in the CPZ we were aware it was over the 10s at that point. Killalot grabbed it in the CPZ and it ended up dropping in its wheels (it's all fair game in the CPZ- 100% not HR or production interference). For whatever reason the end of the gift wasn't called, and I suspect that's because the judges/production hadn't worked out at that point of it was clearly out. The correct decision was made and stuck straight to the rules.

Beast on the other hand wasn't being counted out. Production held a meeting to let teams know that if any wheel is moving that the robots will not be classed as immobile. Both wheels must be stopped before the countdown begins.

[maddox10]

It'ss a show, not a sportsprogram.

And Pulsar has everything going for it if we see Robot Wars as a TV show.
Pulsar looks cool, sounds great and promises a lot of damage.
The team is old school Son and dad, with mom as manager.

[craig_colliass]

Chompy is a great machine but I think the force at the tip is only about 1 tone, 3 at the ram I could be wrong but about that, the structure of Gabriel is designed to take far more than that,
if you watch the program almost immediately they fell into the trap,they grabbed the body of Gabriel, we let them get a good grip then drove them straight into the house robot Dead Metal I think. the plan worked very well, as to grip Gabriel they had to lift the front off the arena floor over 300mm up in the air their wheels were probably off the ground we can push them anywhere we wanted. flippers can't flip crushers can't grip and spinners well we went 3 minuits with both none of the others did that even when they fought each other!! Gabriel

[R9000]

Chompy is a great machine but I think the force at the tip is only about 1 tone, 3 at the ram I could be wrong but about that, the structure of Gabriel is designed to take far more than that,
if you watch the program almost immediately they fell into the trap,they grabbed the body of Gabriel, we let them get a good grip then drove them straight into the house robot Dead Metal I think. the plan worked very well, as to grip Gabriel they had to lift the front off the arena floor over 300mm up in the air their wheels were probably off the ground we can push them anywhere we wanted. flippers can't flip crushers can't grip and spinners well we went 3 minuits with both none of the others did that even when they fought each other!! Gabriel

Gabriel would be unbeatable in an annihilator-style contest.

[Rapidrory]

By the way Ellis, if you read this, what was going on with Pulsar's drive? It seemed to cut off over and over again, especially in that last fight.

We believe the issue was that a big impact to Pulsar would cause the receiver to brown out (possibly a loose connection). The ESCs would then shut down, and for some reason could only be restarted by switching the transmitter on and off. Good thing that Ellis worked this out as fast as he did, though I do wonder if the ESCs would have reset themselves and done it faster had he just left it.

I gave a detailed insight into Pulsar's electronics here.

[R9000]

We believe the issue was that a big impact to Pulsar would cause the receiver to brown out (possibly a loose connection). The ESCs would then shut down, and for some reason could only be restarted by switching the transmitter on and off. Good thing that Ellis worked this out as fast as he did, though I do wonder if the ESCs would have reset themselves and done it faster had he just left it.

I gave a detailed insight into Pulsar's electronics here.

Ah right I see. Wow I didn't know it took all that effort to get Pulsar running, you're a real trooper for that. In any case, expect orders of VESCs when I get to building a heavyweight. I want to try going all-brushless now too.


Incidentally, on seeing that Facebook post, I also saw this. It's interesting to see what different types teams decide to call their pages. Just... looking at Eric there.