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Thread: clarification on rules

  1. #1
    Mouldy's Avatar
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    Two rules Id like clarifying by the FRA if possible;

    "figure of 8 rule" "drive around pit" "drive from one side of arena to the other"

    Which one of the above is the FRA's standard to prove you are still mobile after a fight if its a controversial finish? If a robot enters the arena with only one wheel working and cant demonstrate it can move from one side to the other- should the fight even be taking place?

    Lipo fires during a fight;

    Ill use the following fight as an example just because I was in it;


    After myself and Alan noticed the fire without talking to each-other we instinctively drove to opposite sides of the arena, i stopped my weapon ASAP and Alan tried to put his fire out by firing and venting the weapon as many times as possible... yet the judges looked at us in a way of "what are you doing the fights still going on?"... I'm sure Alan would of continued until LH stopped moving totally, or he got a good hit on me with the axe and stopped 720... and i would of happily continued too.

    So what is the correct action to take during a lipo fire in a full combat fight in a championships, if both drivers are happy to continue to fight until the death?

    This isn't meant to start arguments, id just like it in black and white and put in the rules for next year, as i'm sure it will happen again...

  2. #2
    Garfie489's Avatar
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    On the note of LiPO fires, id just like to make a suggestion for the rules.

    In the case where a robot is on fire (or poses a safety hazard), the instincts of the roboteer wanting to continue and win, and everyone elses health and safety concerns obviously contradict. The robot could go on till the end of the fight, but from others viewpoint its best not to.

    In motor racing they have a black and orange dot flag, which tells the driver to return to the pits to repair that particular damage, from which point they may continue in the race. Could we have a similar rule where an EO or official can declare a match suspended, with the offending robot removed and allowed to replace certain components (ie batteries, but not motors) with identical parts (if available) and then the fight resumes. (obviously other fights may be going on in the meantime).

    How we do this would require discussion - Are the robots placed in Parc Ferme where no work can be done on them, or are they allowed to recharge and regas so on - but i just think its something worth considering, because it was only because Mouldy and Alan effectively agreed a fight to end that it did. Whereas he could have continued and filled the entire arena with smoke, and he shouldnt be punished for that.

    Same actually happened in Defector vs 720 - 720 started smoking (not as much as LH3 by a long way). However if that had developed into alot of smoke, it would be good to be able to suspend the fight and get it out of there ASAP. Below is a video of that fight, and you can see the reaction it gets from the various officials and given the power to suspend the match, then if it had gotten worse it could easily be removed and delt with, without automatically making the said robot forfeit. (i realize 720s problem was motor related which should not be allowed to be replaced, however if it had been something else smoking the result may have been different)



    Note: Relevant bit at 2:25
    Last edited by Garfie489; 4th June 2014 at 20:13.
    My 3 loves - Rugby, Racing, and Robotics.

  3. #3
    Shakey's Avatar
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    I don't see why a battery replacement should be allowed, a component failed. Tough luck. Next time chose a more reliable form of power if you don't want to run that risk. Or ensure your drive and weapon do not have the potential to harm the battery. Damage inflicted onto your own robot is a legitimate cause of loss.

    EDIT: What if the battery connector or link was working loose and one more hit would have disconnected it? Redoing the battery would have fixed that potential stealing away a win from the opponent. Why stop at batterys? If your Dual ESC goes up in smoke, let's repair that! This isn't motor racing, damage isn't collateral, it's primary. No mid battle repairs.
    Last edited by Shakey; 4th June 2014 at 20:42.

  4. #4
    RogueTwoRobots's Avatar
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    No. Any damage sustained during a battle should not be allowed to be repaired simply because the lipo went up in smoke. That's damage sustained and should count as such. If that practice was adopted, it would set a dangerous precedent and people would be wanting to suspend battles to fix damage sustained. If the battery is damaged, it's damaged and shouldn't be allowed to be replaced. I can see where you're coming from but it's a no-go as far as I'm concerned.

    As for continuing the fight, it's not a written rule, but it just seems to be the case that whenever smoke appears, the fight is stopped and judged up until that point (or assumed that the smoking robot has broken down). It basically comes down to the EO and the venue; the fight is usually stopped to get the smoking robot out and avoid a build-up of smoke that could trigger the fire alarms (and a potentially costly auto call-out to the fire brigade). If the arena was completely sealed and had extraction systems, then I guess you could continue the fight if both roboteers wanted to. Never usually been an issue here in the UK though, but might be something worth firming up rules/events-wise in light of the ever-growing number of lipo powered robots.
    Jamie McHarg
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  5. #5
    Mouldy's Avatar
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    of-course the fight shouldn't be stopped and the robot repaired... I just want a clarification from the FRA as to what should happen in the event of a lipo fire with both robots still running... do we carry on fighting until the death... or is the robot on fire automatically classed as knocked out?... LH could of gone on to knock 720 out even with the lipo fire going on inside- its pointy axe could easily go through my top armor and stop 720 dead....if the fight continued for a few more seconds....hence the need for clarification.

  6. #6
    psychostorm's Avatar
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    You could declare the match null & void. That would allow for a rematch with full repairs.
    Ceri Jenkins

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  7. #7
    kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldy View Post
    "figure of 8 rule" "drive around pit" "drive from one side of arena to the other"
    This is covered in the competition regulations under "Close Decisions"
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldy View Post
    If a robot enters the arena with only one wheel working and cant demonstrate it can move from one side to the other- should the fight even be taking place?
    This is a good question and the competition regulations for 2015 will be updated to cover this situation. There will be some further discussion later this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldy View Post
    Lipo fires during a fight
    If the fight cannot continue due to a safety concern the fight is stopped. Should it be possible to continue the fight safely then the match will be continued from the point at which it was stopped. Otherwise a decision would be made based upon the fight up until that point; damage in this case would obviously be a major contributing factor. This is not a common occurrence but if people feel it needs to be covered in the regulations this can be written in for 2015.
    Kane Aston
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  8. #8
    Mouldy's Avatar
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    Thanks Kane, I look forward to the discussion.

    pretty sure that most, if not all EO's would want the fight to stop as soon as a lipo goes up. It would be good to maybe just put something along the lines of it being down to the EO who can then announce what action to take when a fire breaks out in the drivers brief and how it will be judged.

  9. #9
    adz600's Avatar
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    lipo fumes are not healthy in my opinion fire means stop immediately and the fight is over. leaving the opponent who is not on fire the victor as his machine is in full working order. H&S of the marshals and the audience is paramount, one bad accident or even complaint from the public could cause huge insurance issues with the EO'S

  10. #10
    typhoon_driver's Avatar
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    I guess damage already on the machine (such as a single wheel working) should be made clear to the judges before the match.

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